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David Copperfield

Karl said:
Thanks for explaining Copperfield's levitation trick, but if it's true that is kid's play.

Okay, now I understand what you are saying, so then everyone saw him climb onto the platform, ...what's the point of that, not arguing, just questioning, ...if you claim to be levitating and everyone sees you climb on and sit down, ...what's the point?

I can see how that can be done, you set up before dawn with no one around and wait 'til dark, with no one around to climb down (I'll bet he fasted a lot), ......but I said our doctor had film of them sitting on the ground in the lotus position, the hands on the knees and then levitating up and transporting themselves wherever they wanted to go, across the market place and even out of sight, ...no hidden platform there.

Okay, I wasn't going to say this, but it's pertinent to the discussion, the doctor filmed these men, not in populous cities, but out in the secluded jungle villages, he also filmed a living woman with six arms (remember he's a doctor), the Indians worship a supposedly mythical goddess of liberation named Kali, that was the reason for his trip, to see if she was real, ...and she was alive.

There are documented births of boys and girls being born in India in the last 15 years with multiple arms and legs, ........Nephilium???

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Gen 6:4

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat 24:37
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Most magic is chidlishly simple once you know how it's done.

I don't know what's the point. You'll have to ask them. The illusion does involve visible set-up and take-down. I'll bet that bowl still gets filled up.

You can't submit as proof something someone "said" they filmed. Have you seen the film, show it to us? But since you ask, the Masked Magician to the rescue...


You're invoking the Nephilum? Uh...no comment there.
 
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KevinK said:
Most magic is chidlishly simple once you know how it's done.

I don't know what's the point. You'll have to ask them. The illusion does involve visible set-up and take-down. I'll bet that bowl still gets filled up.

You can't submit as proof something someone "said" they filmed. Have you seen the film? Can you show it to us? But since you ask, the Masked Magician to the rescue...


You're invoking the Nephilum? Uh...no comment there.
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He offered to show me the film, but I wasn't really interested, ...but even more, why would he offer if he didn't have them, and on top of that why would he lie?

I've already said I believe what you say about magic tricks being able to be explained and I appreciate your explanations, even though I'm not really interested in magic, ...what I don't understand is you reluctance to believe the Word about the signs, miracles and lying wonders performed by the power of satan in the end times which we are living in today, ...that's all I'm saying. :horse
 
Karl said:
I'm not really interested in magic,
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I'm not either. When I watch those videos I'm not watching the magician, I'm watching whats taking place around him. It doesn't matter if the magic is real. What's important to the magician is that people believe it's real. I believe all these street magicians are the forerunners of all the false Christs and false prophets that are predicted to come showing signs and wonders. They're getting people ready for what's coming. They're preparing the world for the entrance of the man of sin.

.
 
Karl said:
He offered to show me the film, but I wasn't really interested, ...but even more, why would he offer if he didn't have them, and on top of that why would he lie?

I've already said I believe what you say about magic tricks being able to be explained and I appreciate your explanations, even though I'm not really interested in magic, ...what I don't understand is you reluctance to believe the Word about the signs, miracles and lying wonders performed by the power of satan in the end times which we are living in today, ...that's all I'm saying. :horse
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I'm not reluctant to believe those things- when did I say that? Quite the contrary, I'm very receptive to signs that we are living in the Final Days. I'm making a very simple statement about entertainment magic- that is all.

I also never said your physician friend was lying. I said you can't submit as proof film evidence that we cannot directly examine. For example, he may have said there were no wires. How do we know that? Maybe the camera couldn't see the wires- just as the video with the Masked Magician demonstrates.

I know you didn't mean to throw up straw man arguments, and actually appreciate that you're being genuine. But you're over-interpreting some of the things I'm saying.

As far as magic, I am not specifically interested in magic per se, I am drawn to mysteries of any kind. That is one of the reasons I became a scientist. I am also fascinated by spiritual, historical, technological, scientific, and psychological mysteries. It's because I see the hand of God in all these things, and I think we were meant to explore such things.
 
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KevinK said:
He may be invoking demons, and they may be responding, but is that the basis for the physical illusions? Edward, what do you think?
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I think, sure they're demons. But their game is play it clean and leave you wondering how they did it and at the same time leave you feeling as if they don't really invoke demons so it's ok. I bet they even have a cover story and could demonstrate how it was done with no dark forces if asked.

Is it just me, or is most people having trouble believing in demons?
 
We were watching Tahiti Quest on TV last night Kevin, it's kinda like Survivors, and it jogged my memory of an event that happened back in '03, a pastor from Hawaii brought a short term missionary group here for a few years and this time there was a family that came with him and the father was a professional magician, he put on a magic show for the people and he was very good (still don't understand the relevance of that with the Gospel) and astonishing to me the locals were bored, many either started talking to one another or actually walked out, then while watching the show last night it dawned on me, because there is a warlock that explains Tahitian culture to the participants on every episode, the reason the locals walked out on the magician was because they were so well acquainted with the real thing, the invoking of their gods (we know they are demons) into most of their activities is so deeply ingrained in their society and culture they spotted the phoney immediately, it's a daily part of their lives, on television, in church, at births, weddings, funerals, in house warmings, in everything.

Which caused me to question how did they know the difference and then I remembered from personal experience, when demons are active there is a darkness an obscurity present, it's cold, and there can be a foul odor, so since you like to examine things I have given you the means to test the magicians or illusionists if you so desire, if you ever come across these signs then I highly suggest you do as I do and leave, ...a wise mans see danger and hides himself .
 
