Bible Study Curse of the Law...Means What ?

[Jay T]

I'm finding that many who call themselves Christians, fail to understand what the 'Curse of the Law', is.

Perhaps a discussion on the subject is in order, OK ?

 

[Georges]

Start the ball rolling by giving your opinion on the failure to understand...

 

[mutzrein]

Yeah - I agree, I'm all ears & eyes. :o

 

[CarrieY]

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,"

The law is not based on faith, it's based on works.
If your relying on your good behavior to please God, Your in trouble, because the Bible states that without faith you can't please God.
And the Bible states that noone is good, not 1 person.

The Pharisee's lived by the law and Jesus condemmed them.
They all walked around believing they were great because they believed they kept the law, and who was Jesus in conflict with? The Pharisee's
God says that through faith you are saved. Faith that he sent his son to die for our sins. Faith that we can come to God and not feel condemmed because we are lawbreakers.
Would you come to God knowing you are a sinful person, knowing that God detests sin? probably not if you felt you had to follow the law. You'd feel condemmed

I feel that Jesus died for us, so that God's spirit can indwell us and teach us as well, as live through us to be just like him.

 

[Bob10]

The law is not based on faith, it's based on works.

One could say that the Law is based on LOVE. "If you LOVE ME, keep My Commandments (Jn 14:15; Deut. 5:10)


In the middle of giving the Ten Commandments, the LORD says: "......love Me and keep My Commandments (Deut. 5:10; Ex. 20:6).


--------------------------------------


Hebrews
11:28

Through FAITH Moses kept the Passover.



Rev
22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,"

The law is not based on faith, it's based on works.
If your relying on your good behavior to please God, Your in trouble, because the Bible states that without faith you can't please God.
And the Bible states that noone is good, not 1 person.

The Pharisee's lived by the law and Jesus condemmed them.
They all walked around believing they were great because they believed they kept the law, and who was Jesus in conflict with? The Pharisee's
God says that through faith you are saved. Faith that he sent his son to die for our sins. Faith that we can come to God and not feel condemmed because we are lawbreakers.
Would you come to God knowing you are a sinful person, knowing that God detests sin? probably not if you felt you had to follow the law. You'd feel condemmed

I feel that Jesus died for us, so that God's spirit can indwell us and teach us as well, as live through us to be just like him.

The word 'faith' is bandied around so much on these Christian forums that it's almost become a meaningless word ...certainly vague. Would someone mind explaining to me - in plain English without the rhetoric - exactly what faith is and how faith is manifested in the one who claims to possess it?

Is it possible to have 'faith' while not being obedient to God's commands? Thru'out the NT - other than the letters of Paul - Christians are told that their love for Jesus will manifest itself in the keeping of the commandments. Does 'faith' (or the ambiguous scriptures of Paul) somehow counter these scriptures and make them of no effect? No wonder people seeking Jesus are confused. Please ...keep it simple.

 

[Bob10]

Would someone mind explaining to me - in plain English without the rhetoric - exactly what faith is and how faith is manifested in the one who claims to possess it?

http://www.bartleby.com/61/84/F0018400.html - faith, definition

Is it possible to have 'faith' while not being obedient to God's commands?

probably is.


SputnikBoy, reading this article might help clear up some of Paul's ambiguous (confusing sounded) statements.


http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml

 

[Jay T]

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,"

This is one of the Bible verses of Paul's that God has warned people about..... 2 Peter 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Unless one understands the difference, between the Law of Moses, and the 10 Commandments, that Christ wrote out with His own finger on Mt Sinai......one will rest the scriptures, to their own destruction !

 

[Dave...]

The word 'faith' is bandied around so much on these Christian forums that it's almost become a meaningless word ...certainly vague. Would someone mind explaining to me - in plain English without the rhetoric - exactly what faith is and how faith is manifested in the one who claims to possess it?

Is it possible to have 'faith' while not being obedient to God's commands? Thru'out the NT - other than the letters of Paul - Christians are told that their love for Jesus will manifest itself in the keeping of the commandments. Does 'faith' (or the ambiguous scriptures of Paul) somehow counter these scriptures and make them of no effect? No wonder people seeking Jesus are confused. Please ...keep it simple.

That is the problem today. A true faith will be witnessed by works, but i've noticed that many people today have somehow merged faith and works together under the title of "Faith" for justification, and as a result have fallen prey to a works based salvation.

