G
Gendou Ikari
Guest
I do believe in the ability for Fallen Angels to repent and return to God but I was wondering what Christian Fundamentalists thought about the subject.
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T
tzalam2
Guest
Gendou Ikari said:
:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
I want to know what Scripture you base your belief on, and what
denomination are you?
And, why do you believe demons can return to God?
More importantly, what do you know about WHY they are fallen?
G
Gendou Ikari
Guest
*edited.... You have been warned that UR topic is banned here!*
T
tzalam2
Guest
First of all, I want to THANK YOU for this question. Finding the answer to this question has put me deeper into God's Word, and has taught me practical Bible doctrine, and has ultimately strengthened my Christian walk.
The Lord Jesus says to study the Bible, and to use the whole armor of God. One of the pieces of that armor is the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. Praise God! He is MOST HOLY, He alone deserves to be worshipped, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, praise Him, hallelujah!
I shall paste the entire lesson here, but, will put the section that pertains to YOUR questions, right after this entire lesson.
The Lesson:
Bible Doctrine of Satan
The Bible teaching about the devil is unwelcome to many, yet Scriptures everywhere teach the existence of a personal spirit of evil. Moreover, the facts of human life attest the existence of a superior diabolical spirit who works upon the fallen nature of man, suggesting evil.
Our Lord met a personal devil in the wilderness. Mat. 4:1-11.
Personal names are ascribed to the devil. He is called Satan 35 times in the New Testament.
What is he called in the following passages?
a. Isaiah 14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
b. John 12:31, Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
14:30, Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
c. Ephesians 2:2-Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
d. II Cor. 4:4-In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
e. Revelation 12:9,-And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
.13,And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
17-And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
f. Revelation 12:3, And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
14, And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15-And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
g. Ezekiel 28:14-Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
h. II Cor. 11:14,15-For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15: Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
i. Matthew 12:26,27-And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27: And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
J. Mathew 4:3-And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
k. 1 Peter 5:8-Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
L. 1 John 2:13,-I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.
3:12-Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
5:18-We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
m. II Cor. 6:15-And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
n. John 8:44-Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
o. Revelation 12:10-the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Is the work of Satan distinguished from the work of the flesh and the world?
Ephesians 2:2, 3; -Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
James 4:4; -Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
1 John 2:3-4-And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The fall of Lucifer
What do you learn in Ezekiel 28:11-19 about Satan’s origin?-Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12: Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18: Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19: All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
About the cause of his fall?Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;
About his future outlook?-I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. /and never shalt thou be any more.
What does Isaiah 14:12-15 say about the reason for his downfall?
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
About his ultimate fate?-Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Two significant events of Satan’s history are:
a. his triumph over the first Adam
b. his defeat at the hands of the last Adam
Men have argued to no avail (because we don’t know the mind of God, and it’s haughty and pompous to assume we do) over the question of why God created Lucifer, knowing that he would fall, and why He permitted him to introduce sin into the world. The fact is that sin is here.
It has invaded human society.
Since man was created with the capacity of choice and moral perception of a high order, his environment had to include provision for the use of these powers. Hence Satan was permitted to enter the scene and
test man.
The Genesis account is a vindication of God. He created man innocent and happy, giving him delightful surroundings, and a helpmeet, or companion. Desiring from him the trustful obedience of a child, not the enforced obedience of a slave, God gave humans the power of choice, with full warning of the consequences of disobedience.
Why does no believer need to be defeated by the devil?
1 John 4:4-Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
How are those, referred to in Revelation 12:11, said to overcome Satan? Rev. 12:11-And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
What will become of all of Satan’s works? 1 John 3:8-He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
The unsaved are called children of the devil. The believer should resist the devil, and the
death of Christ delivers the believer from the fear of death. Believers
don’t have to be defeated by the devil, because Jesus is stronger than
the devil. The believer has victory in Jesus. Walk closely to Him. For the
rest of your life. Beware of the lies of the devil. Submit every thought you
have to Jesus, compare them to what the Word of the Living God says.
The Lord Jesus says to study the Bible, and to use the whole armor of God. One of the pieces of that armor is the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. Praise God! He is MOST HOLY, He alone deserves to be worshipped, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, praise Him, hallelujah!
I shall paste the entire lesson here, but, will put the section that pertains to YOUR questions, right after this entire lesson.
The Lesson:
Bible Doctrine of Satan
The Bible teaching about the devil is unwelcome to many, yet Scriptures everywhere teach the existence of a personal spirit of evil. Moreover, the facts of human life attest the existence of a superior diabolical spirit who works upon the fallen nature of man, suggesting evil.
Our Lord met a personal devil in the wilderness. Mat. 4:1-11.
Personal names are ascribed to the devil. He is called Satan 35 times in the New Testament.