Edward said:
I think, sure they're demons. But their game is play it clean and leave you wondering how they did it and at the same time leave you feeling as if they don't really invoke demons so it's ok. I bet they even have a cover story and could demonstrate how it was done with no dark forces if asked.

Is it just me, or is most people having trouble believing in demons?
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I completely believe in demons. I just don't think Copperfield is using them to accomplish the tricks. He may be channeling them for psychological support, but that is all.
 
Karl said:
We were watching Tahiti Quest on TV last night Kevin, it's kinda like Survivors, and it jogged my memory of an event that happened back in '03, a pastor from Hawaii brought a short term missionary group here for a few years and this time there was a family that came with him and the father was a professional magician, he put on a magic show for the people and he was very good (still don't understand the relevance of that with the Gospel) and astonishing to me the locals were bored, many either started talking to one another or actually walked out, then while watching the show last night it dawned on me, because there is a warlock that explains Tahitian culture to the participants on every episode, the reason the locals walked out on the magician was because they were so well acquainted with the real thing, the invoking of their gods (we know they are demons) into most of their activities is so deeply ingrained in their society and culture they spotted the phoney immediately, it's a daily part of their lives, on television, in church, at births, weddings, funerals, in house warmings, in everything.

Which caused me to question how did they know the difference and then I remembered from personal experience, when demons are active there is a darkness an obscurity present, it's cold, and there can be a foul odor, so since you like to examine things I have given you the means to test the magicians or illusionists if you so desire, if you ever come across these signs then I highly suggest you do as I do and leave, ...a wise mans see danger and hides himself .
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Island magic is a whole different matter. I am familiar with Hawaiian magic, both my parents are from there. Of course there may be crossover between real magic and entertainment magic. Demons can be invoked during any activity.
 
KevinK said:
Island magic is a whole different matter. I am familiar with Hawaiian magic, both my parents are from there. Of course there may be crossover between real magic and entertainment magic. Demons can be invoked during any activity.
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Bro, do you think there is any difference between island magic and mainland magic?

Also, I'll let you go first and explain the fish magic scientifically and then I'll explain, in detail from the Word and using physics (hey, it's the weekend, Ive got the time), okay?
 
Karl said:
Bro, do you think there is any difference between island magic and mainland magic?

Also, I'll let you go first and explain the fish magic scientifically and then I'll explain, in detail from the Word and using physics (hey, it's the weekend, Ive got the time), okay?
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The differentiation is between real magic and entertainment magic, not geography.

Karl bro, if you really think Dynamo can make fish magically fall from a bucket, we have nothing further to talk about. I'm not saying that in a mean way, it's just that we're on completely different pages.
 
OTOH, it is the weekend, so what the heck. You guys are making this too easy.

Yes?

Fancy editing and fishy buckets.
 
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KevinK said:
The differentiation is between real magic and entertainment magic, not geography.

Karl bro, if you really think Dynamo can make fish magically fall from a bucket, we have nothing further to talk about. I'm not saying that in a mean way, it's just that we're on completely different pages.
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Lol, we've come full circle bro, so then are you saying there wasn't any fish falling from the bucket (I take it you can't explain it), it was the people that were deceived into thinking they saw fish, ......isn't that what I said about the Copperfield's disappearing jet many pages ago?

Okay, here's the Biblical explanation for the fish magic, first the references:

1. 2 Ki 6:17, Lk 2:10, Acts 5:19, 12:15, Heb 13:2
2. Mt 18:20, Eph 3:18
3. Dt 31:6, Jos 1:5, Heb 13:5

Explanations:

1. Biblical; Angels and demons can either be seen or are invisible.
Physical; The atom has a nucleus comprised of protons with electrons that circle around it, if we were to blow up the nucleus to the size of a basketball on the west coast the closest electron would be on the east coast, ...that means there is lots of empty space in atoms, that means all of our physical creation made up of atomic matter is mostly empty space.
2. Biblical; Jesus is physically sitting on the right side of His Father's throne in Heaven, yet now limited to a human body can be in our midst, that is, two places at the same time,
Physical; Paul names 4 physical dimensions, we live in a fifth, time and NASA has discover 5 other dimensions making a total of ten dimensions surrounding us, or we are living in, whether seen or unseen.
3. Biblical; Jesus promised us He would never leave us or forsake us.
Physical; Since Jesus is now limited to a human body and can not be in two places at once, then to keep His word and promise He is in a dimension that is in the empty space in our bodies.

Explanation of the fish magic, demons live in an invisible dimension with the angels Dan 10:13, 20, the demon gathers fish from our physical dimension, takes them into the invisible dimension and then causes them to reappear in our physical dimension.

Whether it fish, coins, apples, ...what ever, which explains Jannes and Jambres magic with Moses, they can take from our dimension and make it reappear elsewhere, but the can not create, which explains why they could not create (change the molecular structure, aw-saw' in the Hebrew) lice from dust, hence their confession of it being the Finger of God, .....now, take that info and plug it into what Paul was teaching about false teaching 2 Tim 3 and we find false teaching can not create a Holy, Sanctified life style within us or change (the word is metamorphose) us into the image of Jesus Christ, ...and that's one way we know it's false.
 
*sigh* C'mon, do I really have to close this thread?
It's not any one person, but this conversation is just getting too personal and a cool-down period is needed. This is the lounge, relax a little.
 
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