 

[CarrieY]

definition of faith biblicalhttp://dictionary.reference.com/

Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true
(Phil. 1:27; 2 Thess. 2:13). Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and
therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of
faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests. Faith is the result
of teaching (Rom. 10:14-17). Knowledge is an essential element in all faith,
and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent to faith (John 10:38; 1 John 2:3).
Yet the two are distinguished in this respect, that faith includes in it
assent, which is an act of the will in addition to the act of the
understanding. Assent to the truth is of the essence of faith, and the ultimate
ground on which our assent to any revealed truth rests is the veracity of God.
Historical faith is the apprehension of and assent to certain statements which
are regarded as mere facts of history. Temporary faith is that state of mind
which is awakened in men (e.g., Felix) by the exhibition of the truth and by
the influence of religious sympathy, or by what is sometimes styled the common
operation of the Holy Spirit. Saving faith is so called because it has eternal
life inseparably connected with it. It cannot be better defined than in the
words of the Assembly's Shorter Catechism: "Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving
grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is
offered to us in the gospel." The object of saving faith is the whole revealed
Word of God. Faith accepts and believes it as the very truth most sure. But the
special act of faith which unites to Christ has as its object the person and the
work of the Lord Jesus Christ (John 7:38; Acts 16:31). This is the specific act
of faith by which a sinner is justified before God (Rom. 3:22, 25; Gal. 2:16;
Phil. 3:9; John 3:16-36; Acts 10:43; 16:31). In this act of faith the believer
appropriates and rests on Christ alone as Mediator in all his offices. This
assent to or belief in the truth received upon the divine testimony has always
associated with it a deep sense of sin, a distinct view of Christ, a consenting
will, and a loving heart, together with a reliance on, a trusting in, or resting
in Christ. It is that state of mind in which a poor sinner, conscious of his
sin, flees from his guilty self to Christ his Saviour, and rolls over the
burden of all his sins on him. It consists chiefly, not in the assent given to
the testimony of God in his Word, but in embracing with fiducial reliance and
trust the one and only Saviour whom God reveals. This trust and reliance is of
the essence of faith. By faith the believer directly and immediately
appropriates Christ as his own. Faith in its direct act makes Christ ours. It
is not a work which God graciously accepts instead of perfect obedience, but is
only the hand by which we take hold of the person and work of our Redeemer as
the only ground of our salvation. Saving faith is a moral act, as it proceeds
from a renewed will, and a renewed will is necessary to believing assent to the
truth of God (1 Cor. 2:14; 2 Cor. 4:4). Faith, therefore, has its seat in the
moral part of our nature fully as much as in the intellectual. The mind must
first be enlightened by divine teaching (John 6:44; Acts 13:48; 2 Cor. 4:6;
Eph. 1:17, 18) before it can discern the things of the Spirit. Faith is
necessary to our salvation (Mark 16:16), not because there is any merit in it,
but simply because it is the sinner's taking the place assigned him by God, his
falling in with what God is doing. The warrant or ground of faith is the divine
testimony, not the reasonableness of what God says, but the simple fact that he
says it. Faith rests immediately on, "Thus saith the Lord." But in order to this
faith the veracity, sincerity, and truth of God must be owned and appreciated,
together with his unchangeableness. God's word encourages and emboldens the
sinner personally to transact with Christ as God's gift, to close with him,
embrace him, give himself to Christ, and take Christ as his. That word comes
with power, for it is the word of God who has revealed himself in his works,
and especially in the cross. God is to be believed for his word's sake, but
also for his name's sake. Faith in Christ secures for the believer freedom from
condemnation, or justification before God; a participation in the life that is
in Christ, the divine life (John 14:19; Rom. 6:4-10; Eph. 4:15,16, etc.);
"peace with God" (Rom. 5:1); and sanctification (Acts 26:18; Gal. 5:6; Acts
15:9). All who thus believe in Christ will certainly be saved (John 6:37, 40;
10:27, 28; Rom. 8:1). The faith=the gospel (Acts 6:7; Rom. 1:5; Gal. 1:23; 1
Tim. 3:9; Jude 1:3).



Carrie

:smt060

 

[CarrieY]

That was long i'm sorry. :o


To me, this seems like the wrong place for any newer christians to learn,
Sometimes you can't always type exactly what you want or in the way you want to say it. And with everyone having their own opinions here your likely to get even more confused than what you were to begin with. And angry.

I'd try praying to God to help you understand what your reading and make it real to you before comming to one of these forums. You should look to God and not man. This is ok for some, as they don't get so easily confused or believe everything thay read.

You live by faith everyday in some way. By faith you learn that touching fire of some sort your going to get burned (stove) so you don't touch it.
You drive everyday by Faith, You just get in and drive, you don't doubt anything really, (unless your car's sick)

I heard a great saying not to long ago. We are Fisherman not of fish but of men. We catch em and Jesus cleans em up!!

