Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Christian Forum aspires to be an online community where Christians can come together in fellowship with the purpose to encourage, inspire and build up our faith in Christ Jesus. John 13:34-35
  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Detroit may make national news BLM protest

humble soul

On Sabbatical from Rome
Member
From
Australia
Gender
Male
Messages
5,853
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
I just assumed that all black people supported Black Lives Matter. I was wrong. Go on YouTube and you will see. Some have viewed BLM as political opportunists creating and encouraging hysteria. Exaggerating and even falsifying statistics.
There was an Australian Aboriginal woman recently on Twitter who openly rejects the BLM paradigm. She had drug and alcohol issues herself and overcame them through a Christian based recovery program. She said BLM encouraged a victim mentality which was disempowering. I am becoming convinced myself that BLM is actually working against the best interests of the black community. Why not focus on empowerment instead of blame?
 

Susannah

Susannah
Member
From
San Francisco Bay Area
Gender
Female
Messages
1,603
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
I don't have an opinion about Black Lives Matter as a organization. I do believe that black lives matter. And I know everybody doesn't feel that way. I just know from my own experience that there is institutional racism in this country and that the police treat black people different than they do white people. I think there needs to be some changes when it comes to the police. They need to stop shooting people in the back. Just let them go. They need to get rid of choke holds on people. People are resisting this. I don't understand what's wrong with eliminating a chokehold
 
Last edited:

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
From
Central Minnesota, USA
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
12,023
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
I just assumed that all black people supported Black Lives Matter. I was wrong. Go on YouTube and you will see. Some have viewed BLM as political opportunists creating and encouraging hysteria. Exaggerating and even falsifying statistics.
There was an Australian Aboriginal woman recently on Twitter who openly rejects the BLM paradigm. She had drug and alcohol issues herself and overcame them through a Christian based recovery program. She said BLM encouraged a victim mentality which was disempowering. I am becoming convinced myself that BLM is actually working against the best interests of the black community. Why not focus on empowerment instead of blame?
In my opinion Black Lives Matter is fast becoming a black supremacist group. When it was first organized it's motives were better but not so much anymore.
 

humble soul

On Sabbatical from Rome
Member
From
Australia
Gender
Male
Messages
5,853
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Some police perhaps but lumping all LEO in one group is prejudice.
This is the problem. Sweeping generalisations cause all police to be tarred with the same brush. One question I have too...are there many black police officers?
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
From
Central Minnesota, USA
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
12,023
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
What news channel do you suggest that I watch. I would like to see both sides of the story reported
I found some information about this here.

MSNBC and CNN are notoriously left in the political perspective.
FOX news is one that I know leans toward the right.
The Wall Street Journal, BBC, NPR, and USA Today are considered pretty much centered according to the information at the link I provided above.
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
From
Central Minnesota, USA
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
12,023
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
This is the problem. Sweeping generalisations cause all police to be tarred with the same brush. One question I have too...are there many black police officers?
I found this website that shows some of this data. You can select a city to see how it compares. It shows the relationship of percentage of officers relative to the percentage of population by race/nationality. According to the site, the minority races are underrepresented in law enforcement. As to why that is, I do not know. Is it because minorities don't want the jobs or is there some level of discrimination going on or something else? I do not know.
 

Susannah

Susannah
Member
From
San Francisco Bay Area
Gender
Female
Messages
1,603
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
That explains why I am a liberal. LOL While I agree MSNBC and CNN are liberal, when I watch Fox news they actually lie. It disturbs me. Highlighting your point of view is one thing. Lying is quite another.

I make up my mind based on the videos. I can see with my own eyes that the policeman had George Floyd under control and could have stopped earlier. I actually saw George say twenty times "I cannot breathe." "I am going to die." Please stop . . .

People keep saying he was resisting arrest. He was at first but by the time they had him on the ground and handcuffed, he was not resisting arrest, he was trying to survive. What was the policeman thinking for eight minutes? That is a long time.

This is why I think this case is different. When the police shoot someone we all rationalize that he deserved it because he must have done something really bad. But eight minutes is different. I believe with all my heart if I had given a counterfeit bill to the cashier the police would have asked me where I got it and not tried to arrest me.

The news is not the best source for information I will admit. But I am not blind.

I will admit I am biased because my son in Black and the police did the same thing to him for drinking a beer on his 21st birthday. He was in the hospital for two days. The police report said he was posturing to the crowd and if had just shut his mouth they would not have slammed him to the ground. I was there and I heard the policeman say, "This ought to teach you a lesson."

There are only a few dozen police like this. Most of them are good people who want to help you. By the way de-funding does not mean shutting the police down. We need them. It means taking a small portion of the money and putting it toward social, after-school programs for our youth The Boy's Club. The Young Men's Christian Association, and Midnight basketball. More money for coaches and counselors. All these things helped my son. Denzel Washington was helped by The Boy's Club and he is a devote Christian and successful. These children need our help when they are young.

I also watch CBS Evening news. My final thought is that Black lives matter.
 
