Note to the reader: This thread is partly for sharing personal testimonies of how you have practiced self denial in your own life for the sake of obeying God, or have in the past, and partly for discussing the principles involved, and what Jesus was actually teaching when He told to the disciples to deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him.
What does it mean to die to oneself or "deny oneself" as the scripture teaches, and how does this work out in our lives personally and practically? I have my own answers, but I am interested to hear what others have to say on this subject, and how it has actually worked out in their lives.
A friend recently asked what it meant to "die to oneself," so I wrote this up and thought it was something I should share publicly. One of the primary passages this teaching is based on is found in the Gospel of John:
Then Jesus answered them, saying... 25 "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." (John 12:25)
Though most teach that the primary meaning here was that we must be prepared to give our physical lives for the gospel's sake if necessary, this is actually only part of the meaning. The word used here for "life" was actually the Greek word ψυχή, which is translated into English today as "the psyche," and refers more specifically to the properties of the human soul, i.e. the mind, the will, and the emotions.
In light of the broader context, this is what Jesus was actually telling the disciples they needed to die to. Our sense of self importance in this world - our "psyche" - must die if we would fulfill the will of God for our lives. The teaching was actually given because Greeks had come to see Jesus, and wanted to glorify Him in the flesh in this life.
20 Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast. 21 Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” 22 Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus. 23 But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.
Apparently Jesus knew in advance that these Greeks wanted to see Him because they would exalt Him as a great teacher or wise man, but He responded by telling the disciples, "He who loves his soul (i.e. his psyche) in this life will lose it, but he who hates his soul (psyche) in this world he will keep it for eternal life." In other words, He was telling them that a man must "hate his soul in this world" by discarding what this world would make of him, and instead embrace only what God would make of him. It's because Satan seeks to tempt people with the offer that he can make them "gods" before the eyes of the world. Some foolishly buy into this, only it ends terribly because they find out only after death that they were deceived by an evil god who simpky wanted to get them away from God so he could torture them in eternity, as they were made in God's image.
The same principle applied when Satan appeared before Jesus in the wilderness. He appeared to Him and offered Him the kingdoms of this world if He would bow down and worship him. It's something Jesus very well wanted, and that God the Father had promised to Him, only if He would have sought to attain it through Satan He would have damned Himself. But here is where the temptation came in. To attain to the kingdoms of this world through God the Father, Jesus knew He would have to suffer and die for the sins of humanity. With Satan's offer, however, all He would have to do is bow down, yet this is where denial of self/ denial of the psyche in this life came into play in our Lord's life, and it still applies to us today. Will we deny what our soul wants in favor of what God wants? Or will we turn from Him, disobey Him, and decide to pursue and attain our desires by some other means, taking the short cuts that Satan offers us, but which could carry terrible consequences in the next life if we accept them?
This is why scripture says that God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9). Scripture also states that it is written, “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9).
God the Father had something better for His Son than simply ruling the planet. Under Satan, He could have ruled with an iron fist, but this would have been nothing compared to what the Father had prepared for Him. Humans cannot be forced to love anyone. Their love must be earned by the sacrifices we make for them out of love, and this is what Jesus was asked to do when He give His life for His spiritual bride, the church. The Father did not simply want Him to rule over the earth. He wanted Him to have the reward of being deeply loved by the world as well, and this could only come if he was willing to die to whatever his soul and flesh might have wanted and obey what His Father was asking Him to do instead.
Now here's how all this applies to ministry. If believers have not yet trained themselves to think His thoughts, feel what He feels, or be willing to sacrifice their will for His, they will never be able to accomplish anything of great significance. It cannot be about what we want, we think, we feel, or we desire.
This especially relates to matters like prophecy and operating in divine utterance. In all forms of prophecy, one has to be able to "Let Go and Let God," as it were. Sometimes prophets hear God telling them to say certain things, and it's like, "No way am I saying that." Their natural mind says it's too personal, or too controversial, or people will think they're crazy, or somebody may want to kill them over it. But until one has died to himself and his own "psyche" and what others will think of him - either positively OR negatively - he cannot be truly used of God. A prophet must speak only what God has said, and nothing else.
