RevSRE
Member
This is a study I am working on and ASK FOR your help and Ideas.
Was God's plan about sin and salvation or was it about Fellowship with a person that CHOSE TO LOVE HIM?
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In the beginning God created the heaven and earth and it was good.
God created man and woman and it was good.
The next point we jump to in the study is man disobeying God. And we often come to some, I think, unfounded conclusions.
Possibly we need to start with WHY God created all the world and Mankind in the first place. We need this foundation before we get to the Fall and a medieval intermix of ideas from many sources.
We will look at :
Why did God create man?
Why COULD man fall?
Why did God not just kill Adam & Eve and start over?
What other religious practices and fortunes affect the outcome?
To Know God and fellowship with Him we must: “Obey His Voice.” Learn from worship. Know the Father in all we do.
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: Jer_7:23
We so often look at the creation and jump right to Adam disobeying God that we miss the point of the story, and the foundation of all the rest of out understanding and theology.
WHY DID GOD CREATE THE WORLD AND MAN IN THE FIRST PLLACE?
The question has been asked, “Why did God create the world and man if He knew man would sin?” Like so many questions this one may be placing the emphasis in the wrong place.
Look at a few ideas that may help us understand.
1. God, eternal, Holy, self-existent, unchanging, all knowing, sovereign, made the world and man because HE WANTED TOO. God was making a creature for fellowship, love, and service. Someone to commune with, this fellowship, I think, is the key!
2. God is eternal. He does not live in eternity, minute by minute, day by day, God INHABITS eternity, self-existent, NOW. All of eternity, every second of time, now present before God. Yes, He saw the choices people would make, not to love and worship and fellowship with Him. Yes, He saw all the ones that by free will choice would choose not to love or know Him. IS 57:15
3. But, so long ago when God looked at eternity He saw the ones that choose to love Him. Yes, He saw all our sins and failures. But, He looked beyond all that and saw fellowship with the ones that choose to follow Him. He saw in eternity that there would be some that elect by their free moral choice to serve and fellowship with Him.
4. Yes, He saw His holiness and righteousness and He knew the price of man’s sin would have to be paid. Yes, He saw the Cross. Before time He knew He would go to that old rugged cross in my place…
HE DID IT ANYWAY!
Some say man cannot have a free will because the sovereignty of God would be limited. Nothing can happen that is not the will of God. OK, God’s will is that the creature in His world can choose to serve Him or not. The “Not” and all that follows from people not obeying God is the result of people choosing to disobey God, using a free will choice that God gave them.
How important is that choice?
God seeing eternity, knowing some would choose the world and not obey Him, Then looking to all who would obey and fellowship with Him, loved us so much, EVEN SEEING THE CROSS; HE DID IT ANYWAY!
Everyone in Gods eternal Kingdom will be there because they chose to be, It is all about fellowship with God, CHOOSING to FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD!
At some point here we come to the “Image of God in man”. There are almost as many opinions to the meaning of this as there are people. Still, I will venture to offer one more.
Given: God made man for fellowship.
Given: God and man are Persons.
Given: God and man have reason (knowledge), feelings (emotion) and the ability to act (free will).
I feel the best definition of the Image of God in man is, The ability to , “With knowledge of result”, MAKE A CHOICE. No other creature in creation has such an ability. I will further state that for God to truly and personally fellowship with man, man must have the reason, emotion, and free will, (that is to say the Image of GOD), “AT LEAST TO A LEVEL TO FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD.
Why COULD man fall.
If man was to be a truly Free Will agent, that could “Choose to fellowship with God “OR NOT” man had to be able and free to choose not to know God! The point here is God wanted a being that could and would, choose to know Him, to Love Him, to serve Him, TO FELLOWSHIP.
Why did God not just kill Adam and Eve and start over?
First, God gave them the Right to choose. They may not have had the “knowledge of Good and Evil”, but they had the word and command of God, that much they knew, they knew the result “you will surely Die”. It is interesting how when they knew the result, they knew what God Said, they put the desire for knowledge and power above obedience. They were not so different from so many millions through History that have made the same choice. God did not just kill them and start over because God gave them the choice. Obey me, fellowship with me, or obey self love self serve another.
But, God gave them the choice!
So, I ask how important is that choice? And the answer is to me profound.
God in love to protect that right of choice and offer man a resolution for making the wrong choices, HIMSELF PAID the debt of my sin on an old rugged cross. The choice that is the right to make the choice is sealed with the blood of Calvary.
