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Do you think the church should be culture neutral?

Jethro Bodine

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The move in the church in recent years seems to be to adopt a culture of youth for the obvious reason of attracting the youth to attend church. Should we be doing that, or should the church be culturally neutral?
 
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I think the Church can take on different forms without compromise of the Gospel or teaching of Christ. I do not, however, personally think we should try to 'attract' people - anymore than I think we should try to be 'unattractive'. So in that sense, we should be neutral.

I think we are called to be focused on Christ, not whats around us - and especially not us. When we focus on those things around us, we compromise to attract. When we focus on ourselves, we become held up in our own little world and are very unattractive. When we focus on Christ, then when He calls someone, we will know it and be able to help them.

Paul was able to 'become' like those to who He was called to preach to, without sacrificing truth. He did this by keeping his eyes on Christ and being devoted to Him - not tradition and not worldliness.
 
Depending on the church, there's already a good amount of culture in it. To change could be hard on the current members that found comfort in that church's culture and way of doing things. Two churches in my city have a wildly different culture to them. One feels like a black gospel church, with the preacher and the choir and instruments sometimes intermingling when the preacher gets enthusiastic. The other holds to a traditional kind of way with the service orginized.

To change either would have to be a decision from the church and the preacher themselves. Because for those going to the churches, they are a stable and reliable aspect in the people's lives.
 
I think the Church can take on different forms without compromise of the Gospel or teaching of Christ. I do not, however, personally think we should try to 'attract' people - anymore than I think we should try to be 'unattractive'. So in that sense, we should be neutral.

I think we are called to be focused on Christ, not whats around us - and especially not us. When we focus on those things around us, we compromise to attract. When we focus on ourselves, we become held up in our own little world and are very unattractive. When we focus on Christ, then when He calls someone, we will know it and be able to help them.

Paul was able to 'become' like those to who He was called to preach to, without sacrificing truth. He did this by keeping his eyes on Christ and being devoted to Him - not tradition and not worldliness.
For the most part I agree but then I hear these words echoing in my mind...
"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you." 1 Corinthians 9:19-23
 
For the most part I agree but then I hear these words echoing in my mind...
"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you." 1 Corinthians 9:19-23

Most definitely, that was the passage I was thinking about also. Paul took on different 'forms', but never strayed from the truth. He did not do this to attract people, but rather to be able to reach them - understand their thoughts and get on their level to teach.

I think the best example we see of this is when he was in Athens. (Acts 17)

He saw all the idols around him and was moved to reach them. Here is where we see how he did this without compromise in either direction. He could have went around throwing down the idols, telling them they were all stupid and going to hell. He could have beat his Scripture scroll in his hand and taught that they were wretched idolaters - this would have been true in a way.

He could have also went the other direction - telling them its ok to keep all these around, but there is a better one they are leaving out. He could have told them it was fine to worship the others, but they should consider another one in case they really need help because He is actually real - again, true in a way.

Instead, he meets them on their level, using the altar to the 'unknown' god as a intro. He does not bash them over the head for believing what they do, and he doesn't tell them that what they do believe is ok - he tells them the pure truth - that there is a God - He is not, and cannot be made with human hands - and He wants them to come to Him. Simple.

Many fellowships today are either closed off to the world, or they are so 'attractive' they bring in the worlds idols to attract people. They are focused on themselves, not Christ. Somewhere along the way the faith has been twisted to believe that God does not actually work, Himself, in the individual life of the unbeliever - drawing them to Himself. He uses us for that task, but that does not mean He does not personally draw them.

When we try to 'attract' people we are subverting the power of God in bringing people in. The Christian faith, the Gospel, was never meant to be attractive. It was, and still is, very much offensive.
 
I agree with post no. 6.

Except that youth is totally turned off to church.
So I've changed my mind and feel that something should be done....But something that includes the word of God and does not include rock music.

Maybe sermons geared to youth, motivational speakers, special Bible studies.
 
I agree with post no. 6.

Except that youth is totally turned off to church.
So I've changed my mind and feel that something should be done....But something that includes the word of God and does not include rock music.

Maybe sermons geared to youth, motivational speakers, special Bible studies.