Similar experiences happen when interpreting dreams. Sometimes it's like, "How do you tell them something without them thinking you're being intrusive, or controlling, or just plain nuts?" I myself will sometimes receive dreams that look at first glance like they might be telling me something I truly do NOT want to hear, and which I'm deeply invested in emotionally, so I'll be like, "Oh please for God's sake don't let this mean what I think it might!" But if you are going to be open to what God has to say on a matter, you have to be wiling to accept whatever HE is saying, not what you want Him to say. When you do that, you often find out that what He was actually saying wasn't nearly as bad as what you feared. But you have to submit your will - your psyche - to Him regardless in order to find out. If you close your mind out of fear - either for yourself or for others - you will never receive and/ or speak what God is saying. We have to submit our will to the Lord, let Him have things and just obey, whatever it is, even if our minds don't fully understand it yet. But if we do, sometimes we find out that what He had for us was actually far BETTER than anything we could have hoped for, and far more powerful.
The occult world operates on the same principles. Aliester Crowley once coined the phrase, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Many suppose it meant, "Do whatever YOU want to do," but this is actually a misconception. In reality, the phrase meant, "When 'the gods' (i.e. when demonic spirits) lead you to do or say something, do it. Don't allow social conditioning or morals hinder you from acting, for if you would operate in magick at the higher levels, you must obey the prompting of the 'gods.'" This is why Crowley developed a whole list of techniques to retrain the mind, so as to be fully open to doing and saying whatever a spirit led one to do without reservation. It's why he taught things like speaking backwards, writing backwards, erasing all thoughts of conformity to social norms and moral codes, etc. The idea was to make the human soul completely compliant and receptive to whatever the spirits would tell one to do.
Songs have been written about this principle. Sometimes the thoughts one receives won't "make you smile," but "you don't have to cry." In other words, things may not be as bad as you think. They may not make sense right now, but that doesn't make them lies. It just means you don't get it yet.
This same principal is always at work within Spirit-filled Christianity, or at least it is supposed to be. We are supposed to be open to what the Spirit of God Himself is saying and thinking, and receive inspiration from Him. By contrast, we are supposed to reject the thoughts and desires of our own soul as well as those of unclean spirits. Only when we are able to receive what HE would have us do, think and say can we become true vessels of the Lord Jesus Christ, and this requires letting go of our own thoughts, desires, suppositions, fears, etc, and simply letting God be God.
Blessings in Christ to anyone who reads this, and thank you in advance for your thoughts, testimonies or questions.
Hidden In Him
What does it mean to die to oneself or "deny oneself" as the scripture teaches, and how does this work out in our lives personally and practically? I have my own answers, but I am interested to hear what others have to say on this subject, and how it has actually worked out in their lives.
A friend recently asked what it meant to "die to oneself," so I wrote this up and thought it was something I should share publicly. One of the primary passages this teaching is based on is found in the Gospel of John:
Then Jesus answered them, saying... 25 "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." (John 12:25)
Though most teach that the primary meaning here was that we must be prepared to give our physical lives for the gospel's sake if necessary, this is actually only part of the meaning. The word used here for "life" was actually the Greek word ψυχή, which is translated into English today as "the psyche," and refers more specifically to the properties of the human soul, i.e. the mind, the will, and the emotions.
In light of the broader context, this is what Jesus was actually telling the disciples they needed to die to. Our sense of self importance in this world - our "psyche" - must die if we would fulfill the will of God for our lives. The teaching was actually given because Greeks had come to see Jesus, and wanted to glorify Him in the flesh in this life.
20 Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast. 21 Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” 22 Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus. 23 But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.
Apparently Jesus knew in advance that these Greeks wanted to see Him because they would exalt Him as a great teacher or wise man, but He responded by telling the disciples, "He who loves his soul (i.e. his psyche) in this life will lose it, but he who hates his soul (psyche) in this world he will keep it for eternal life." In other words, He was telling them that a man must "hate his soul in this world" by discarding what this world would make of him, and instead embrace only what God would make of him. It's because Satan seeks to tempt people with the offer that he can make them "gods" before the eyes of the world. Some foolishly buy into this, only it ends terribly because they find out only after death that they were deceived by an evil god who simpky wanted to get them away from God so he could torture them in eternity, as they were made in God's image.
The same principle applied when Satan appeared before Jesus in the wilderness. He appeared to Him and offered Him the kingdoms of this world if He would bow down and worship him. It's something Jesus very well wanted, and that God the Father had promised to Him, only if He would have sought to attain it through Satan He would have damned Himself. But here is where the temptation came in. To attain to the kingdoms of this world through God the Father, Jesus knew He would have to suffer and die for the sins of humanity. With Satan's offer, however, all He would have to do is bow down, yet this is where denial of self/ denial of the psyche in this life came into play in our Lord's life, and it still applies to us today. Will we deny what our soul wants in favor of what God wants? Or will we turn from Him, disobey Him, and decide to pursue and attain our desires by some other means, taking the short cuts that Satan offers us, but which could carry terrible consequences in the next life if we accept them?
