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Disagreeing with Jesus

  • Thread starter Thread starter elijah23
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elijah23

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It is not easy to do everything that Jesus commanded us to do, but we do have to obey him, don’t we? Jesus told us to repent of our sin (Matthew 4:17)—we have to do that, don’t we? He told us we have to be perfect (Matthew 5:48)—we have to do that, don’t we? Disagreeing with him isn’t an option, is it?
 
The only thing we HAVE to do is follow Him, and be in close relationship with Him. Obeying comes as a natural outflow when we are in love with Him. He is Master. He will train us to hear Him. Just be willing.
 
I agree with alabaster completely. The moment we begin looking at our relationship with God as things that we have to do we are missing the point completely. If you look at Galatians 3, that's what the church there seemed to be doing in a way. Paul was reprimanding them because even though they had started off on the right track, it seems that at the time of the letter they had begun to try to earn their salvation by the works of the law. That basically means that they had made it into a list of things they had to do rather than a true relationship where good works begin to overflow naturally.
 
Alabaster said:
The only thing we HAVE to do is follow Him, and be in close relationship with Him. Obeying comes as a natural outflow when we are in love with Him. He is Master. He will train us to hear Him. Just be willing.
Click to expand...

The purpose of the Lord’s commands is to keep us out of trouble.
 
yoamocuy said:
I agree with alabaster completely. The moment we begin looking at our relationship with God as things that we have to do we are missing the point completely. If you look at Galatians 3, that's what the church there seemed to be doing in a way. Paul was reprimanding them because even though they had started off on the right track, it seems that at the time of the letter they had begun to try to earn their salvation by the works of the law. That basically means that they had made it into a list of things they had to do rather than a true relationship where good works begin to overflow naturally.
Click to expand...

As I told Alabaster, the purpose of the Lord’s commands is to keep us out of trouble.
 
elijah23 said:
It is not easy to do everything that Jesus commanded us to do, but we do have to obey him, don’t we? Jesus told us to repent of our sin (Matthew 4:17)—we have to do that, don’t we? He told us we have to be perfect (Matthew 5:48)—we have to do that, don’t we? Disagreeing with him isn’t an option, is it?
Click to expand...

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain.


Elijah, the problem with you beating the continual drum of the standard of perfection is that is becomes fleshly, and smacks of human ability. I doubt you have any concept of original sin. It sounds so very pelagian. Yes, the standard is perfection, repentance is demanded, but when you go on and on about those issues and never speak of the grace of God. My guess is that your actual theology is a complete denial of the sufficiency of Grace.
 
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elijah23 said:
The purpose of the Lord’s commands is to keep us out of trouble.
Click to expand...

That is a function of our obedience. The purpose of the Law was to reveal Christ, and to bring people into a faith in God.
 
mondar said:
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain.


Elijah, the problem with you beating the continual drum of the standard of perfection is that is becomes fleshly, and smacks of human ability. I doubt you have any concept of original sin. It sounds so very pelagian. Yes, the standard is perfection, repentance is demanded, but when you go on and on about those issues and never speak of the grace of God. My guess is that your actual theology is a complete denial of the sufficiency of Grace.
Click to expand...

My theology is rather simple.

Yes, Jesus saves us from the trouble we get in because of our sin, but we really can’t be happy until we stop sinning. Experience has taught me that. When I give in to temptation I am miserable. When I do not give in to temptation, my peace is indescribable.

As for original sin, some people use that to justify their own sin, don’t they? I think we should take responsibility for our own sin.
 
Alabaster said:
That is a function of our obedience. The purpose of the Law was to reveal Christ, and to bring people into a faith in God.
Click to expand...

The Lord knows that if we murder, commit adultery, steal, etc. we will get into all kinds of trouble If we obey his commandments, we will stay out of trouble.
 
elijah23 said:
The Lord knows that if we murder, commit adultery, steal, etc. we will get into all kinds of trouble If we obey his commandments, we will stay out of trouble.
Click to expand...

legalism. while true, but lets be honest here. do we always to the minute t do good.

i have a challenge and its a choice

list the sins you did today.

and start when we woke up.

shall we and see that we need the grace and will to do from the lord.
 
elijah23 said:
The Lord knows that if we murder, commit adultery, steal, etc. we will get into all kinds of trouble If we obey his commandments, we will stay out of trouble.
Click to expand...

We know it, too! We still find trouble even when we don't sin! Life comes with trials, but if we are consistent in our walk with Christ, we will experience regular breakthroughs.
 
jasoncran said:
legalism. while true, but lets be honest here. do we always to the minute t do good.

i have a challenge and its a choice

list the sins you did today.

and start when we woke up.

shall we and see that we need the grace and will to do from the lord.
Click to expand...

The Lord gave us commandments to help us through life. For instance, he knew if we committed adultery, we’d get into trouble, so he commanded us not to commit adultery.
 
elijah23 said:
The Lord gave us commandments to help us through life. For instance, he knew if we committed adultery, we’d get into trouble, so he commanded us not to commit adultery.
Click to expand...

theres more then those. just the basic ten that are sin.
by that thinking could i steal a penny?
or speed? or so on.
 
elijah23 said:
The Lord gave us commandments to help us through life. For instance, he knew if we committed adultery, we’d get into trouble, so he commanded us not to commit adultery.
Click to expand...

Not really...commandments were given so we would see our sinfulness and our need for a Saviour, not to help us through life, but so that we could have LIFE through Jesus Christ and His work of the cross.

God is holy and hates sin. Sin is what separates us from God, and keeps us from having fellowship with Him. [quote="Is. 59:2] But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.[/quote]

As believers, we have been "perfected forever" in the eyes of God because we are "in Christ". When we commit sins, we cut off fellowship until we confess our sins and get back to a right relationship with Him. I guess you could say we "get into trouble" with God when He chastens us as sons. Maybe that's what you meant, and if so, please excuse this post.
 
jasoncran said:
theres more then those. just the basic ten that are sin.
by that thinking could i steal a penny?
or speed? or so on.
Click to expand...

Even if you steal just a penny, you’ll wonder if someone knows and hates you for what you did. You’re better off not stealing the penny.
 
glorydaz said:
Not really...commandments were given so we would see our sinfulness and our need for a Saviour, not to help us through life, but so that we could have LIFE through Jesus Christ and His work of the cross.
Click to expand...

There might be more than one reason why the Lord gave us commandments, but if we break them, we will get into trouble.
 
glorydaz said:
God is holy and hates sin. Sin is what separates us from God, and keeps us from having fellowship with Him.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is one of the problems with sin—it separates us from our Lord. However, if I rob a bank, I also will probably spend several years in prison.
 
glorydaz said:
Not really...commandments were given so we would see our sinfulness and our need for a Saviour, not to help us through life, but so that we could have LIFE through Jesus Christ and His work of the cross.

God is holy and hates sin. Sin is what separates us from God, and keeps us from having fellowship with Him.

As believers, we have been "perfected forever" in the eyes of God because we are "in Christ". When we commit sins, we cut off fellowship until we confess our sins and get back to a right relationship with Him. I guess you could say we "get into trouble" with God when He chastens us as sons. Maybe that's what you meant, and if so, please excuse this post.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup
 
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