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Dave Slayer
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Did Jesus pray to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane? Was Jesus also His Father?
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Jesus 'tasted death' to bring many sons to glory...wonderful... :amen and :amen again!Rick W said:Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
If you believe in Trinitarism, then Yahshua prayed to himself, and did miracles for himself, and spoke to himself.Dave Slayer said:Did Jesus pray to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane? Was Jesus also His Father?
Imagican said:And to believe in 'trinity' you MUST ignore MUCH of what Christ STATED HIMSELF. For He NEVER claimed to BE God but The Sion of God. And He also stated that the Father is GREATER than He. That there are THINGS that ONLY The Father KNOWS. ALL that He possessed was GIVEN Him BY God.
Blessings,
MEC
Imagican said:Ok Stranger,
How about a 'third option'. I don't really CARE if someone chooses to label the Holy Spirit AS a person. I personally DON'T believe that the Spirit could IN ANY WAY be defined AS a 'person' but that is NOT the point.
What DOES concern me is that God has stated, Christ has stated, and the apostles stated that there is ONLY one TRUE God. And we KNOW from the words of God, Christ AND the apostles that The Father IS God.
Is Christ divine? Absolutely. The question becomes is Christ divine AS God. And my answer is NO. Christ TOLD us that when we pray we are to pray TO God THE Father. He NEVER offered example of us praying TO Him.
But, if this 'trinity' were TRUTH, then we could pray to ANY PART of it and be correct in our worship. I do NOT believe this has EVER been offered. We have been TOLD to pray TO God IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. As in, Dear God, these things we ASK in the NAME of Jesus Christ. And this PURELY offers that the PRAISE is to GOD for the offering of His Son. And through this offering we now have a 'mediator', (something BETWEEN us and God), not a 'third PART' of God.
And the ONLY purpose that I have been able to discern for the 'creation' of this; "Jesus IS God'' is to TURN The Son INTO God Himself. And THAT, my friends, is UTTER denial OF The Son.
Blessings,
MEC
Have you red my commentary at one on one debate? viewtopic.php?f=44&t=36270stranger said:Imagican said:Ok Stranger,
How about a 'third option'. I don't really CARE if someone chooses to label the Holy Spirit AS a person. I personally DON'T believe that the Spirit could IN ANY WAY be defined AS a 'person' but that is NOT the point.
What DOES concern me is that God has stated, Christ has stated, and the apostles stated that there is ONLY one TRUE God. And we KNOW from the words of God, Christ AND the apostles that The Father IS God.
Is Christ divine? Absolutely. The question becomes is Christ divine AS God. And my answer is NO. Christ TOLD us that when we pray we are to pray TO God THE Father. He NEVER offered example of us praying TO Him.
But, if this 'trinity' were TRUTH, then we could pray to ANY PART of it and be correct in our worship. I do NOT believe this has EVER been offered. We have been TOLD to pray TO God IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. As in, Dear God, these things we ASK in the NAME of Jesus Christ. And this PURELY offers that the PRAISE is to GOD for the offering of His Son. And through this offering we now have a 'mediator', (something BETWEEN us and God), not a 'third PART' of God.
And the ONLY purpose that I have been able to discern for the 'creation' of this; "Jesus IS God'' is to TURN The Son INTO God Himself. And THAT, my friends, is UTTER denial OF The Son.
Blessings,
MEC
Hi MEC,
Best look at some examples then....
Thomas the apostle of Christ said to Christ: 'my Lord and my God' upon finally seeing and touching the resurrected Christ in John 26:26-30.
When Thomas says 'my God' - 'my' means Thomas ie Christ is Thomas' God. It is a relational term similar to saying God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ... and Thomas.
We agree that the Father is God, but why does Thomas call the resurrected Christ 'my Lord and my God'? Do you see the dilemma?
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