I agree that youth should be reached out to. I see nothing wrong with things you mention.

The difference between that, and what I see 'attraction' as, would be like bringing in 'things' that are not according to truth. For instance, one of the things I don't understand is having video games that promote sin, or movies that do it, or even music that does it.

We can't 'lure' or 'attract' them in with these things that look appealing to the world's youth, and then turn around and teach them its not ok - but only if your trying to reach other people - then its ok.......huh?
 
I think the Church can take on different forms without compromise of the Gospel or teaching of Christ. I do not, however, personally think we should try to 'attract' people - anymore than I think we should try to be 'unattractive'. So in that sense, we should be neutral.

I think we are called to be focused on Christ, not whats around us - and especially not us. When we focus on those things around us, we compromise to attract. When we focus on ourselves, we become held up in our own little world and are very unattractive. When we focus on Christ, then when He calls someone, we will know it and be able to help them.

Paul was able to 'become' like those to who He was called to preach to, without sacrificing truth. He did this by keeping his eyes on Christ and being devoted to Him - not tradition and not worldliness.

I do believe that you're right, Brother. At first I was like, hey yes, try to attract youth (or whoever) into church. That sounds like a no brainer, like, of course we should...But I never really thought about it, the way you say. It is true that to do that, one has to come up with a program of sorts. But the minute that we go to program, we take our focus off of Christ. Who makes up the program? A man? A good man? (lol), the Pastor?

I dunno, did the Holy Spirit give unction to the Pastor to develop a youth program? If so, then I say go for it for along with that instruction, some revelation will come with it also on how to do it. If not, then might not be a good idea to do it.

How do you make a church without programs though? That's man's natural mind kicking in wanting to make a plan. I'd bet a dollah that most every crooked & inefficient program started out as a good idea intended to help people. But there has to be decision makers, and power corrupts over time. So in order for it to work it would have to be Spirit led. So they (prolly) can't do it.

So what the church can do, is to anticipate the needs of the youth, and be ready to help them when they walk in on their own accord. The (worlds) youth's problem areas (and entertainment likes) are those that are common to youth (we've all been there). So it wouldn't be a big feat to be ready to help in those areas, but it's not something that the church should advertise. If anything were to grow out of that, well...glory to God! :)

What would happen if we went to church next Sunday, and the entire congregation did no praise or teaching, but all turned their hearts and focus upon Jesus, and prayerfully wait on Him...until. He shows up or the Service ends...LOL :lol

Please be seated. Let us all turn our hearts and focus upon the Lord now and just pray, Thank you Jesus, please come now, and preach to us! A real Spirit led church!
 
I agree that youth should be reached out to. I see nothing wrong with things you mention.

The difference between that, and what I see 'attraction' as, would be like bringing in 'things' that are not according to truth. For instance, one of the things I don't understand is having video games that promote sin, or movies that do it, or even music that does it.

We can't 'lure' or 'attract' them in with these things that look appealing to the world's youth, and then turn around and teach them its not ok - but only if your trying to reach other people - then its ok.......huh?
Agreed. 100%.
 
How does on draw in people when it's really God doing it?the word of God may be presented but ultimately many will reject it as it says few will find the path.
 
How does on draw in people when it's really God doing it?the word of God may be presented but ultimately many will reject it as it says few will find the path.
If they don't hear it, they can't accept it or reject it.
 
If they don't hear it, they can't accept it or reject it.
Yes but again the method often reaching is really so countercultural that we assume more numbers means more saved when it might not be
 
the culture as a whole is moving further and further away from the old judeo-christian concepts. its been going on for a while. contraception, abortion, no-fault divorce, sexual revolution, self-help, new age, gay rights, gay marriage, on and on it goes....

i think ((personal opinion)) that maybe we're a point where the best approach will be to simply speak the truth in love and also start cleaning house so the church gets closer to and stays closer to The Good News. I'm not one for fire and brimstone, 24/7, but I'm also not one for psychology with bible verses on top, either.

also...fun fact: in america, it wasn't until the 2nd great awakening that protestants as a whole began to downplay the work of the holy ghost in conversion and emphasize human efforts. I'm all about sharing The Good News, but sometimes I think we forget about the supernatural factors that go into genuine conversion.
 
dirtfarmer here

Where in scripture do we find that we are to invite unbelievers to join in worship with the believers? "Church" is not a place for people to come to know Christ; that is in the highways and byways. "Church", assembling together of believers is for the edifying of the body and strengthening the weak and feeble believers. Our "church system" is failing because believers live like the devil 6 days a week and pray for crop failures on Sundays from the activities of Saturday.

