Cross

[Papyrus_dust]

If it weren't for the early Catholic church there would be no church.

Regarding Peter, he was certainly a leader in the church.
Jesus was the founder of His church.
But His church was built by the Apostles.
One of the reasons I trust my faith is because I can trust what the Apostles tell me.

Do you believe the Apostles wrote all of the new testament books?

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you believe the Apostles wrote all of the new testament books?

Huh?
Are you serious?
It's almost one here.
Buona notte.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Huh?
Are you serious?
It's almost one here.
Buona notte.

Very serious. When you have the time.

 

[jasonc]

A single pastor cannot effectively lead more than about 200 people.
If a congregation has 10,000 members, they would need about 50 pastors to effective lead them.
If there were 50 pastors on staff at a church "receiving their living from preaching the gospel" (1Cor 9:14) with an average salary of (pick a number) $50,000 per year plus healthcare insurance for his family (now we're looking at about $65,000/year with payroll taxes) then the pastoral salary budget would be around $3,250,000.
So "pastoring" is reduced to a sing-along followed by a collection and then a lecture on Sunday morning and smaller events Sunday evening and mid week.
And real discipleship gets kicked to the curb and the believers are edified to the fullness of toddlers in "Pull-Ups" in Christ while society goes to hell in a hand-basket for lack of effective Christian influence.

But I digress.......

iakov the fool

Some small churches are like that

 

[GodsGrace]

Very serious. When you have the time.

Hi PD
What's the point of the question?

 

[WIP]

It seems this thread has gone off topic and a lot of this discussion should be taken to another forum. Since the moderators for this forum are not currently online, I'll step in and kindly ask that we get back to topic. If you wish to continue this discussion in its present direction, please start a thread in the appropriate forum.

 

[Roro1972]

The original point of this thread was to learn if different shaped cross are recognized as Christian and to learn which shapes are pagan.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

If we concerned ourselves overmuch with Pagan history and traditions we'd be in a terrible plight just in the name of the days in our calendar.
The cross means something to Christians. I think that is what matters. I agree that the cross is not an idol. Unlike the potential that the bible has in that regard as I've met many a Christian that say they believe in the bible.

I see the cross as a reminder of what it took to save the world from its sins. And what Jesus suffered in order to be that sacrifice. It means something to the Christian then the Christian has every right to wear any cross design they find appealing.
If you want to be satisfied with opinions on this you'll find the topic is as diverse as is the community of Christians. Make your choice, because you would be the one wearing it.
I like the cross pictured in the OP.

 

[Jim Parker]

The original point of this thread was to learn if different shaped cross are recognized as Christian and to learn which shapes are pagan.

Wearing a cross which someone considers to have a "pagan" shape does not reflect on the wearer in any manner.
I don't think it's worth worrying about.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wearing a cross which someone considers to have a "pagan" shape does not reflect on the wearer in any manner.
I don't think it's worth worrying about.

Hi Jim,
You and Papyrus_dust have stated the same opinion.

I have to say that IF a cross had some pagan meaning, I WOULD refrain from wearing it.
I understand your point of view --- we should not let any group "steal" the meaning of the cross.

However, since I do wear mine as a witness and for the reasons Papyrus Dust stated --- as a reminder of what Jesus suffered to redeem us --- I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm wearing it for any other reason and I want all the glory to go to God and not to some weird pagan group.

 

[brujaq]

I like plain simple cross necklace on folks . I have one made with real 1 1/4 x 3/4 '' old hammered heel head iron nails tacked together and bound at the cross with small leather bind, with leather necklace string , it cost about $2 .. It is beautiful, problem is I wear no jewelry and it sits in a box ..

 

[GodsGrace]

I like plain simple cross necklace on folks . I have one made with real 1 1/4 x 3/4 '' old hammered heel head iron nails tacked together and bound at the cross with small leather bind, with leather necklace string , it cost about $2 .. It is beautiful, problem is I wear no jewelry and it sits in a box ..

Wear it !
It can start a conversation...

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Hi Jim,
You and Papyrus_dust have stated the same opinion.

I have to say that IF a cross had some pagan meaning, I WOULD refrain from wearing it.
I understand your point of view --- we should not let any group "steal" the meaning of the cross.

However, since I do wear mine as a witness and for the reasons Papyrus Dust stated --- as a reminder of what Jesus suffered to redeem us --- I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm wearing it for any other reason and I want all the glory to go to God and not to some weird pagan group.

