Devil's Devices

[Quath]

Passion of Christ adds nothing that was not in the Bible. At the most you have Jesus tortured before death. That is a lot less than what many POWs or victims of the Christian Inquisition went through.

It is written that no one goes to the father but by Jesus!

So it is written? I am commenting on how the written Bible makes no sense. God could easily declare "Everyone is allowed to come to me" or"Everyone comes through Jesus, but you don't need to believe in it for it to be true" or whatever.

It is to see who will believe in Jesus and who won't....

And why is that a good criteria for the riches of heaven?

not say no son, do not touch that, it is for your own protection!

By the same analogy, I should punish the child for eternity for thinking of touching the stove.

Quath

 

[Vic C.]

...he will be gone in a short time when the 1000year empire begins.

Where in the Bible does it say that?

Revelations. then after the 1000 years he will be let go for a short time and the countries will wage war against christ, and then All will be cleansed and the 8th eternal day of history (1000 yr a day) begins... a new earth and a new heaven.

Yes, Revelation...but what does Revelation say? I think we have been through this before. (well maybe not you, but I have)

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,...
...Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here we are told that the devil is destroyed (tormented, "gone") after the thousand years, not before.

 

[Joeri]

...he will be gone in a short time when the 1000year empire begins.

Where in the Bible does it say that?

Revelations. then after the 1000 years he will be let go for a short time and the countries will wage war against christ, and then All will be cleansed and the 8th eternal day of history (1000 yr a day) begins... a new earth and a new heaven.

Yes, Revelation...but what does Revelation say? I think we have been through this before. (well maybe not you, but I have)

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,...
...Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Here we are told that the devil is destroyed (tormented, "gone") after the thousand years, not before.

thats what ive said, imprisonment for a thousand years, then let gone for a short time, and then tormented forever for torturing the Son of God and the rest of humanity

 

[reznwerks]

I've asked others without success now I will ask you. Using your bible can you show me anywhere in the bible where Satan is guilty of anything other than temptation? Can you show me anywhere in the bible where Satan killed anyone as compared to God....

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Evidence evidence evidence. Do you have any evidence from the bible to support the accusations you and the original post claimed? This thread was started with an accusation without examples or evidence and you posted a passage doing the same.

 

[DivineNames]

Try to imagine how silly this story looks. Some authority would kill an innocent and let a guilty man go?

The Jesus sacrifice makes no sense:

The Atonement is fundamental to Christianity, if the Atonement isn't true then what is left of Christian theology?

Are there any Christians who can actually explain it in a coherent way?

I'm not asking for a complete technical description of how Jesus achieved our salvation. I'm not asking for it to be proved to be true.

I'm just asking if it can be made to look moderately reasonable.

 

[Joeri]

Try to imagine how silly this story looks. Some authority would kill an innocent and let a guilty man go?

The Jesus sacrifice makes no sense:

The Atonement is fundamental to Christianity, if the Atonement isn't true then what is left of Christian theology?

Are there any Christians who can actually explain it in a coherent way?

I'm not asking for a complete technical description of how Jesus achieved our salvation. I'm not asking for it to be proved to be true.

I'm just asking if it can be made to look moderately reasonable.

If you want to explain it in a coherent way, you have to know the whole story, and that story wont be finished until The second coming of christ.

Just like some other things in the book made no sense until the first coming of christ.

 

[DivineNames]

credo quia absurdum est

Also known as Tertullian's dictum or paradox. Literally, I believe because it is absurd: that is, the very impossibility of a proposition becomes (mostly in theology) a kind of motivation for belief in it. Only certain absurd propositions have such magnetism.



credo ut intelligam

I believe in order to understand. A formula of Anselm's implying that the intelligibility of Christian doctrine can only become evident after belief in it. The idea, especially frustrating to atheists, has echoes in the doctrine associated with the later work of Wittgenstein, according to which immersion in a way of life is necessary for understanding its specific structures and guiding concepts.


(Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy)



So is the Atonement an absurd belief? Or do you need to believe in it first before it makes any sense? Or can it be reasonably explained?