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Did Jesus pray to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dave Slayer
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Dave Slayer

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Did Jesus pray to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane? Was Jesus also His Father?
 
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
 
Rick W said:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Jesus 'tasted death' to bring many sons to glory...wonderful... :amen and :amen again!
 
"Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Philippians 2:4-8
 
Question:

why do you suppose that the word 'robbery' was used?

Do you reacon that it was used to connotate what the 'mindset of Christ' just happened to BE?

Christ openly and willingly offered that ALL that He possessed was GIVEN HIM of the Father. So, the word 'robbery' was used to show that Christ TOOK nothing upon HIMSELF so far as POWER is concerned. He simply ACCEPTED. Now, if HE, as Satan, had attempted to TAKE power, then it would have been considered ROBBERY.

Christ prayed to His beloved Father in the garden. He prayed for the courage and strength FROM the Father to be ABLE to fulfill His mission.

I believe that MOST people that believe Jesus to BE God have simply NOT followed through with a complete reconing of scripture.

Paul acknowledges that God is OUR God AND THE God of Christ as well. This statement ALONE is able to disprove 'trinity'. And Paul offers it not once BUT OVER AND OVER.

Jesus SAID that He IS The Son of God. Not Son of the Father, ('trinity', as in Father, Son and Spirit). God stated that Christ IS HIS SON. The apostles stated that Christ IS The Son of God. The apostles stated that God IS Christ's Father.

Instead of picking and choosing individual scripture in which lie mystery, why not simply ACCEPT what has been offered IN TRUTH?

God has NOT hidden His identity. Christ Himself proclaimed God as His Father. And we were WARNED that there WOULD come those that would introduce doctrine NOT OFFERED by the Christ or His apostles. ALL that 'trinitarians' NEED do is offer WHERE Christ OR the apostles offered 'trinity', to SHOW that this IS doctrine TAUGHT by them. If you cannot, then it is OBVIOUS where this doctrine came from. If it DIDN'T come from God, Christ or the apostles, then it came from MEN.

How absurd it is to hear some that would offer that Jesus WAS INDEED praying to Himself, for OUR sake. When ASKED how we are to pray, Christ didn't hessitate to offer that we are to pray to OUR FATHER. Christ IS THE SON. So it is perfectly CLEAR that when Christ prayed, He prayed TO GOD, His Father.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Let's look at the NIV version of this passage:

5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

a - footnote says "or in the form of"
b- footnotes says "or the form"

Here's what I glean from the passage:

1. Our attitude should be the same as that of Jesus
2. What attitude is that? An attitude of servanthood (vs. 6 and 7)

Summary: Even Jesus, being in the form of God (vs 6) considered himself to be a servant.
 
And let us consider that; 'in the form of' is simply stating that BEFORE Christ became manifest in the flesh He WAS in the FORM of God. And that FORM is Spirit. For that is EXACTLY what we have been TOLD concerning the FORM of God.

And by NO MEANS does this offering even INDICATE that Jesus Christ IS God Himself. For it plainly states that He couldn't even GRASP such suggestion that He is EQUAL to God Himself, The Father.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Dave Slayer said:
Did Jesus pray to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane? Was Jesus also His Father?
If you believe in Trinitarism, then Yahshua prayed to himself, and did miracles for himself, and spoke to himself.
 
And to believe in 'trinity' you MUST ignore MUCH of what Christ STATED HIMSELF. For He NEVER claimed to BE God but The Sion of God. And He also stated that the Father is GREATER than He. That there are THINGS that ONLY The Father KNOWS. ALL that He possessed was GIVEN Him BY God.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Imagican said:
And to believe in 'trinity' you MUST ignore MUCH of what Christ STATED HIMSELF. For He NEVER claimed to BE God but The Sion of God. And He also stated that the Father is GREATER than He. That there are THINGS that ONLY The Father KNOWS. ALL that He possessed was GIVEN Him BY God.

Blessings,

MEC


Hi MEC,

The best way to clarify what you are saying is to look at what you say about God and the trinity and what church (if any) agrees with what you are saying. The word trinity is not in scripture like many words that have a theological development - but the word doesn't trouble me because I read it as 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit' who do appear in scripture. The real issue is not the word (trinity) but the divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I think you would agree that the Father is God, and Jesus Christ is the Son of God, (on this we probably agree); but :

would you sat that the Holy Spirit is a divine person?

NOW if you say yes - then I would suggest that you functionally believe in what the trinity means.

If you say no, then the reason why you oppose the trinity has not to do with Jesus (whom I am assuming you believe is the Son of God), but rather that the Holy Spirit is not a person.

