Doctrinal Unity In Calvinism...George Ophoff

[Iconoclast]

True oneness is not to be achieved through believing people ignoring doctrinal differences.

Doctrinal differences arise as result of someone thinking and believing wrongly.

Hence, real unity is achieved only when those who err are made to see the light and come to the light.

In other words, God’s people are one only to the extent that they all consciously abide in Christ.

The divisions in the church are not representative of an ideal state.

Christ’s will is that His people be one.

And it is the solemn duty of every believer to work for unity not through his renouncing what he holds to be the truth but through His making sure whether what he holds to be truth is truth,

and secondly through his assailing false beliefs and doctrines in order that those ensnared by the lie may be won for the truth.

The truth is a source of comfort to God’s people only to that extent that it is unmixed with error.

Reformed Calvinistic Confessions are formed by the truth of scripture

 

[SolaScriptura]

Reformed Calvinistic Confessions are formed by the truth of scripture

Even when it says in the WCF

“Our first parents were led astray by the cunning temptation of Satan and sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. It pleased God to allow them to sin, because in his wisdom and holiness he planned to order their sin to his own glory” (On the Fall of Man)

This is AGAINST the Bible's Teaching on the Character of God, and makes God to be the author of sin.

 

[electedbyhim]

Even when it says in the WCF

“Our first parents were led astray by the cunning temptation of Satan and sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. It pleased God to allow them to sin, because in his wisdom and holiness he planned to order their sin to his own glory” (On the Fall of Man)

This is AGAINST the Bible's Teaching on the Character of God, and makes God to be the author of sin.

John Gill:

8. Of the Sin and Fall of our First Parents.

2a2b. God predetermined the fall of Adam; this fell under his decree, as all things do that come to pass in the world; there is nothing comes to pass without his determining will, "Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?" (Lam. 3:37), nothing is done, or can be done, God not willing it should be done: that the fall of Adam was by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God is certain; because the sufferings and death of Christ, by which is the redemption of men from that sin, and all others, were ordained before the foundation of the world; and which must have been precarious and uncertain, if Adam’s fall was not by a like decree (Acts 2:23; 4:28; 1 Pet. 1:20), but then neither the foreknowledge of God, nor any decree of God, laid Adam under a necessity of sinning; it is true, there arises from hence a necessity of immutability, that is, that the things God has decreed should unchangeably come to pass, but not a necessity of co-action or force; as Judas and the Jews sinned freely, the one in betraying, the other in putting Christ to death; so Adam sinned freely, without force or compulsion, notwithstanding any decree of God concerning him; so that these do not make God at all chargeable with being the author of his sin; he and he alone was the author of it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Even when it says in the WCF

“Our first parents were led astray by the cunning temptation of Satan and sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. It pleased God to allow them to sin, because in his wisdom and holiness he planned to order their sin to his own glory” (On the Fall of Man)

This is AGAINST the Bible's Teaching on the Character of God, and makes God to be the author of sin.

You do not understand the quote. The confession of faith states directly that God is never the author of sin.
notice it says "to allow THEM to sin". It does not say, force them to sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

True oneness is not to be achieved through believing people ignoring doctrinal differences.

Doctrinal differences arise as result of someone thinking and believing wrongly.

Hence, real unity is achieved only when those who err are made to see the light and come to the light.

In other words, God’s people are one only to the extent that they all consciously abide in Christ.

The divisions in the church are not representative of an ideal state.

Christ’s will is that His people be one.

And it is the solemn duty of every believer to work for unity not through his renouncing what he holds to be the truth but through His making sure whether what he holds to be truth is truth,

and secondly through his assailing false beliefs and doctrines in order that those ensnared by the lie may be won for the truth.

The truth is a source of comfort to God’s people only to that extent that it is unmixed with error.

