Bible Study Death’s Deliverance

[netchaplain]

It has been well said that “the unsaved need deliverance from the damnation of sin; and the saved need deliverance from the dominion of sin.” Also that, “the Blood procures pardon from sin; and the Cross procures power over sin.” The power over sin involves the restraint of “the old man” via remaining “crucified” (Rom 6:6). This disallows its “reign” and “dominion” (v 12, 14) over the saved, in that it cannot cause us to sin “willingly” (Heb 10:26).

Also be it known that the act of “crucifying” is not carried out by the believer but has been established by the Lord’s crucifixion in us (Gal 2:20), which is progressively brought about in us by the Spirit. Thus, “they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh” (Gal 5:24) intends that the sinful nature of our being has been crucified by Christ, which will be progressively manifested in our acts and “conversations.” Same for the “mortifying of your members” (Col 3:5), in which believers have not the power to perform, but is only accomplished “through the Spirit” (Rom 8:13).
-NC

Death’s Deliverance​

How constant Israel’s desire for Egypt’s food! With every difficulty in the way, whenever their soul was discouraged, there was always coupled with it regret for leaving Egypt. This is the sure fruit of the flesh, for which no sacrifice nor ordinance has ever been given to meet its deep evil. Transgression, various defilements along the way, all provided for; blood for transgressions, ashes to be sprinkled with running water for the defiled. But nature, the flesh, the root of sin of all, has not yet been the object of any ordinance.

The flesh has broken out now (speaking against God – Num 21:5) in its worst form. It is an evil that admits no remedy; it must be destroyed. Sprinkling with ashes of the red heifer, or even blood, does not meet the evil (though well we know that all God’s way of grace from first to last are founded upon the Blood of Christ). A pure thing may be defiled and then cleansed, but death is the only thing for the old man. Wash it as you may, it is still flesh, and must be put “off” in death.

This old man cannot be improved, and may be covered to a certain extent by a decent exterior; but there it is, as vile as ever under the covering. To cover is man’s remedy for the evil he knows; it is the religion of the world in its best form. But the Father would not have His saints go through the world, as it were under false pretenses, but teaches us to count it dead, on the ground of our old man crucified with Christ; and, when we take His Word simply and truthfully, He supplies the needed enablement to live in accordance with the standing given to faith working experience in us.

How suited to the truth is the manner of teaching! Sin, tainted nature, nature as it is now in man, is sin. There cannot be greater condemnation of man. Murmuring against God is but the complement of loathing His bread. In judgment the Israelites are bitten by fiery serpents and dying. Fitting symbol of the venom of the old serpent who instilled his poison into the heart and nature of Adam in the garden; which made him not a mere transgressor of a known command, but changed his whole being morally before God.

Adam truly became another man. Death inevitably followed, and the whole world consequently bears its impress. “Sin entered into the world and death by sin.” The connection between sin and death has never been dissolved. If man be sin, how is death to be severed from the believer: Not the blood in the great Day of Atonement, nor the ashes of the heifer; for the one puts away the sins of the flesh, the other cleansed the pilgrim from defilement contracted by the way. But “the flesh”—the old man—remains unchanged, and the righteousness of God demands that flesh should die.

How then is a believer saved? To meet this righteous necessity Christ was made to be sin and died, and thus becomes our deliverance from it and its power. “Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The believer knows no other way of deliverance than death. It is surely by the death of Christ unto sin, but it must be morally as well as judicially accomplished. Sin and death are never severed. It is a wondrous way in which God maintains His Word, and instead of being mere judgment, it becomes one of our greatest blessings.

But being God’s way, it must therefore be the way of faith to us. “Reckon yourselves to be dead unto sin” (our reckoning doesn’t make it so but provides for a conscience walk in it—NC). Look at Him made sin on the Cross, fully answering for sinful flesh (sinful flesh, e.g. not the body but the nature—NC); then in power of that look turn to the old man and with Job after he had seen God, say, “Wherefore I hate and abhor myself” (old self; old man; old sinful nature; that which is still in the first Adam opposing the believer—NC). As truly as death is the result of sin, so also is life eternal, life beyond the reach of death, and blessed effect of looking at the Lord Jesus Christ made sin for us. God’s judgement joined death to sin, His grace has joined life to the look of faith.