So which of the above best articulates what you are saying?

br
 
Ok Stranger,

How about a 'third option'. I don't really CARE if someone chooses to label the Holy Spirit AS a person. I personally DON'T believe that the Spirit could IN ANY WAY be defined AS a 'person' but that is NOT the point.

What DOES concern me is that God has stated, Christ has stated, and the apostles stated that there is ONLY one TRUE God. And we KNOW from the words of God, Christ AND the apostles that The Father IS God.

Is Christ divine? Absolutely. The question becomes is Christ divine AS God. And my answer is NO. Christ TOLD us that when we pray we are to pray TO God THE Father. He NEVER offered example of us praying TO Him.

But, if this 'trinity' were TRUTH, then we could pray to ANY PART of it and be correct in our worship. I do NOT believe this has EVER been offered. We have been TOLD to pray TO God IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. As in, Dear God, these things we ASK in the NAME of Jesus Christ. And this PURELY offers that the PRAISE is to GOD for the offering of His Son. And through this offering we now have a 'mediator', (something BETWEEN us and God), not a 'third PART' of God.

And the ONLY purpose that I have been able to discern for the 'creation' of this; "Jesus IS God'' is to TURN The Son INTO God Himself. And THAT, my friends, is UTTER denial OF The Son.

Blessings,

MEC
 
Imagican said:
Ok Stranger,

How about a 'third option'. I don't really CARE if someone chooses to label the Holy Spirit AS a person. I personally DON'T believe that the Spirit could IN ANY WAY be defined AS a 'person' but that is NOT the point.

What DOES concern me is that God has stated, Christ has stated, and the apostles stated that there is ONLY one TRUE God. And we KNOW from the words of God, Christ AND the apostles that The Father IS God.

Is Christ divine? Absolutely. The question becomes is Christ divine AS God. And my answer is NO. Christ TOLD us that when we pray we are to pray TO God THE Father. He NEVER offered example of us praying TO Him.

But, if this 'trinity' were TRUTH, then we could pray to ANY PART of it and be correct in our worship. I do NOT believe this has EVER been offered. We have been TOLD to pray TO God IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. As in, Dear God, these things we ASK in the NAME of Jesus Christ. And this PURELY offers that the PRAISE is to GOD for the offering of His Son. And through this offering we now have a 'mediator', (something BETWEEN us and God), not a 'third PART' of God.

And the ONLY purpose that I have been able to discern for the 'creation' of this; "Jesus IS God'' is to TURN The Son INTO God Himself. And THAT, my friends, is UTTER denial OF The Son.

Blessings,

MEC

Hi MEC,

Best look at some examples then....

Thomas the apostle of Christ said to Christ: 'my Lord and my God' upon finally seeing and touching the resurrected Christ in John 26:26-30.

When Thomas says 'my God' - 'my' means Thomas ie Christ is Thomas' God. It is a relational term similar to saying God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ... and Thomas.

We agree that the Father is God, but why does Thomas call the resurrected Christ 'my Lord and my God'? Do you see the dilemma?

br
 
stranger said:
Imagican said:
Ok Stranger,

How about a 'third option'. I don't really CARE if someone chooses to label the Holy Spirit AS a person. I personally DON'T believe that the Spirit could IN ANY WAY be defined AS a 'person' but that is NOT the point.

What DOES concern me is that God has stated, Christ has stated, and the apostles stated that there is ONLY one TRUE God. And we KNOW from the words of God, Christ AND the apostles that The Father IS God.

Is Christ divine? Absolutely. The question becomes is Christ divine AS God. And my answer is NO. Christ TOLD us that when we pray we are to pray TO God THE Father. He NEVER offered example of us praying TO Him.

But, if this 'trinity' were TRUTH, then we could pray to ANY PART of it and be correct in our worship. I do NOT believe this has EVER been offered. We have been TOLD to pray TO God IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. As in, Dear God, these things we ASK in the NAME of Jesus Christ. And this PURELY offers that the PRAISE is to GOD for the offering of His Son. And through this offering we now have a 'mediator', (something BETWEEN us and God), not a 'third PART' of God.

And the ONLY purpose that I have been able to discern for the 'creation' of this; "Jesus IS God'' is to TURN The Son INTO God Himself. And THAT, my friends, is UTTER denial OF The Son.

Blessings,

MEC

Hi MEC,

Best look at some examples then....

Thomas the apostle of Christ said to Christ: 'my Lord and my God' upon finally seeing and touching the resurrected Christ in John 26:26-30.

When Thomas says 'my God' - 'my' means Thomas ie Christ is Thomas' God. It is a relational term similar to saying God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ... and Thomas.

We agree that the Father is God, but why does Thomas call the resurrected Christ 'my Lord and my God'? Do you see the dilemma?

br
Have you red my commentary at one on one debate? viewtopic.php?f=44&t=36270
 
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