Determining Satans exact feelings (ie. of hate) for us...

[VaultZero4Me]

I did not mean to say that the teachings of Christianity are contradictory to the OT, but it certainly is not the same as the classical Judaic teachings from before Christ, and after Christ, up until this day.

Yeah, I'd agree they didn't have the same view. You know, it's interesting that there were actually quite a few different Judiac teachings. You had the Pharisees, who are the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism. You had the Saduceess who believed in free will, but did not believe in angels nor the afterlife yet read the Bible very literally. There were Essenes, who came about because they were sick of the first two, and then the Zealots who got militant about it (and Rome/Hellenism).

Yes, Satan means the accuser, which is the role he played in Job. The accuser or prosecutor role is not what is taught by Christianity. Christianity holds satan as a direct adversary who directly competes against God for the souls of man, and acts on his own to try and win man from God. I do not believe any of the teachings from Judaism on the OT ever has Satan acting without God's direct permission, which is not what we see taught in Christianity. Satan is at war with God and man.

Well... I don't know about that. As a Christian I do believe Satan needs God's permission. ....even though there is a war.

This isn't to lead into a debate or anything, . I am just asking for biblical reference so I can try to understand the changing in understanding of the texts as taught by Judaism, to the differing interpretation at the advent of Christianity and the writing of the NT.

Oh, yeah, you should check out the Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, and Zealots then. There's some good info on the net. Probably find a good book too.

thanks.

Do you have any book recommendations?

 

[Veritas]

Josephus talks about the different sects quite a bit...and there are new translations of his work out now:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Complete-Work ... 612&sr=1-2

non-canonical writings give insight too:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/038509 ... roduct_top

and

http://www.amazon.com/Testament-Pseudep ... pd_sim_b_1

oh, and anything on the dead sea scrolls give insight on the essenes... I just have the complete works, but I did a search and found this one which seems pretty interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/Josephus-Descript ... 73&sr=1-11

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Josephus talks about the different sects quite a bit...and there are new translations of his work out now:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Complete-Work ... 612&sr=1-2

non-canonical writings give insight too:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/038509 ... roduct_top

and

http://www.amazon.com/Testament-Pseudep ... pd_sim_b_1

oh, and anything on the dead sea scrolls give insight on the essenes... I just have the complete works, but I did a search and found this one which seems pretty interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/Josephus-Descript ... 73&sr=1-11

much appreciated :D

 

[BobRyan]

I did not mean to say that the teachings of Christianity are contradictory to the OT, but it certainly is not the same as the classical Judaic teachings from before Christ, and after Christ, up until this day.

Yeah, I'd agree they didn't have the same view. You know, it's interesting that there were actually quite a few different Judiac teachings. You had the Pharisees, who are the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism. You had the Saduceess who believed in free will, but did not believe in angels nor the afterlife yet read the Bible very literally. There were Essenes, who came about because they were sick of the first two, and then the Zealots who got militant about it (and Rome/Hellenism).

Indeed this is apparent from Matt 22.

However when discussing the issue of Bible facts - you need to come at it from the context that the Text of the Bible is valid -- is to be trusted. Starting off with a slice-and-dice "Bible is corrupt" context is not going to get you very far -- and neither will an appeal to Jewish authorities "as if they were all of one monolithic doctrinal school of thought".

Christ argues in Mark 7 that the Jewish authorities of his day had already bent wrenched and corrupted their rendering of the text of scripture so as to make it null and void.

Bob