The manner of Israel’s healing is the foreshadowing of this. Then it was simply to look at a serpent upon a pole. A look in itself had been nothing; but God now joined healing and life to it; therefore to look is everything. What a lesson of faith is here! All is referred to the power and grace of God of Him Who said, that every one that is bitten when he looked upon it shall live. Blessed testimony of the efficacy of faith and of Christ, Who lifted up like the brazen serpent, had said “that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Here is a type of Christ, not simply of blood, but of death. It is a question of sin is the flesh (the sinful nature—NC), not of sins by the activity of the flesh. Blood purges, purges the conscience, but purges us from our sins. The flesh, the old man, is never purged, but condemned. “God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh” (Rom 8:3). This is not a process in the soul always going on; but it is made experientially true in our growth. The old man has been crucified with Christ (Rom 6). The body of sin is thus annulled. An immense fact for us, effected on the Cross.

Only neither this nor any other blessing is known without faith. Realizing by faith that the flesh was condemned and put to death on the Cross, and practically putting on the new man, is both the privilege and the responsibility of the believer. Death to the flesh, not atonement by the blood, nor mere cleansing, is the lesson here. It is our identification with Christ on the Cross and proclaims a deeper truth than that typified on the great Day of Atonement (substitution). On that day we saw the Blood that washed away all our sins. It is propitiation. Here in the brazen serpent it is life through death. Christ in the likeness of sinful flesh, and on the Cross, made sin, and then dying under the judgment of God.

That is, He takes our place, made sin for us, “that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.” That righteousness which we are made is the standing we have in Him before the Father; is it not practically that which believers are when they judge their own flesh with the judgment of God? Condemning it root and branch? I am persuaded we shall never know the blessedness of becoming God’s righteousness in Him until we pass sentence of death upon our old man; for you cannot cleanse sin.

Our souls are forgiven their sins; but that is another thing. Fallen nature is still flesh, and must be condemned to death. The flesh is never cleansed. The Lord Jesus has fully borne the judgment of the flesh. He was lifted up for that very purpose, that we, beholding the judgment of our old man resting upon Him, might be able to say that we died with Him (Gal 2:20). As the bitten Israelite looked upon the serpent of brass, and lived, so we look upon the Lord Jesus and in a new life live unto the Father. The question of sin is settled forever. Of course it is but a hint there: the full truth can only come out in the Lord Jesus dead and risen.

- R Beacon


Excerpt from MJS devotion for March 28:
“I do not think that a petition that misses the mind of God will ever be answered (1 John 5:14). Personally, I feel the need of trusting Him to lead me in prayer as well as in other matters. I find it well to preface prayer not only by meditation but by the definite request that I may be directed into the channels of prayer to which the Holy Spirit is beckoning me (Rom. 8:26, 27).

“When we once have the deep, calm assurance of His will in the matter, we put in our claim, just as a child before his father. A simple request and nothing more. No crying, no beseeching, no wrestling. No second asking, either.” -J.O.F.

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

 

[Jim Parker]

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus has fully borne the judgment of the flesh. He was lifted up for that very purpose, that we, beholding the judgment of our old man resting upon Him, might be able to say that we died with Him

The juridical or substitutionary view of the atonement is an unfortunate development beginning with Augustine and being brought to full blossom with the scholastics. That teaching became the official Catholic doctrine of the atonement and, from the Roman Church, it was taken up by all the Protestant churches.

The very early Church, however, did not see Jesus' passion as the punishment for sin or sin as an offense against God thus Jesus death was not seen as His taking our punishment.

