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Do we have to have the Holy Ghost in order to be saved?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dave Slayer
  • Start date Start date
Adullam said:
It sounds like a no-brainer to answer yes, but there is more to the question than meets the eye. Can a person HAVE the HS?

Some who have been filled with the Spirit will not be saved. Balaam is a fine example. Also Jesus said that many will come to Him and say Lord Lord! They did many spiritual works but their characters remained foreign to HIm.

So then "have been'S" can quickly become "has beens!"

Were the Ninevites filled with the Spirit when they repented?

Was the "good" samamritan filled with the HS when he simply helped his fellow man?

What kind of religion are we building here?




People commonly confuse gifting with godly character. You are not saved for your gift.

It is a question of anointing vs Life. Don't ever confuse the two!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure - actually in fact I am sure - that Balaam was not filled with the Holy Spirit.

If I'm not mistaken scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit came 'upon' him which is different to saying it 'filled' him.

Many of course, prior to Jesus coming in the flesh, have been moved by the Holy Spirit. But as Jesus said when speaking to the disciples, the Holy Spirit which is with you, will be in you. To me this 'baptism' of the holy spirit is the point at which man is 'saved' and this is the ushering in of the kingdom of God - which is eternal life.
 
mutzrein said:
Many of course, prior to Jesus coming in the flesh, have been moved by the Holy Spirit. But as Jesus said when speaking to the disciples, the Holy Spirit which is with you, will be in you. To me this 'baptism' of the holy spirit is the point at which man is 'saved' and this is the ushering in of the kingdom of God - which is eternal life.
Click to expand...

I agree with this statement knowing that Jesus is the one and only Christ! :thumb
 
Solo said:
mutzrein said:
Many of course, prior to Jesus coming in the flesh, have been moved by the Holy Spirit. But as Jesus said when speaking to the disciples, the Holy Spirit which is with you, will be in you. To me this 'baptism' of the holy spirit is the point at which man is 'saved' and this is the ushering in of the kingdom of God - which is eternal life.
Click to expand...

I agree with this statement knowing that Jesus is the one and only Christ! :thumb
Click to expand...

Yes - he is the Christ of God
 
mutzrein said:
Adullam said:
It sounds like a no-brainer to answer yes, but there is more to the question than meets the eye. Can a person HAVE the HS?

Some who have been filled with the Spirit will not be saved. Balaam is a fine example. Also Jesus said that many will come to Him and say Lord Lord! They did many spiritual works but their characters remained foreign to HIm.

So then "have been'S" can quickly become "has beens!"

Were the Ninevites filled with the Spirit when they repented?

Was the "good" samamritan filled with the HS when he simply helped his fellow man?

What kind of religion are we building here?




People commonly confuse gifting with godly character. You are not saved for your gift.

It is a question of anointing vs Life. Don't ever confuse the two!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure - actually in fact I am sure - that Balaam was not filled with the Holy Spirit.

If I'm not mistaken scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit came 'upon' him which is different to saying it 'filled' him.

Many of course, prior to Jesus coming in the flesh, have been moved by the Holy Spirit. But as Jesus said when speaking to the disciples, the Holy Spirit which is with you, will be in you. To me this 'baptism' of the holy spirit is the point at which man is 'saved' and this is the ushering in of the kingdom of God - which is eternal life.
Click to expand...

You are down a rabbit trail and have ignored the point of my post. The thread is not about the HS being in or out of a person. Did the samaritan have the HS in him (or out) in order to be able to impress Jesus??????
 
Adullam said:
You are down a rabbit trail and have ignored the point of my post. The thread is not about the HS being in or out of a person. Did the samaritan have the HS in him (or out) in order to be able to impress Jesus??????
Click to expand...

Do we have to have the Holy Ghost in order to be saved?

Then what is meant by "to have the Holy Ghost"?
:confused

It would seem asking about "the samaritan" is more of a rabbit trial since the thread is about "we"... us.

:shrug
 
Rick W said:
Adullam said:
You are down a rabbit trail and have ignored the point of my post. The thread is not about the HS being in or out of a person. Did the samaritan have the HS in him (or out) in order to be able to impress Jesus??????
Click to expand...

Do we have to have the Holy Ghost in order to be saved?

Then what is meant by "to have the Holy Ghost"?
:confused

It would seem asking about "the samaritan" is more of a rabbit trial since the thread is about "we"... us.

:shrug
Click to expand...

If we wish to bring Jesus into the mix, then we must affirm what He affirms. The pertinent question should be asked...Why would Jesus use an "unsaved" samaritan to show us what we must do? Is Jesus saying..."thanks samaritan, you can go to hell now!" Or is the Samaritan an example of somebody who obeys the will of God?

Think about that. Then realize that the HS is not sent to save us.....but to guide us into all truth.
 
How can the Spirit guide us if not dwelling within?

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
 
Rick W said:
How can the Spirit guide us if not dwelling within?

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Click to expand...


Exactly!
 
mutzrein said:
Solo said:
mutzrein said:
Many of course, prior to Jesus coming in the flesh, have been moved by the Holy Spirit. But as Jesus said when speaking to the disciples, the Holy Spirit which is with you, will be in you. To me this 'baptism' of the holy spirit is the point at which man is 'saved' and this is the ushering in of the kingdom of God - which is eternal life.
Click to expand...

I agree with this statement knowing that Jesus is the one and only Christ! :thumb
Click to expand...

Yes - he is the Christ of God
Click to expand...
Not only is Christ of God, Christ is God.
 
Solo said:
mutzrein said:
Yes - he is the Christ of God
Click to expand...
Not only is Christ of God, Christ is God.
Click to expand...