Does that mean you just live anyway you want? of course not,
I believe Jesus teaches you. Do i have to follow the Law of Moses to have Jesus? Do i have to follow the 10 commandments to have Jesus?
In time that all comes i believe. not 1 person is made perfect in a instant till you get to heaven (i hope)
There isn't anything that you can do to earn God's love (salvation)
Works comes through Faith, with the faith in Jesus, and in the hope of eternal life you reach out to do good things. Jesus changes your heart through the Holy Spirit and you find you want more of Jesus and even more of Jesus.

They work with each other faith and works.
but only faith can get you Jesus and eternal life, works comes along with it.
You do it (works) because your told to. you won't earn favor with God on doing great stuff for other people alone. You can never tell God how great you are, or were. he already knows .
He writes his commandments on your heart, you have a basic knowledge of right or wrong. you can have faith and still do what's wrong. but i wouldn't recommend it.

Faith with works is like me believing what the Bible says and living it , as best as I can.
Faith with works is me typing to you here, and reminding people in my life of what God says. it's automatic most times

Carrie

:silly:

 

[Bob10]

the curse of the law is death.

 

[CarrieY]

That is the problem today. A true faith will be witnessed by works, but i've noticed that many people today have somehow merged faith and works together under the title of "Faith" for justification, and as a result have fallen prey to a works based salvation.

How can you produce works without faith?
You can't. If your doing a work of some type your believing in something. It dosen't even have to be a Godly faith or a Godly work. All your works are done thru faith.
Faith comes through hearing. If someone tells me or i see that throwing Gas on a fire will make it worse, you remember and believe not to do it. believe it or not that is living through faith.

Carrie

:smt060

 

[SputnikBoy]

The word 'faith' is bandied around so much on these Christian forums that it's almost become a meaningless word ...certainly vague. Would someone mind explaining to me - in plain English without the rhetoric - exactly what faith is and how faith is manifested in the one who claims to possess it?

Is it possible to have 'faith' while not being obedient to God's commands? Thru'out the NT - other than the letters of Paul - Christians are told that their love for Jesus will manifest itself in the keeping of the commandments. Does 'faith' (or the ambiguous scriptures of Paul) somehow counter these scriptures and make them of no effect? No wonder people seeking Jesus are confused. Please ...keep it simple.

That is the problem today. A true faith will be witnessed by works, but i've noticed that many people today have somehow merged faith and works together under the title of "Faith" for justification, and as a result have fallen prey to a works based salvation.

I'm not sure what you mean, Dave. Is it the 4th-command that you're referring to? Other than those who 'obviously' practice the 4th command - remembering the Sabbath on a weekly basis - how can one even determine who might be seen to be 'working' their way to heaven? I mean ...Is one ‘seen’ to be ‘working their way to heaven’ by not having any other gods, not murdering, not stealing, not lying, not committing adultery, etc.? Can any of these commands be 'over done'?

Promoting and following ANY of the Ten Commandments should not be a problem (burdensome) for any Christian. I just don’t understand where one might have fallen prey to a works based salvation by their keeping of the Ten Commandments …INCLUDING the 4th! :fadein:

 

[mutzrein]

The word 'faith' is bandied around so much on these Christian forums that it's almost become a meaningless word ...certainly vague. Would someone mind explaining to me - in plain English without the rhetoric - exactly what faith is and how faith is manifested in the one who claims to possess it?

Is it possible to have 'faith' while not being obedient to God's commands? Thru'out the NT - other than the letters of Paul - Christians are told that their love for Jesus will manifest itself in the keeping of the commandments. Does 'faith' (or the ambiguous scriptures of Paul) somehow counter these scriptures and make them of no effect? No wonder people seeking Jesus are confused. Please ...keep it simple.

One day a child of mine asked me, “Dad, why are we so poor?†I said, “What makes you think we are poor?†And he told me of all the things others he knew, did and had. So I said to him, “Son, when you go bed at night you don’t have to worry about whether you’ll be warm and safe in your bed. It’s already provided for you. When you wake up in the morning, you don’t have to worry about whether there will be breakfast for you. It’s already provided. The clothes you wear, your food, your schooling, the home you live in and the security of a father that loves you. They are all yours. You have everything you need. “And,†I said, “this is the same relationship I have with my heavenly father. As I walk in the provision of his love every day I know that all of my needs have already been met. And yours are too.â€Â

And this is what faith is. We don’t have to worry about anything because we know that while we walk in the provision of a loving heavenly Father, whatever the circumstance, He cares and will provide for His own. And so our lives become a walk of faith. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to worry. We just need to dwell in Him. And this is the righteousness that we have in Christ. To those who are His son’s and daughters, His provision has already been made.

By Gods grace, through Christ alone, we have been born into His family as sons and heirs of the living God. And by reason of our relationship to Him, the gift of faith enables us to dwell in His provision day by day. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to be anxious for anything because we know God will, rather, has already provided. And this is the inheritance we have through Christ. It is our confidence that the righteousness that was imputed to Abraham because he believed God and trusted in His provision, is the same righteousness imputed to us by faith because it is inherent in any child who trusts in the provision of all things from his father.