Rather, God the Logos became man and lived sinlessly and, therefore did not earn the death which is the wages of sin. By His execution He suffered a death which He had not earned and by His resurrection in the flesh, He destroyed the power of death and sin to cause permanent, physical death to mankind. By trampling down death by His death and resurrection, Jesus secured immortality for mankind which was in accordance with God's purpose for man.

2Ti 1:8-10 Do not be ashamed then of testifying to our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel in the power of God, who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not in virtue of our works but in virtue of his own purpose and the grace which he gave us in Christ Jesus ages ago, and now has manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

See: On the Incarnation, by Athanasius (the 4th century champion of the Trinity)


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Nathan]

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The juridical or substitutionary view of the atonement is an unfortunate development beginning with Augustine and being brought to full blossom with the scholastics. That teaching became the official Catholic doctrine of the atonement and, from the Roman Church, it was taken up by all the Protestant churches.

The very early Church, however, did not see Jesus' passion as the punishment for sin or sin as an offense against God thus Jesus death was not seen as His taking our punishment.

Rather, God the Logos became man and lived sinlessly and, therefore did not earn the death which is the wages of sin. By His execution He suffered a death which He had not earned and by His resurrection in the flesh, He destroyed the power of death and sin to cause permanent, physical death to mankind. By trampling down death by His death and resurrection, Jesus secured immortality for mankind which was in accordance with God's purpose for man.

2Ti 1:8-10 Do not be ashamed then of testifying to our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel in the power of God, who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not in virtue of our works but in virtue of his own purpose and the grace which he gave us in Christ Jesus ages ago, and now has manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

See: On the Incarnation, by Athanasius (the 4th century champion of the Trinity)


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

I'm somewhat confused, are you indicating that Jesus crucifixion was not taught by the early church to be a sacrifice for the sins of man?

I get the impression your saying the death of Jesus was just about His resurrection?

 

[netchaplain]

The juridical or substitutionary view of the atonement is an unfortunate development beginning with Augustine and being brought to full blossom with the scholastics.

Hi JP - Thanks for your reply! I would need to know what your understanding is concerning the "substitution view," and also concerning your understanding of "the early church." Many consider Roman Catholicism as part of the church but is actually in the same category as the Mormons, Jehovah Witness, et al.

 

[Jim Parker]

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm somewhat confused, are you indicating that Jesus crucifixion was not taught by the early church to be a sacrifice for the sins of man?

Ah!
Yes, the early Church did indeed teach that Jesus death was the sacrifice for the sins of man.

But the early church did not teach that it was not necessitated by God's requirement that an infinitely valuable sacrifice be made to satisfy the demands of divine justice because Adam's sin was a criminal offense against infinitely holy God. That view developed in the western (Roman) Church based on the writings of Augustine and the application of Aristotelian logic to theology by the Scholastics (the most notable being Thomas Aquinas) and succinctly stated by Archbishop Anselm of Canterbury. (Late 11th century)

Jesus death death was indeed sacrificial because He offered himself to die the death which mankind had earned through sin.

Scripture states that the wages of sin is death. (Ro 6:23) The western church, through Augustine, the scholastics, et. al., changed the understanding of death from being the consequence of sin (per Ro 6:23) to being the punishment for sin. When God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, rather than saying, "in the day that you eat of it you shall die.", the west interpreted that as if God said, "in the day that you eat of it I will kill you." (Gen 2:17)

His resurrection destroyed the power of Satan to hold mankind in death because of our sin. Because Jesus rose from the dead, all of mankind will rise from the dead immortal and imperishable. (1 Cor 15:52-53)

As a result of that interpretation, the western Church (RC with Protestants following suit) have tended to focus on the death of Christ being the satisfaction of Divine justice and the resurrection being a kind of inevitability. (You can't kill God.)

The early Church, however, celebrated the resurrection as the act of God by which mankind was delivered from the wages of sin, which is death, and immortality being, once again, made available to mankind.