What is he called in the following passages?
a. Isaiah 14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
b. John 12:31, Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
14:30, Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
c. Ephesians 2:2-Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
d. II Cor. 4:4-In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
e. Revelation 12:9,-And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
.13,And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
17-And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
f. Revelation 12:3, And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
14, And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15-And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
g. Ezekiel 28:14-Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
h. II Cor. 11:14,15-For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15: Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
i. Matthew 12:26,27-And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27: And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
J. Mathew 4:3-And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
k. 1 Peter 5:8-Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
L. 1 John 2:13,-I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.
3:12-Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
5:18-We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
m. II Cor. 6:15-And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
n. John 8:44-Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
o. Revelation 12:10-the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Is the work of Satan distinguished from the work of the flesh and the world?
Ephesians 2:2, 3; -Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
James 4:4; -Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
1 John 2:3-4-And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The fall of Lucifer
What do you learn in Ezekiel 28:11-19 about Satan’s origin?-Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12: Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18: Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19: All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
About the cause of his fall?Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;
About his future outlook?-I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. /and never shalt thou be any more.
What does Isaiah 14:12-15 say about the reason for his downfall?
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
About his ultimate fate?-Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Two significant events of Satan’s history are:
a. his triumph over the first Adam
b. his defeat at the hands of the last Adam
Men have argued to no avail (because we don’t know the mind of God, and it’s haughty and pompous to assume we do) over the question of why God created Lucifer, knowing that he would fall, and why He permitted him to introduce sin into the world. The fact is that sin is here.
It has invaded human society.
Since man was created with the capacity of choice and moral perception of a high order, his environment had to include provision for the use of these powers. Hence Satan was permitted to enter the scene and
test man.
The Genesis account is a vindication of God. He created man innocent and happy, giving him delightful surroundings, and a helpmeet, or companion. Desiring from him the trustful obedience of a child, not the enforced obedience of a slave, God gave humans the power of choice, with full warning of the consequences of disobedience.
Why does no believer need to be defeated by the devil?
1 John 4:4-Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
How are those, referred to in Revelation 12:11, said to overcome Satan? Rev. 12:11-And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
What will become of all of Satan’s works? 1 John 3:8-He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
The unsaved are called children of the devil. The believer should resist the devil, and the
death of Christ delivers the believer from the fear of death. Believers
don’t have to be defeated by the devil, because Jesus is stronger than
the devil. The believer has victory in Jesus. Walk closely to Him. For the
rest of your life. Beware of the lies of the devil. Submit every thought you
have to Jesus, compare them to what the Word of the Living God says.
T
tzalam2
Guest
The fall of Lucifer
What do you learn in Ezekiel 28:11-19 about Satan’s origin?-Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12: Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18: Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19: All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
About the cause of his fall?Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;
About his future outlook?-I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. /and never shalt thou be any more.
What does Isaiah 14:12-15 say about the reason for his downfall?
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
About his ultimate fate?-Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Two significant events of Satan’s history are:
a. his triumph over the first Adam
b. his defeat at the hands of the last Adam
What do you learn in Ezekiel 28:11-19 about Satan’s origin?-Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12: Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18: Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19: All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
About the cause of his fall?Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick;
About his future outlook?-I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. /and never shalt thou be any more.
What does Isaiah 14:12-15 say about the reason for his downfall?
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
About his ultimate fate?-Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Two significant events of Satan’s history are:
a. his triumph over the first Adam
b. his defeat at the hands of the last Adam
G
Gendou Ikari
Guest
I'm not too convinced that Lucifer is the Adversary since it says:
because from the beginning the devil doth sin (1 John 3:8)
because from the beginning the devil doth sin (1 John 3:8)
K
KnarfKS
Guest
because from the beginning the devil doth sin (1 John 3:8)
You forgot to post the entire verse...
First off, your playing with a doctrine that is heresy, but I don't want to change the topic to that. But Jesus did not die for "the advesary" if you mean the devil or the devil's angels. We as humans are advesaries to God ourselves when we don't believe and live in His son and accept the grace that He has offered us. I can't see where you are pulling this out of scripture, the first two scriptures don't back it up at all.
Like someone else asked, where are you getting you scripture to back up your ideas?
You forgot to post the entire verse...
(1 John 3:8)
First off, your playing with a doctrine that is heresy, but I don't want to change the topic to that. But Jesus did not die for "the advesary" if you mean the devil or the devil's angels. We as humans are advesaries to God ourselves when we don't believe and live in His son and accept the grace that He has offered us. I can't see where you are pulling this out of scripture, the first two scriptures don't back it up at all.
Every knee will bow, but not every knee will bow in heaven. And where are you getting that they will love and serve God, except that they serve to show Him in the glory of His justice and righteousness. Satan won't love God, but satan will be forced to bow down.
Like someone else asked, where are you getting you scripture to back up your ideas?
G
Gendou Ikari
Guest
*edited*
V
videocrafter
Guest
Gendou Ikari said:
You are joking right? Even the scripture verses you provide has nothing to do with this make believe subject!