There ya go again Solo. Twisting the words. Although I agree that Christ is of God, I said he is THE CHRIST OF GOD. I see a difference. Anyway this thread is not the place to pursue this one me thinks.
 
mutzrein said:
Solo said:
mutzrein said:
Yes - he is the Christ of God
Click to expand...
Not only is Christ of God, Christ is God.
Click to expand...

There ya go again Solo. Twisting the words. Although I agree that Christ is of God, I said he is THE CHRIST OF GOD. I see a difference. Anyway this thread is not the place to pursue this one me thinks.
Click to expand...
All places are appropriate when revealing false teachings. To implicate that Jesus is not God, is a false teaching of the spirit of antichrist.

And for the record, it is you who twists the Word of God to fulfill your false teaching that Jesus is not God.

  • 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
    1 Corinthians 12:5-6

God dwells within every born again believer. Those who do not have God dwelling within them are not born again, and remain condemned.

The Holy Spirit is a person of the one Godhead who dwells within every born again believer.

  • 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 10:10-11

  • 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9

  • But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11

Jesus Christ is a person of the one Godhead who dwells within every born again believer.

  • And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:10

  • 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. Colossians 1:26-29

  • 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
    2 Corinthians 13:5

  • 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20

God the Father is a person of the one Godhead who dwells within every born again believer.

  • 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

  • 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:2-6

  • 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

  • 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:15-16
 
We are discussing the need of the Holy Spirit for salvation, here. No one will deny that a saint cannot be holy without the Spirit! :)
 
Adullam said:
We are discussing the need of the Holy Spirit for salvation, here. No one will deny that a saint cannot be holy without the Spirit! :)
Click to expand...
We also cannot be transformed into the image of Christ, without the Holy Spirit

2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit in us, does this transformation in us.
 
To whom much is given, much is required! But what of those to whom little has been given??
 
Cornelius said:
That verse has the "Spirit of God" and then also the "Spirit of Christ" . Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit of Christ is what is in you, your new Man. The Holy Spirit helps you to manifest the Spirit of Christ in and through you.
Click to expand...

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one bodyâ€â€Jews or Greeks, slaves or freeâ€â€and all were made to drink of one Spirit. RSV

There is only one Spirit. The Father and the Son share that one Spirit. The "Spirit of God" and the "Spirit of Christ" are identical. The Father resides in Heaven in a special way, with the Son at His right hand. But they extend their divine Personalities everywhere in the Universe, especially in the hearts of the faithful. Their extended Personalities (or should I say "Personality"? The Father and the Son are in complete unity) IS the Holy Spirit.

Responding, Jesus said to him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him. John 14:23 A Personal Translation

Jesus and the Father dwell within Christ's disciples. Their presence IS the Holy Spirit. Why suppose a THIRD divine Individual?

2 Corinthians 3:1 states that the Lord IS the Spirit.
 
Paidion said:
Cornelius said:
That verse has the "Spirit of God" and then also the "Spirit of Christ" . Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit of Christ is what is in you, your new Man. The Holy Spirit helps you to manifest the Spirit of Christ in and through you.
Click to expand...

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one bodyâ€â€Jews or Greeks, slaves or freeâ€â€and all were made to drink of one Spirit. RSV

There is only one Spirit. The Father and the Son share that one Spirit. The "Spirit of God" and the "Spirit of Christ" are identical. The Father resides in Heaven in a special way, with the Son at His right hand. But they extend their divine Personalities everywhere in the Universe, especially in the hearts of the faithful. Their extended Personalities (or should I say "Personality"? The Father and the Son are in complete unity) IS the Holy Spirit.

Responding, Jesus said to him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him. John 14:23 A Personal Translation

Jesus and the Father dwell within Christ's disciples. Their presence IS the Holy Spirit. Why suppose a THIRD divine Individual?

2 Corinthians 3:1 states that the Lord IS the Spirit.
Click to expand...

I disagree that the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ.

I do not want to go into that now, but if you look in the Old Testament , the Spirit of God was upon them and the Spirit of Christ was in them .1Pe 1:11 searching what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow them.

Look and you will see that I am right in this.

So even though somebody might be baptized in the Holy Spirit, it is no guarantee that they will manifest the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of God, helps us to manifest the Spirit of Christ.

We have to think this thru to understand it. Its similar me saying :That person did not come in the spirit of love" The spirit of Christ is the same. Its the way we behave, its not a "being" it the spirit in which we live and walk.
 
It must be said that the Spirit of Christ was only made available through the death and resurrection of Christ. It is the nature and character of Jesus imparted to us by grace. Yet it is also the mold that we ourselves are fashioned into. The Spirit of Christ is imparted to us to form Christian character.

The Spirit of Christ is for our training. (Personal)

The Holy Spirit gifts are given to us for others. (Corporate)

<><

John
 
Adullam said:
It must be said that the Spirit of Christ was only made available through the death and resurrection of Christ. It is the nature and character of Jesus imparted to us by grace. Yet it is also the mold that we ourselves are fashioned into. The Spirit of Christ is imparted to us to form Christian character.

The Spirit of Christ is for our training. (Personal)

The Holy Spirit gifts are given to us for others. (Corporate)

<><

John
Click to expand...

Thanks, this is much clearer than the way I put it. Its not easy a concept to understand for most, because of the confusion between the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ.

But its something that we must understand.

C
 
The Spirit of Christ is divinity in the shape of Christ that is fashioned to fit us inwardly. God then molds us into that. :-)
 
Adullam said:
The Spirit of Christ is divinity in the shape of Christ that is fashioned to fit us inwardly. God then molds us into that. :-)
Click to expand...

So if Christ is the mold, what comes out of the mold ?

:)
 
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