2 Ti 1:10b …our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

I get the impression your saying the death of Jesus was just about His resurrection?

The resurrection is the key. Jesus' death, by itself, would have accomplished nothing if it was not followed by His resurrection.
It is by the resurrection that mankind is saved from death.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy we have been born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Note: We have been born anew through His RESURRECTION, not through His death.

1Co 15:52-54 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

The western Church has lost that understanding because of the juridical view of the atonement which they developed beginning with Augustine.

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Nathan]

His resurrection destroyed the power of Satan to hold mankind in death because of our sin. Because Jesus rose from the dead, all of mankind will rise from the dead immortal and imperishable. (1 Cor 15:52-53)

I see. I'll be honest here, but the jist of what I am getting is the only difference you see in this is Jesus death and resurrection is not just for believers but for unbelievers alike.

I do not see how 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 states that. Paul was talking to believers only, not unbelievers also.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

Paul does not say anything about those who do not belong to Christ being made alive.

Again,
1 Corinthians 15:42-45
So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Does this sound descriptive of unbelievers in hell? They are raised in glory and power? The unbeliever gets eternal life?

And then you read that "death is swallowed up in victory" - for unbelievers? Really?

Its quite obvious that Jesus rose from the dead for those who believe in Him, and them alone - unbelievers do not get to share in the resurrection we do. They die without hope.

Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
rand the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

There were so many faucets of Christ suffering besides just His resurrection. Yes, all that He accomplished would be for nothing if He had not risen, but that is not the only reason He went through the things He did. Each and every thing He endured had as much of a purpose as His resurrection.

 

[Jim Parker]

I see. I'll be honest here, but the jist of what I am getting is the only difference you see in this is Jesus death and resurrection is not just for believers but for unbelievers alike.

All of mankind was delivered from the curse of the law, which is death resulting from sin.
Where anyone spends eternity depends on who he served; God or himself.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

John 5:28-29 (NKJV) … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

From: Intro to 2 Peter in the Orthodox Study Bible “ The church had been infiltrated by gnostic-sounding, antinomian (Lit., “against the law”) teachers, who taught that faith saves apart from repentance, works or virtue.”

jim

 

[Nathan]

All of mankind was delivered from the curse of the law, which is death resulting from sin.
Where anyone spends eternity depends on who he served; God or himself.
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

John 5:28-29 (NKJV) … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

From: Intro to 2 Peter in the Orthodox Study Bible “ The church had been infiltrated by gnostic-sounding, antinomian (Lit., “against the law”) teachers, who taught that faith saves apart from repentance, works or virtue.”

jim

Look at what you just posted again. "he who does not obey the Son shall not see life", yet you are saying they will be raised again for life?

Jesus is clearly saying they will be risen only to be judged. That's it. They will be judged, not given the same things that believers will receive. They receive eternity in death - which is separation from God forever(never ending).

What does your last statement have to do with unbelievers being raised for judgement?

From: Intro to 2 Peter in the Orthodox Study Bible “ The church had been infiltrated by gnostic-sounding, antinomian (Lit., “against the law”) teachers, who taught that faith saves apart from repentance, works or virtue.”

 

[Jim Parker]

Look at what you just posted again. "he who does not obey the Son shall not see life", yet you are saying they will be raised again for life?

Jesus is clearly saying they will be risen only to be judged. That's it. They will be judged, not given the same things that believers will receive. They receive eternity in death - which is separation from God forever(never ending).

All of mankind will be judged.

A common confusion I see is that people talk about salvation and eternal life as being the same thing. They are not.
We are SAVED from the curse of the law which is physical death and returning to dust.

Romans 6:23a For the wages of sin is death

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree"--

Those who believe in Christ and demonstrate their faith by their actions (Talk is cheap.) will be rewarded with ETERNAL LIFE.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
he who does not obey the Son shall not see life,
but the wrath of God rests upon him.