Last edited:

kiwidan

Supporter
Messages
16,939
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
This is the problem. Sweeping generalisations cause all police to be tarred with the same brush. One question I have too...are there many black police officers?

One thing I have learnt in life is to never generalise with a label when its not a fact.

For example, when someone flipped out in the name of Islam and went on a killing spree, I do not generalise and place all Muslims in the same box because of one idiot, just like the same if a police officer is negligent and incompetent or just down right crooked, I do not generalise and place the entire police force in the same box because of one officer.

Every individual is reposonsible for there own actions. You don't blame everyone or accuse an entire group or identity of people just because of some individuals.

I do not have double standards and I am not a hypocrite.
 
Last edited:

humble soul

On Sabbatical from Rome
Member
From
Australia
Gender
Male
Messages
5,853
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
One thing I have learnt in life is to never generalise with a label when its not a fact.

For example, when someone flipped out in the name of Islam and went on a killing spree, I do not generalise and place all Muslims in the same box because of one idiot, just like the same if a police officer is negligent and incompetent or just down right crooked, I do not generalise and place the entire police force in the same box because of one officer.

Every individual is reposonsible for there own actions. You don't blame everyone or accuse an entire group or identity of people just because of some individuals.

I do not have double standards and I am not a hypocrite.
All Kiwis love rugby Union.
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
From
Central Minnesota, USA
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
12,023
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
That explains why I am a liberal. LOL While I agree MSNBC and CNN are liberal, when I watch Fox news they actually lie. It disturbs me. Highlighting your point of view is one thing. Lying is quite another.
The same thing could be said about MSNBC and CNN. Lying implies intentional deception and unless you have verifiable proof that they intentionally lied, you are making a false accusation. Remember the 9th commandment? Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

You don't see the deception or misinformation or biased data with the liberal commentaries because they tickle your ears with what you want to hear. Likewise, those who look to conservative commentary alone don't see the misinformation or biased data for the same reason. As Christians we should be looking for truth and not just what feeds our own personal agendas.
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
From
Central Minnesota, USA
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
12,023
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
I believe with all my heart if I had given a counterfeit bill to the cashier the police would have asked me where I got it and not tried to arrest me.
You can believe that but the law makes it illegal to pass counterfeit money and if we get caught doing so, we will have to defend ourselves in court. Law enforcement officers are not judge and/or jury. Their job is to apprehend suspected criminals and that's it. They cannot decide who is or is not guilty.

That's where the problem comes in. Too many suspects try to give the arresting officer power to judge. What I mean by that is they don't respect the level of authority or understand the duties of the law enforcement officer so they argue and fight and put up resistance with the arresting officer. This forces the officer to use more force and the situation escalates. The right thing to do is to go along with the arrest, because that is what is going to happen anyway, and then make your arguments in court before a judge and/or jury.

My daughter's ex-boyfriend and my nephew are both in law enforcement. Some of the stories about how people react to them is hair-raising and for the simplest things. In some cases the officer wasn't even filing any charges but just performing an investigation and yet the people got belligerent with them. This is why some officers over time can become edgy. This is not an excuse. Just a reason for it.

I agree that the officer that applied his knee to the neck of George Floyd was using excessive force, especially when George was indicating that he couldn't breathe. I also agree the other officers with him were also in the wrong for not stepping in but I don't have all the details about what they experienced, heard, or saw so I can't pass judgment on any of them. That is what the courts are for. A single video is not enough evidence to try this case.

While his death was tragic and irresponsible I do not agree that George Floyd's death should be memorialized. He was not a hero and was nothing close to an upstanding citizen. We will never know about the counterfeit bills he tried to pass and whether it was intentional or not but his attempt to resist arrest certainly implies a level of questionable character.

I also will not hold all law enforcement officers accountable for the actions of one or a few officers. Just like, I will not assume that because George Floyd was black that all black people are criminal suspects and will resist arrest when confronted with LEO.

I am done apologizing and feeling guilty for the sins of other white people, past or present. God holds each of us responsible for our own sins and I will do likewise.
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
From
Central Minnesota, USA
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
12,023
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Amen . . . ❤
You just contradicted yourself. Earlier in this thread (post 62) you claimed that there is "institutional racism in this country and that the police treat black people different than they do white people." By this statement you are lumping all law enforcement into one group and not taking each according to his/her own character. But, now you agree with kiwidan's post that says each person is responsible for his/her own actions.
 

stovebolts

Staff member
Administrator
From
Michigan
Gender
Male
Messages
17,248
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
There are a couple of ways to look at the statistics about whites and blacks getting arrested. We can believe that more blacks than whites commit crimes, or we can believe more blacks get arrested because they are black.

When my son Karl was eight years old he was arrested for trespassing on the lawn of a man in the neighboring town. They booked him, took a mugshot and put him in jail overnight. When I asked why he was arrested, I was told to keep him out of their town. This was 1978.

