Dead Sea Scrolls

[Susannah]

I was banned from another Christian forum for bringing up the topic of Gnosticism so I changed the title of this thread to "Dead Sea Scrolls. LOL

I want to start a discussion but not a debate. Only God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit know the truth and if there was only one truth the different translations of the Bible would not sometimes contradict themselves. There, I have dropped a bomb already.

I am fascinated by the gospels [good news] that came out of the Scrolls. They are more like the gospel of John which, in my opinion, is a little more metaphysical than the gospel narratives. As a woman, I also like their appreciation of the feminine being equal to the masculine.

What do you think?

Ok, this is enough to get this thread going. Remember to state your opinion but do not throw out a judgment or mandate. If you need to be right go to another thread and also read the scriptures again. Honoring another person's opinion, even though it differs from yours, is an act of love and we all know how Jesus felt about love. It was the GREATEST commandment.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

From the few things I've read about the Dead Sea scrolls, I've found that there were a lot of scrolls discovered and a lot of information to go over with them. Enough that I don't think I could study the scrolls without being overwhelmed.

I'm glad the scrolls were discovered, and that the scrolls have almost all of the books of the bible in them (at least fragments of them) and that the scrolls have other information of the times they were written. Stuff that aren't religous but give insight about the life and the times.

However, though I'm glad for that extra information, I'm happy with just the bible. I know the bible is reliable and I can study that on my own. The scrolls sometimes being fragments and having to be translated, sounds a bit overwhelming.

All that said, Susannah, you said you're fascinated by the good news gospels in the scrolls. What were these? Are they different gospels then Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John? Or did they contain those also?

(There are other stories about Jesus that have been around that I don't believe, like the gospel of Thomas, that are just there to add confusion and nothing is true in them. So I am hesitant with other gospels. Enough to be intreasted and skeptical at the same time).

 

[Susannah]

I am not an expert which is why I started the thread. The gospel of Mary caught my attention with the passage below . . . to me it indicates that the Mary they refer to is Magdalene and that she was a confidante of Jesus . . . My name sake Susannah was a follower of Jesus also.

"As the narrative opens, the Savior is engaged in dialogue with his disciples, answering their questions on the nature of matter and the nature of sin. At the end of the discussion, the Savior departs leaving the disciples distraught and anxious. According to the story, Mary speaks up with words of comfort and encouragement. Then Peter asks Mary to share with them any special teaching she received from the Savior, “Peter said to Mary, ‘Sister, we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of the women. Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember—which you know (but) we do not, nor have we heard them.’” Mary responds to Peter’s request by recounting a conversation she had with the Savior about visions."

I just want to believe that even women back then did not just follow the men around but contributed the way we do now. It is important to me because it sets a precedent for women today in what still seems liks a patriarchal religion.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I am not an expert which is why I started the thread. The gospel of Mary caught my attention with the passage below . . . to me it indicates that the Mary they refer to is Magdalene and that she was a confidante of Jesus . . . My name sake Susannah was a follower of Jesus also.

"As the narrative opens, the Savior is engaged in dialogue with his disciples, answering their questions on the nature of matter and the nature of sin. At the end of the discussion, the Savior departs leaving the disciples distraught and anxious. According to the story, Mary speaks up with words of comfort and encouragement. Then Peter asks Mary to share with them any special teaching she received from the Savior, “Peter said to Mary, ‘Sister, we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of the women. Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember—which you know (but) we do not, nor have we heard them.’” Mary responds to Peter’s request by recounting a conversation she had with the Savior about visions."

I just want to believe that even women back then did not just follow the men around but contributed the way we do now. It is important to me because it sets a precedent for women today in what still seems liks a patriarchal religion.

When I googled information about the gospel of Mary, the summery and the information say that there are sections missing from the gospel, and many of the sources point of why this and other gnostic gospels are not real gospels.

That was what I found. I don't have a strong opinion about the gospel of Mary, to either accept it or reject it, but also not a strong sence to rely on it either.

Regardless of that though, there are some things I've heard about the women in the early church, or about the teaching in the early church.

•In a few letters Paul writes, he makes special mention to some women in the church. (Found most of this from https://cbmw.org/2000/06/06/women-in-the-pauline-mission/ ). Although there isn't much information about the women, the fact that Paul names them in greeting, or in saying how much they've done, talks about how some women were in the early church. For reference to look them up, there is
-Chloe in 1 Corenthians 1:11.
-Priscilla in 1 Corinthians 16, Romans 16, Acts 18' and 2 Timothy 4.
-Phoebe in Romans 16
-Euodia and Syntyche in Philemon 4
-and a few women in the closing portion of Colossians (Colossians 4)

•a second thing to consider is that there are teachings on women in the church. One was that in Jesus there is no male or female, slave or master. And others that contributed to what roles women had in marriage and in the church. (It might have been said for women to remain quite in church gatherings out of keeping order in those gatherings, not to remove women from having a place in the church).