John 5:28-29 (NKJV) … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

All of mankind will be raised from the dead immortal and incorruptible. (1Cor 15:52-54)
God will reward risen mankind according to their works.

Ro 6:2-10 (NKJV)
(God) will render to each one according to his deeds;
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The second death is not a physical death like the first death (the wages of sin) in which the body stops working and returns to dust. The 2nd death is, as you said, and eternal separation from Christ.
Those who have eternal life have it because they are "in Christ."
Those who have the 2nd death have it because they are NOT "in Christ."

Jesus will judge all of mankind, the righteous and the unrighteous.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
Mat 25:41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mat 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

iakov the fool

 

[Nathan]

The second death is destruction.

Matthew 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Those who believe in Christ will receive eternal life, this belief is evident(not self demonstrating) in the fruit of eternal life, which is the righteousness of God.

I think people get tripped up because they think they have to make an apple grow on their branch, rather than watching the apple grow from their branch.

As the OP indicates, Christs work for us guarantees that all who abide in Him have been also died with Him and thereby put to death the works of the flesh - and now we can rest in His finished work, that manifests through our daily lives. No more struggling to produce 'good' fruit in ourselves to please God, but rather resting in Him and enjoying the fruit He produces through us.

 

[Jim Parker]

The second death is destruction.
Matthew 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Considering that Jesus also said that hell is "eternal punishment" (mat 25:46) it is appropriate that we accept the word "destroy" in Mat 10:28 as metaphorically meaning "to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell." and not annihilation as the 7th Day Adventists and their spin-off, the Jehovah's Witnesses, teach.

I think people get tripped up because they think they have to make an apple grow on their branch, rather than watching the apple grow from their branch.

I think you are tripped up by that false analogy.
A tree does not have free will; you do. You can choose to obey Christ or not to. An apple tree cannot choose not to produce apples.

As the OP indicates, Christs work for us guarantees that all who abide in Him have been also died with Him and thereby put to death the works of the flesh -

That's not a "done deal." We are told by Paul:
Rom 6:12-13 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness.
The is what Paul told believers TO DO. The resistance to the demands of the flesh is something that we have to choose to do over and over throughout our lifetime because the devil will never quit trying to get us to sin by employing the desires of the flesh against us.

and now we can rest in His finished work, that manifests through our daily lives. No more struggling to produce 'good' fruit in ourselves to please God, but rather resting in Him and enjoying the fruit He produces through us.

That's the "just say a sinner's prayer and you'll go to heaven" nonsense.
If we didn't have to do anything the New Testament would not be full of instructions telling us what we need to do. If we just naturally did all the good things that God wants us to do just like a tree growing apples, then why did Paul waste so much ink telling us what we need to be doing as if it were up to us to do them?
Here's A Few Works prescribed by Paul in Scripture
Rom 2:7-10 (God) will render to each one according to his deeds: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 6:12-13 … do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Rom 12:1-2 … present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Rom 12:6-8 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9-13:1 [Let] love [be] without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
[Be] kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but [rather] give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance [is] Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.
Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
Rom 13:5-8 Therefore [you] must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes [are due], customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:13-14 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to [fulfill its] lusts
Rom 14:1-3 Receive one who is weak in the faith, [but] not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats [only] vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in [our] brother's way.
Rom 14:15-16 Yet if your brother is grieved because of [your] food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;
Rom 14:19-21 Therefore let us pursue the things [which make] for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed [are] pure, but [it is] evil for the man who eats with offense. [It is] good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor [do anything] by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
Rom 14:22-23 Do you have faith? Have [it] to yourself before God. Happy [is] he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] from faith; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.
Rom 15:1-2 We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please [his] neighbor for [his] good, leading to edification.
Rom 15:7 Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God
(continued)

 

[Jim Parker]