Was God's plan about sin and salvation or was it about Fellowship with a person that CHOSE TO LOVE HIM?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the beginning God created the heaven and earth and it was good.
God created man and woman and it was good.
The next point we jump to in the study is man disobeying God. And we often come to some, I think, unfounded conclusions.
Possibly we need to start with WHY God created all the world and Mankind in the first place. We need this foundation before we get to the Fall and a medieval intermix of ideas from many sources.
We will look at :
Why did God create man?
Why COULD man fall?
Why did God not just kill Adam & Eve and start over?
What other religious practices and fortunes affect the outcome?
To Know God and fellowship with Him we must: “Obey His Voice.” Learn from worship. Know the Father in all we do.
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: Jer_7:23
We so often look at the creation and jump right to Adam disobeying God that we miss the point of the story, and the foundation of all the rest of out understanding and theology.
WHY DID GOD CREATE THE WORLD AND MAN IN THE FIRST PLLACE?
The question has been asked, “Why did God create the world and man if He knew man would sin?” Like so many questions this one may be placing the emphasis in the wrong place.
Look at a few ideas that may help us understand.
1. God, eternal, Holy, self-existent, unchanging, all knowing, sovereign, made the world and man because HE WANTED TOO. God was making a creature for fellowship, love, and service. Someone to commune with, this fellowship, I think, is the key!
2. God is eternal. He does not live in eternity, minute by minute, day by day, God INHABITS eternity, self-existent, NOW. All of eternity, every second of time, now present before God. Yes, He saw the choices people would make, not to love and worship and fellowship with Him. Yes, He saw all the ones that by free will choice would choose not to love or know Him. IS 57:15
3. But, so long ago when God looked at eternity He saw the ones that choose to love Him. Yes, He saw all our sins and failures. But, He looked beyond all that and saw fellowship with the ones that choose to follow Him. He saw in eternity that there would be some that elect by their free moral choice to serve and fellowship with Him.
4. Yes, He saw His holiness and righteousness and He knew the price of man’s sin would have to be paid. Yes, He saw the Cross. Before time He knew He would go to that old rugged cross in my place…
HE DID IT ANYWAY!
Some say man cannot have a free will because the sovereignty of God would be limited. Nothing can happen that is not the will of God. OK, God’s will is that the creature in His world can choose to serve Him or not. The “Not” and all that follows from people not obeying God is the result of people choosing to disobey God, using a free will choice that God gave them.
How important is that choice?
God seeing eternity, knowing some would choose the world and not obey Him, Then looking to all who would obey and fellowship with Him, loved us so much, EVEN SEEING THE CROSS; HE DID IT ANYWAY!
Everyone in Gods eternal Kingdom will be there because they chose to be, It is all about fellowship with God, CHOOSING to FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD!
At some point here we come to the “Image of God in man”. There are almost as many opinions to the meaning of this as there are people. Still, I will venture to offer one more.
Given: God made man for fellowship.
Given: God and man are Persons.
Given: God and man have reason (knowledge), feelings (emotion) and the ability to act (free will).
I feel the best definition of the Image of God in man is, The ability to , “With knowledge of result”, MAKE A CHOICE. No other creature in creation has such an ability. I will further state that for God to truly and personally fellowship with man, man must have the reason, emotion, and free will, (that is to say the Image of GOD), “AT LEAST TO A LEVEL TO FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD.
Why COULD man fall.
If man was to be a truly Free Will agent, that could “Choose to fellowship with God “OR NOT” man had to be able and free to choose not to know God! The point here is God wanted a being that could and would, choose to know Him, to Love Him, to serve Him, TO FELLOWSHIP.
Why did God not just kill Adam and Eve and start over?
First, God gave them the Right to choose. They may not have had the “knowledge of Good and Evil”, but they had the word and command of God, that much they knew, they knew the result “you will surely Die”. It is interesting how when they knew the result, they knew what God Said, they put the desire for knowledge and power above obedience. They were not so different from so many millions through History that have made the same choice. God did not just kill them and start over because God gave them the choice. Obey me, fellowship with me, or obey self love self serve another.
But, God gave them the choice!
So, I ask how important is that choice? And the answer is to me profound.
God in love to protect that right of choice and offer man a resolution for making the wrong choices, HIMSELF PAID the debt of my sin on an old rugged cross. The choice that is the right to make the choice is sealed with the blood of Calvary.