This is why scripture says that God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9). Scripture also states that it is written, “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9).
God the Father had something better for His Son than simply ruling the planet. Under Satan, He could have ruled with an iron fist, but this would have been nothing compared to what the Father had prepared for Him. Humans cannot be forced to love anyone. Their love must be earned by the sacrifices we make for them out of love, and this is what Jesus was asked to do when He give His life for His spiritual bride, the church. The Father did not simply want Him to rule over the earth. He wanted Him to have the reward of being deeply loved by the world as well, and this could only come if he was willing to die to whatever his soul and flesh might have wanted and obey what His Father was asking Him to do instead.
Now here's how all this applies to ministry. If believers have not yet trained themselves to think His thoughts, feel what He feels, or be willing to sacrifice their will for His, they will never be able to accomplish anything of great significance. It cannot be about what we want, we think, we feel, or we desire.
This especially relates to matters like prophecy and operating in divine utterance. In all forms of prophecy, one has to be able to "Let Go and Let God," as it were. Sometimes prophets hear God telling them to say certain things, and it's like, "No way am I saying that." Their natural mind says it's too personal, or too controversial, or people will think they're crazy, or somebody may want to kill them over it. But until one has died to himself and his own "psyche" and what others will think of him - either positively OR negatively - he cannot be truly used of God. A prophet must speak only what God has said, and nothing else.
Similar experiences happen when interpreting dreams. Sometimes it's like, "How do you tell them something without them thinking you're being intrusive, or controlling, or just plain nuts?" I myself will sometimes receive dreams that look at first glance like they might be telling me something I truly do NOT want to hear, and which I'm deeply invested in emotionally, so I'll be like, "Oh please for God's sake don't let this mean what I think it might!" But if you are going to be open to what God has to say on a matter, you have to be wiling to accept whatever HE is saying, not what you want Him to say. When you do that, you often find out that what He was actually saying wasn't nearly as bad as what you feared. But you have to submit your will - your psyche - to Him regardless in order to find out. If you close your mind out of fear - either for yourself or for others - you will never receive and/ or speak what God is saying. We have to submit our will to the Lord, let Him have things and just obey, whatever it is, even if our minds don't fully understand it yet. But if we do, sometimes we find out that what He had for us was actually far BETTER than anything we could have hoped for, and far more powerful.
The occult world operates on the same principles. Aliester Crowley once coined the phrase, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Many suppose it meant, "Do whatever YOU want to do," but this is actually a misconception. In reality, the phrase meant, "When 'the gods' (i.e. when demonic spirits) lead you to do or say something, do it. Don't allow social conditioning or morals hinder you from acting, for if you would operate in magick at the higher levels, you must obey the prompting of the 'gods.'" This is why Crowley developed a whole list of techniques to retrain the mind, so as to be fully open to doing and saying whatever a spirit led one to do without reservation. It's why he taught things like speaking backwards, writing backwards, erasing all thoughts of conformity to social norms and moral codes, etc. The idea was to make the human soul completely compliant and receptive to whatever the spirits would tell one to do.
Songs have been written about this principle. Sometimes the thoughts one receives won't "make you smile," but "you don't have to cry." In other words, things may not be as bad as you think. They may not make sense right now, but that doesn't make them lies. It just means you don't get it yet.
This same principal is always at work within Spirit-filled Christianity, or at least it is supposed to be. We are supposed to be open to what the Spirit of God Himself is saying and thinking, and receive inspiration from Him. By contrast, we are supposed to reject the thoughts and desires of our own soul as well as those of unclean spirits. Only when we are able to receive what HE would have us do, think and say can we become true vessels of the Lord Jesus Christ, and this requires letting go of our own thoughts, desires, suppositions, fears, etc, and simply letting God be God.
Blessings in Christ to anyone who reads this, and thank you in advance for your thoughts, testimonies or questions.
Hidden In Him
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I just received a third confirmation of something that is coming prophetically through yet another person; all their dreams are talking about the same subject matter - contain the same critical elements, and all three are from three different people, none of whom know each other yet, and none of whom even know what those dreams mean yet, Lol. Don't tell me things are always subjective, cuz they're not. It's just that not many are moving in supernatural gifts at this current time in church history, so they assume the way things are at present is the way they should be, but that's bunk. Signs and wonders were a hallmark of the early church, and a confirmation that the word was true, and they will be again in the end-times.