The day Karl turned 21 he was drinking a beer in front of his dorm at U.C. Berkeley. The policed handed out tickets to his white friends. Karl said, "I am 21; I can drink." They pulled him out of the crowd, threw him onto the ground, handcuffed him and beat him with a baton. He was in the hospital for two days.

When Karl was 25 he got in an argument with two white men. He called the police for help. They arrested Karl and let the others go. The case was thrown out of court, but I never got my bail money back.

When my son was 26 he was on his way home from work. He was a probation officer. He talked to a girl on the street and she gave him her phone number. When she got home her father was angry at her for being late so she told him Karl had detained her against her will. Karl had a trial and was found not guilty.

I could go on, because there is more, but I am trying to explain that not all black people being arrested deserved to be arrested. So I don't really trust the statistics or the police.

As for the "system." Even though he was acquitted for kidnapping he lost his job, his real estate license, and his teaching credential. He ended up becoming self-employed as a paralegal because he could not get a job after than.
That's a different issue all together. Karl and I could swap stories for sure.

If you read what you wrote, you said more blacks are arrested than white. Statistically, that's not true.

What is true, is a higher percentage of the black population is arrested when you compare their percentage against the percentage of white people arrested.

What I don't like is when the media says what you've said, because it's not true.

What the media doesn't tell you is that crime rates are higher in black communities than they are in white communities which is why a higher percentage of blacks are arrested than whites. Again, the key is "percentage" of an ethnic population.

Here is another thing. There will always be bad cops. In my teens and early 20's I had hair down the middle of my back. At 21 I stopped doing drugs and rarely drank. Yet I would get pulled over and have my car searched. Why? Because I looked like a hoodlum.

Profiling exists, and we are all guilty of judging somebody by their looks. Jesus warns us about showing partiality, because it's a human trait within our sinful nature. As Christians, we are to take those sinful thoughts captive.

Sadly, not every police officer is a Christian and for some that are, they continue to willfully sin in this area believing grace will cover their sin.

In other words, there are bad cops out there, and I've had the bruises to know there are bad cops out there. But percentage wise, most are good honest folk.

Just like the media wants you to believe more black people are killed or arrested by police than white people ( not true) , the also want you to believe more cops are bad than good. ( Not true).
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
From
Central Minnesota, USA
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
12,023
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Profiling exists, and we are all guilty of judging somebody by their looks. Jesus warns us about showing partiality, because it's a human trait within our sinful nature. As Christians, we are to take those sinful thoughts captive.
Absolutely agree. After 9/11 how many of us would feel uncomfortable if while sitting on a plane during the boarding process we saw a half-dozen middle easterners board wearing turbans? We profiled during WWII when we placed Japanese citizens in internment camps. We did the same thing with German-Americans but concentrated more on the coastal areas so my family was not affected, being from MN farm country.
 

jasonc

Member
Christian
Yes
Messages
41,706
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Absolutely agree. After 9/11 how many of us would feel uncomfortable if while sitting on a plane during the boarding process we saw a half-dozen middle easterners board wearing turbans? We profiled during WWII when we placed Japanese citizens in internment camps. We did the same thing with German-Americans but concentrated more on the coastal areas so my family was not affected, being from MN farm country.
The japs were placed in camps was over immigration issues having naught to do with loyalty ,no jap was put in,a camp in,Hawaii .
 

Susannah

Susannah
Member
From
San Francisco Bay Area
Gender
Female
Messages
1,603
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
You do know that the word you used to describe people who are Japanese is derogatory?

This is an interesting discussion. I agree with most of what SteveBolts said. We cannot generalize. We cannot assume the worst. We cannot always believe the news. But we can, in our little corner of the world, treat people with respect and pray that the changes that God wants happen in a timely manner. At all times we represent Christ and must act accordingly. The world is watching. Our numbers are dwindling. We must make a point of loving our neighbor no matter who they are. My neighbors are noisy and I have been complaining because I love peace and quiet. So I have decided to adjust to their lifestyle with patience and serenity. As my views about BLM, my mentor SteveBolts explained to me that I don't always have to be right. What a novel idea. LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: WIP

Susannah

Susannah
Member
From
San Francisco Bay Area
Gender
Female
Messages
1,603
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
You just contradicted yourself. Earlier in this thread (post 62) you claimed that there is "institutional racism in this country and that the police treat black people different than they do white people." By this statement you are lumping all law enforcement into one group and not taking each according to his/her own character. But, now you agree with kiwidan's post that says each person is responsible for his/her own actions.

I stand corrected. Some police treat some black people differently than white people. I worked for a professor at the Law School in Berkeley. My job was to type up reports about the Oakland Police Department. One report said that the police targeted "large, tall, buffed up" black men because they are more dangerous and look like they just got out of prison. My son is 6'6" and weighs 250 lbs. So he was always handcuffed the minute the police arrived and put in the squad car while they determined what was going on. Even when he called the police for help.

So SOME police treat SOME people different than others. They are always nice to me. They almost always send me to the mental hospital on a 51/50. But I have been arrested three times. A long time ago of course. LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: WIP
Top