So, faith is not an act of the will or even a state of mind. It is position of implicit trust. And when this is so, we walk as Jesus walked – doing the will of our Father in heaven.

 

[John the Baptist]

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,"

The law is not based on faith, it's based on works.
If your relying on your good behavior to please God, Your in trouble, because the Bible states that without faith you can't please God.
And the Bible states that noone is good, not 1 person.

The Pharisee's lived by the law and Jesus condemmed them.
They all walked around believing they were great because they believed they kept the law, and who was Jesus in conflict with? The Pharisee's
God says that through faith you are saved. Faith that he sent his son to die for our sins. Faith that we can come to God and not feel condemmed because we are lawbreakers.
Would you come to God knowing you are a sinful person, knowing that God detests sin? probably not if you felt you had to follow the law. You'd feel condemmed

I feel that Jesus died for us, so that God's spirit can indwell us and teach us as well, as live through us to be just like him.

******
John here:
What law are you talking about? You are right about the Law that Moses wrote (in a book Deut. 31)that were added because of sin. Gal. 3:19

But you are off about the Everlasting Covenant that God alone wrote! Hebrews 13:20 If that is the Law that you are talking about?

Moses law's were called a curse. Yet they mostly pertained to the earthly sanctuary service with details to follow which was to be done away with when Christ came & died. (no more need for them)

Still, there was a Vail that separated the Holy Place & the Most Holy Place that went rent when Christ died, making the way into the Most Holy Place in heaven! And the Ten Commandment Eternal Covenant is still there inside the Ark in Heavens Throne room. See Revelation 11:19, notice the verse before it! Revelation 11:18 The time that the dead are to be judged. By what RECORD BOOK? See Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 & James 2:8-12, try the K.J. on this one! :fadein:

No: The Covenant of the Godhead are as sacred as their self! It IS CHRISTS LETTER EPISTLE! 2 Corinthians 3:3 & Hebrews 10:15-16. Also read Psalm 19:7-13 Notice verse 13 in particulsr also.

 

[Bob10]

What law are you talking about? You are right about the Law that Moses wrote (in a book Deut. 31)that were added because of sin. Gal. 3:19

Yes. God through Moses added blood sacrifice because of sin.

Burnt offerings and sacrifices were added because of transgressions (a law was already being broken). Burnt offerings and sacrifices (the BLOOD of bulls and goats) was our temporary SCHOOLMASTER.

"For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: But this thing I commanded them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people......" - Jeremiah 7:22-23.


Hebrews 10 talks about this Law of SACRIFICES being a mere shadow of Jesus' sacrifice. The blood of bulls and goats could NOT take away sin. The law of animal sacrifices was temporary till Christ's sacrifice became the ultimate BLOOD sacrifice.

Moses law's were called a curse.

OUCH !!

DOUBLE OUCH !!


PAUL:

Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing?

For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.

If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?

1 Corinthians 9:8 - 11

 

[Georges]

Galatians 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law,"

The law is not based on faith, it's based on works.

James...argues opposite of you....

If your relying on your good behavior to please God, Your in trouble, because the Bible states that without faith you can't please God.

That's not true...God expects good behavior....and is pleased by good behavior.

And the Bible states that noone is good, not 1 person.

Thus the need for Messiah to get us on track and show us how to live righteously.

The Pharisee's lived by the law and Jesus condemmed them.

Jesus didn't condemn them for living by the Law...he condemned the "Man Made Law" that surrounded Torah Law....

They all walked around believing they were great because they believed they kept the law, and who was Jesus in conflict with?

Yes they did....the Pharisee's in general were to busy keeping their man made law and not observing Torah law as Jesus pointed out.

God says that through faith you are saved. Faith that he sent his son to die for our sins. Faith that we can come to God and not feel condemmed because we are lawbreakers.

Exactly what Judaism teaches....we are all lawbreakers...and are forgiven.

Would you come to God knowing you are a sinful person, knowing that God detests sin? probably not if you felt you had to follow the law. You'd feel condemmed

Falling into the Paulinist propaganda "Law is death trap". To the Jew it is a Joy to observe the Law....not a death sentence.

I feel that Jesus died for us, so that God's spirit can indwell us and teach us as well, as live through us to be just like him.

Be just like him....what does that mean....he observed "The Law"....

 

[Jay T]

The law is not based on faith, it's based on works.

Let's ee now.......
Works, usually involve actions, correct ?

"Thou shalt not commit adultery".....if there is no action, where is the works ?

"Thou shalt not steal"......If one does not steal, where is the works ?

NOW THE BIGGIE !
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

OK then, where is works, involved ....in rest ?