Works prescribed by Paul continued
1 Cor 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
1 Cor 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
1 Cor 7:10-111 Now to the married I command, [yet] not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from [her] husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to [her] husband. And a husband is not to divorce [his] wife.
1Cor 7:20-24 Were you called [while] a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use [it]. For he who is called in the Lord [while] a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called [while] free is Christ's slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. Brethren, let each one remain with God in that [state] in which he was called.
1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.
1 Cor 10:7-10 And do not become idolaters as [were] some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
1 Cor 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
1 Cor 10:27-28 If any of those who do not believe invites you [to dinner], and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth [is] the LORD's, and all its fullness."
1 Cor 10:31-33 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also please all [men] in all [things], not seeking my own profit, but the [profit] of many, that they may be saved.
1 Cor 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also [imitate] Christ.
1 Cor 11:27-28 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1 Cor 11:33-34 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.
1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual [gifts], but especially that you may prophesy.
1 Cor 14:27-32 If anyone speaks in a tongue, [let there be] two or at the most three, [each] in turn, and let one interpret. But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if [anything] is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but [they are] to be submissive, as the law also says.
1 Cor 14:39-40 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order
1 Cor 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
1 Cor 16:13-14 Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong. Let all [that] you [do] be done with love.
2 Cor 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
2 Cor 6:17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."
Gal 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who [are] spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:6 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches.
Eph 4:1-3 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:20-32 But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Therefore, putting away lying, "[Let] each one [of you] speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
"Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil.
Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with [his] hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
Eph 5:1-4 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose [them].
Eph 5:15-21 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord [is].
And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife [see] that she respects [her] husband.
Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord,
Eph 6:4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.
Eph 6:5-8 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; not with eye-service, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether [he is] a slave or free.
Eph 6:9 And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.
Eph 6:10-13 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual [hosts] of wickedness in the heavenly [places]. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 

[Jim Parker]

Works prescribed by Paul (again! )
Phl 1:27-28 … let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that from God.
Phl 2:3-8 [Let] nothing [be done] through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, [and] coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to [the point of] death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:14 Do all things without complaining and disputing,
Phl 4:4-6 Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord [is] at hand. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things [are] noble, whatever things [are] just, whatever things [are] pure, whatever things [are] lovely, whatever things [are] of good report, if [there is] any virtue and if [there is] anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things.
Phl 4:9 The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.
Col 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ
Col 3:2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Col 3:8-9 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
Col 3:13-17 Therefore, as [the] elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also [must do].
But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
Col 3:18-23 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.
Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord.
Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.
Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eye-service, as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God.
And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men,
Col 4:1 Masters, give your bondservants what is just and fair,
Col 4:5-6 Walk in wisdom toward those [who are] outside, redeeming the time. [Let] your speech always [be] with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.
1Th 4:3-5 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;
1 Th 5:6-8 Therefore let us not sleep, as others [do], but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and [as] a helmet the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
1Th 5:15-22 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
16 Rejoice always,
17 pray without ceasing,
18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
19 Do not quench the Spirit.
20 Do not despise prophecies.
21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
22 Abstain from every form of evil.
2 Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
1 Ti 2:1-2 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
1 Ti 2:11-12 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
1 Ti 4:7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.
1 Ti 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Ti 5:1-3 Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort [him] as a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, with all purity. Honor widows who are really widows.
1 Ti 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
1 Ti 5:19-20 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.
1 Ti 5:22 Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure.
1 Ti 6:7-14 … we brought nothing into [this] world, [and it is] certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all [kinds of] evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and [before] Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep [this] commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,
1 Ti 6:17-19 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.
[Let them] do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
2 Ti 1:6 …. I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
2 Ti 1:13-14 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
2 Ti 2:22 … the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
2 Ti 2:11-13 [This is] a faithful saying: For if we died with [Him], We shall also live with [Him]. If we endure, We shall also reign with [Him]. If we deny [Him], He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
2 Ti 2:15-16 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane [and] idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:22-23 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
2 Ti 2:24-26 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and [that] they may come to their senses [and escape] the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to [do] his will.
Tts 3:9-10 … avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,

 

[Nathan]

Maybe it's just me, but you seem more concerned of what your doing, rather than what God in Christ has done for you and wants to do through you.