•a third thing I remember reading is that in Acts when Paul was going back to Jerusalem, some women with prophetic visits ions warned Paul of what was going to happen if he went back to Jerusalem.

I just wanted to give you this information so you can know that women were in the early church and worth mentioning. And while I don't have a strong feeling for the gospel of Mary, there are thinks in the bible about women being part of the life and ministry. At least I hope that helps your thoughts without having to look at other sources to try and make the bible say more then it does.

There was also a woman Judge in the old testament. The book of Ester in the Old Testament is also about a women who works to save the Israelites from an declaration of killing Isrealites in another kingdom. And in the Gospels when Jesus was reserected I think the women who went to visit the tomb were the first witnesses to see Jesus after he rose again.

 

[Susannah]

Thank you for this. It is very kind of you to do the research. This information is very reassuring. ❤

 

[JohnDB]

I read where you mentioned that Christianity is a patriarchal religion...
The concepts and symbolism of a Patriarch who redeems his family members is repeated throughout the whole Bible. The scriptures are full of stories about those who did well and those who didn't.

The concept is basically that the Patriarchs cared for and insured that no family member was ever marginalized or lost. Even if they got themselves in trouble for bad choices. Hosea had to buy his wife out of the slave market auction.
There's a story about a group of women who went to Moses to get a share of land because they had no Patriarch...and God became their Patriarch. And considering that was a pillar of fire at the time... everyone was a bit cautious when dealing with those women.

A Patriarch was a person who looked out for everyone, settled disputes, made sure no one was lost, everyone got fed, cared for, even loved...even when it was a crowd of people.
That's why we love that song: "I left the 99 for the one, and you're the one"

People tend to view these gender roles as if it was just like the old sitcom Archie Bunker. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The Patriarch was not a bumbling idiot who marginalized everyone in his care. There were remedies for such behavior that were often permanent and violent.

The Bible we have today is the most accurate in history. We have manuscripts (including the dead sea scrolls, masoretic texts, siainaiticus, Egyptian, Alexandria, and Latin) which are thousands of years old. Put together collectively they actually are able to tell which word was accurate and which was a mistake.
But even though mistakes were made with hand transcribing...NO SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES are found between the various texts. They are virtually the same.

The reason for the various translations is mostly due to money. Translating and printing cost money. Everyone is due their nickel for their work. But some religious denominations want to do their own. (Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, Reformed, and etc) to help promote their various religious beliefs.
They all create their translations from a collected distilled version of the original manuscripts that is the most accurate in history except for the autographs themselves.

And considering the history and wars that have been fought over this collection of 66 books, letters, and songs written over a span of 1500 years plus...I can get an honestly accurate and readable copy at Walmart for $20. I can even download copies for free into my phone.

 

[Susannah]

I appreciate all this information. I was a single parent so I'm used to a matriarchal household. This has probably influenced my feelings about a male-dominated religion. There are still factions within the Christian organization that don't allow women to be pastors. That's one of the reasons I left one particular Church. But this is a very complicated issue. I don't want to get stuck on the whole gender issue. To me Jesus is everything. I don't need to distinguish between male and female. I'm just very fond of masculine and feminine personality traits. The maternal and the paternal feelings the parents have and the different roles they play in a child's life. As children of God we both. To me God is wisdom and more. He's a strong father figure.And the Holy Spirit is the Comforter like my mother was. I think I have found my place in the scheme of things as a liberal Christian. So I'm content for now. ❤

 

[Prycejosh1987]

I want to start a discussion but not a debate. Only God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit know the truth and if there was only one truth the different translations of the Bible would not sometimes contradict themselves. There, I have dropped a bomb already.

Its true, The Triune God knows everything, but as Jesus says they reveal the secrets of scripture for man to understand. The Spirit never stops helping people learn, look at the preacher Perry Stone.

 

[Susannah]

I entirely agree that we keep learning from the Holy Spirit. Things are being revealed to us through the Holy Spirit that men and women two thousand years ago couldn't understand. They could barely understand the parables of Jesus and he was speaking their language. It doesn't make sense that God would stop talking to us. So he sends the Holy Spirit with new information. I was very moved by the Course in Miracles which taught me how to let go of my anger and be forgiving. But it did so in a modern way. Of course I revere the Bible but I don't worship the Bible, I worship Jesus Christ and I adhere to the Bible as best I can. I don't wear a veil. I do wear a mask LOL