I do not believe Jim nor myself are the only Christians who feel as we do about the cross.
I'd also suggest that , and this is a personal opinion, it is best not to worry what anyone else thinks as to why you wear a cross. If they think it a pagan symbol let them dare ask. And that may then be God's doing. Affording the opportunity to witness to the inquisitive one who presumes and can then be set straight. And perhaps set to go straight toward the narrow road. You could actually lead a soul to find eternal salvation for which the cross means everything. And does not change in that importance due to anyone's contrary belief about it.

Remember, there are atheists who think we're fools when they see us wearing a cross. There are Satanists that feel the same way. Does their opinion mean anything ? No. What should mean something, the only thing, the only opinion that counts, is yours.

"I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm wearing it for any other reason and I want all the glory to go to God and not to some weird pagan group"
You're not able to control what people think. If they think hard enough they may dare to ask about your cross. That's a blessing isn't it.

As for me, I don't worry about what people think. That they do is a positive. That they opine about my personal attire is their prerogative. That their opinion would make me change anything about me? Not a chance. I'm a temple that carries the most holy spirit God within. And made in the image and likeness of God I am living breathing proof he has a sense of humor and is into abstract art.

And I LOVE him for that!

 

[GodsGrace]

I do not believe Jim nor myself are the only Christians who feel as we do about the cross.
I'd also suggest that , and this is a personal opinion, it is best not to worry what anyone else thinks as to why you wear a cross. If they think it a pagan symbol let them dare ask. And that may then be God's doing. Affording the opportunity to witness to the inquisitive one who presumes and can then be set straight. And perhaps set to go straight toward the narrow road. You could actually lead a soul to find eternal salvation for which the cross means everything. And does not change in that importance due to anyone's contrary belief about it.

Remember, there are atheists who think we're fools when they see us wearing a cross. There are Satanists that feel the same way. Does their opinion mean anything ? No. What should mean something, the only thing, the only opinion that counts, is yours.

"I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm wearing it for any other reason and I want all the glory to go to God and not to some weird pagan group"
You're not able to control what people think. If they think hard enough they may dare to ask about your cross. That's a blessing isn't it.

As for me, I don't worry about what people think. That they do is a positive. That they opine about my personal attire is their prerogative. That their opinion would make me change anything about me? Not a chance. I'm a temple that carries the most holy spirit God within. And made in the image and likeness of God I am living breathing proof he has a sense of humor and is into abstract art.

And I LOVE him for that!

Just got here...
I think our conversation wires got crossed.!

I didn't say that one should worry what anyone thinks if they wear a cross or crucifix. I said that I would NOT want to wear one that is a pagan symbol for the reasons I stated.

Besides that, I'm sure you don't mean what your post sounds like...
I DO worry about what people think about my behavior and my attire.
After all, we are witnesses for God, and we should reflect that honor we give Him in our attire and in our behavior and attitude.

 

[Brock]

There are so many different crosses out there for necklace's . What type is or is not suitable for a true Christian to wear? Why does this widen at ends? is this bad?

Doesn't matter what it looks like as long as you're not worshipping it I think you'll be good.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Just got here...
I think our conversation wires got crossed.!

I didn't say that one should worry what anyone thinks if they wear a cross or crucifix. I said that I would NOT want to wear one that is a pagan symbol for the reasons I stated.

Besides that, I'm sure you don't mean what your post sounds like...
I DO worry about what people think about my behavior and my attire.
After all, we are witnesses for God, and we should reflect that honor we give Him in our attire and in our behavior and attitude.

I know what I meant when I wrote it. I don't think you understood what I said.

I'm a Christian woman. I attire myself in that regard. Christians will meet criticism as we all know. Some sisters and brothers even meet with death for being Christian. Due to the public's opinion they are thus worthy of that because they are Christian.

So in fact, you did read me correctly when I said I don't worry about what people think about my , and maybe I should have stated the obvious, Christian behavior and my attire. With so many people in this world prone to opinions I would lose my own identity if I acted in a way , dressed in a way, that comported with opinions about my behavior and dress.

I'm a Christian. I don't worry about critics of that. And those who would inquire about my style of dress that reflects my relationship in eternal salvation in my Lord are welcome to inquire respectfully. And I in turn shall, and indeed have, responded respectfully. The same with inquiries about the cross that hangs about my neck. Usually under my attire because it is not something I concern myself with putting on display. Though it is not something I am ashamed of and hide either.

I hope you understand that better.