There is no sanctification exhibited by believers during the work week. It is hard to go into any office or place of employment from Monday thru Friday and see a difference between unbeliever and believers. Saturdays and Sundays are for partying, expressing our carnal nature, and never a thought about our savior.

We are to win the lost in the highways and byways and then help them to become mature believers so they can repeat the process of "win the lost"
 
I'm all about sharing The Good News, but sometimes I think we forget about the supernatural factors that go into genuine conversion.
Here we are entering into the times as in Noah's day when the whole world was corrupt, but the church isn't ready to accept the fact that fewer and fewer people are going to be saved as this time progresses. The church seems bent on forcing people into the church during a time when the opposite is going to be happening.

It's hard, but we have to accept that the gospel message is going to be received less and less in these last days. We can't change that.
 
I agree with post no. 6.

Except that youth is totally turned off to church.
So I've changed my mind and feel that something should be done....But something that includes the word of God and does not include rock music.

Maybe sermons geared to youth, motivational speakers, special Bible studies.
You sound as smart as Fran, a friend of mine.
 
dirtfarmer here

Where in scripture do we find that we are to invite unbelievers to join in worship with the believers? "Church" is not a place for people to come to know Christ; that is in the highways and byways. "Church", assembling together of believers is for the edifying of the body and strengthening the weak and feeble believers. Our "church system" is failing because believers live like the devil 6 days a week and pray for crop failures on Sundays from the activities of Saturday.

There is no sanctification exhibited by believers during the work week. It is hard to go into any office or place of employment from Monday thru Friday and see a difference between unbeliever and believers. Saturdays and Sundays are for partying, expressing our carnal nature, and never a thought about our savior.

We are to win the lost in the highways and byways and then help them to become mature believers so they can repeat the process of "win the lost"
Hi Dirtfarmer,

This is a very interesting idea and one I've not heard before.

First of all, I'd like to say that if I could just get someone to come to a church service, I'd be happy. I believe that when a person sets foot in a church it means that they are truly seeking and there's a good chance they will find.

As to your work week and not being able to discern between believers and non-believers, I would also agree. In fact, I like something St. Francis said back in the 1,200's:

Witness always and only when necessary, use words.

Or something to that effect. IOW, our witness or our testimony is to be our life. If you couple that with speaking about God, people will connect the two and the witnessing (even without words) will be effective.

I had a short debate with someone here some time ago. He was saying that if someone is in a service with us, then they are sharing in the life of the Holy Spirit. I disagreed, and still disagree. You SHARE only if you are a born again believer since the Holy Spirit would be living in you. The one visiting, shares in the service to some extent but does NOT share in the worship part of it.

However, if one is to hear the word of God properly presented, I believe they should go to a church and go through the experience. Sometimes that's what it takes to accept God into ones life. I know of a few persons who were saved in a church. My brother included.

So, I'd say that they could share in everything, except the worship part. They could not worship a God they do not know.

I'd say that persons need to be brought into church, not kept out until they believe.
 
the culture as a whole is moving further and further away from the old judeo-christian concepts. its been going on for a while. contraception, abortion, no-fault divorce, sexual revolution, self-help, new age, gay rights, gay marriage, on and on it goes....

i think ((personal opinion)) that maybe we're a point where the best approach will be to simply speak the truth in love and also start cleaning house so the church gets closer to and stays closer to The Good News. I'm not one for fire and brimstone, 24/7, but I'm also not one for psychology with bible verses on top, either.

also...fun fact: in america, it wasn't until the 2nd great awakening that protestants as a whole began to downplay the work of the holy ghost in conversion and emphasize human efforts. I'm all about sharing The Good News, but sometimes I think we forget about the supernatural factors that go into genuine conversion.
:thumbsup
 
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