 

[Jim Parker]

Maybe it's just me, but you seem more concerned of what your doing, rather than what God in Christ has done for you and wants to do through you.

What Christ did for me is HIS business.
What Christ told me to do is MY business.
I can't do Jesus' business.
But I better be concerned with what I'm doing and sure I'm taking care of MY business.

Consider: Mat 24:45-51
Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.

But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.

Which servant do you choose to be?

Do you think being a good servant happens automatically, like a tree growing apples?

Good luck with that.



iakov the fool

 

[Nathan]

What Christ did for me is HIS business.
What Christ told me to do is MY business.
I can't do Jesus' business.
But I better be concerned with what I'm doing and sure I'm taking care of MY business.

Consider: Mat 24:45-51
Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.

But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.

Which servant do you choose to be?

Do you think being a good servant happens automatically, like a tree growing apples?

Good luck with that.



iakov the fool

Well I have no plans to disregard His return, and no plans to beat my fellow servants, or fall into a sinful lifestyle - so I suppose I'll just be content to walk in my faith as I am.

I'm not a tree or roots, so I don't have to labor for the fruit. I just let it grow naturally. I figure if I'm a true branch on His tree then I'll grow fruit - so far it seems to be happening.

 

[Jim Parker]

I figure if I'm a true branch on His tree then I'll grow fruit -

I can not understand the resistance that people who read the scriptures have to doing what that same scripture (NT not Law of Moses) says we are supposed to do.

Neither can I understand the resistance that people have to taking personal responsibility to "make their calling and election sure."

so far it seems to be happening.

It's "happening"?

Luk 6:46 Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?
sigh

iakov the fool

 

[Nathan]

I can not understand the resistance that people who read the scriptures have to doing what that same scripture (NT not Law of Moses) says we are supposed to do.

Neither can I understand the resistance that people have to taking personal responsibility to "make their calling and election sure."

It's "happening"?

Luk 6:46 Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?
sigh

iakov the fool

I think it may be that some hear different things told them. I have zero resistance to doing what Christ calls me to do. I fully believe I am doing it as we speak. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He did not tell us to do anything more, or less, than what He wanted the people of the OT to do. The only difference is now we do not offer animal sacrifices, nor depend on the various laws dealing with food and such.

God requires faith. Faith says I follow and abide in Him and let Him work through me. He tells us to abide in Him. When we do that He promises He will work through us. Its a promise of His and I believe He is able to fulfill that promise.

Galatians 3:2-5
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish?Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith

I received Him by faith, and I am convinced by faith I will be perfected in Him. I did not work for my faith, nor do I believe I need to work for my perfection. The Spirit inside me works out His will in my life - all I must do is abide and obey. If my faith did not have works associated with it then I would be very concerned my faith was not real. But since I can see Him working through me, then I know my faith is real. I find that to be very restful. As He promised, all who are weary can come to Him and find rest.

 

[Jim Parker]

I did not work for my faith, nor do I believe I need to work for my perfection.

In that I believe you err.

The Spirit inside me works out His will in my life - all I must do is abide and obey.

Abiding and obeying are your proper works.

But since I can see Him working through me, then I know my faith is real.

Amen to that.

We're down to semantics now.

iakov the fool

 

[Nathan]

In that I believe you err.

Abiding and obeying are your proper works.

Amen to that.

We're down to semantics now.

iakov the fool

I think a lot of miscommunication comes from semantics. That is why proper definitions are so important.

As far as being in err, by not believing I worked for my faith, how can the passage in Ephesians be seen any clearer that we were given faith by God, not a result of our own works, but because of His work? If I worked for my faith, or anything else, then I have room to boast. Not so if He does the work.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

And as far as Him sanctifying me, and not me doing it by my own works, Paul says;

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.