Reformed Calvinistic Confessions are formed by the truth of scripture

The Reformed Confessions have stood for hundreds of years against those who attempt to blame God for mans sin. No one on this board has even come close to understanding them well enough to offer a correction on any of them

 

[SolaScriptura]

You do not understand the quote. The confession of faith states directly that God is never the author of sin.
notice it says "to allow THEM to sin". It does not say, force them to sin.

What does that God "planned to order their sin to his own glory" mean? This makes God the AUTHOR of sin!

God PLANNED their sinning

This is BLASPHEMY

 

[Iconoclast]

What does that God "planned to order their sin to his own glory" mean? This makes God the AUTHOR of sin!

God PLANNED their sinning

This is BLASPHEMY

God does not ever work as the author of sin. God does not causes sin. He uses even the sin of ungodly people for His godly purpose. For you to suggest God makes them sin is profane.

 

[SolaScriptura]

God does not ever work as the author of sin. God does not causes sin. He uses even the sin of ungodly people for His godly purpose. For you to suggest God makes them sin is profane.

Read what the WCF actually says as I have quoted, it is clear from this that according to the WFC, God PLANNED to ORDER their sin to His Glory!

PLAN="decide on and make arrangements for in advance"

ORDER="an authoritative command or instruction"

This means according to the WCF, that God ARRANGED for the sins of the human race in advance!

This is BLASPHEMY!

 

[SolaScriptura]

John Gill:

8. Of the Sin and Fall of our First Parents.

2a2b. God predetermined the fall of Adam; this fell under his decree, as all things do that come to pass in the world; there is nothing comes to pass without his determining will, "Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?" (Lam. 3:37), nothing is done, or can be done, God not willing it should be done: that the fall of Adam was by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God is certain; because the sufferings and death of Christ, by which is the redemption of men from that sin, and all others, were ordained before the foundation of the world; and which must have been precarious and uncertain, if Adam’s fall was not by a like decree (Acts 2:23; 4:28; 1 Pet. 1:20), but then neither the foreknowledge of God, nor any decree of God, laid Adam under a necessity of sinning; it is true, there arises from hence a necessity of immutability, that is, that the things God has decreed should unchangeably come to pass, but not a necessity of co-action or force; as Judas and the Jews sinned freely, the one in betraying, the other in putting Christ to death; so Adam sinned freely, without force or compulsion, notwithstanding any decree of God concerning him; so that these do not make God at all chargeable with being the author of his sin; he and he alone was the author of it.

This is UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH!

God CANNOT have "predetermined" the fall, this is IMPOSSIBLE!

The word means, "predetermine something to decide something in advance so that it does not happen by chance"

What Gill and other "Reformers" say, is that God DECIDED that Adam and Eve should disobey Him and sin, and when they did what God had DECIDED for them to do in advance, He punishes them! This is to make God not only the author of sin, but shows God to be not right mined! He PREDETERMINES the fall of all humans, which causes sin, and then is grieved in His heart that humans do the very things that He Himself DECIDED that we do!!!

What UTTER RUBBISH! WHY do you guys keep on following these BLASPHEMIES?

 

[brightfame52]

John Gill:

8. Of the Sin and Fall of our First Parents.

2a2b. God predetermined the fall of Adam; this fell under his decree, as all things do that come to pass in the world; there is nothing comes to pass without his determining will, "Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?" (Lam. 3:37), nothing is done, or can be done, God not willing it should be done: that the fall of Adam was by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God is certain; because the sufferings and death of Christ, by which is the redemption of men from that sin, and all others, were ordained before the foundation of the world; and which must have been precarious and uncertain, if Adam’s fall was not by a like decree (Acts 2:23; 4:28; 1 Pet. 1:20), but then neither the foreknowledge of God, nor any decree of God, laid Adam under a necessity of sinning; it is true, there arises from hence a necessity of immutability, that is, that the things God has decreed should unchangeably come to pass, but not a necessity of co-action or force; as Judas and the Jews sinned freely, the one in betraying, the other in putting Christ to death; so Adam sinned freely, without force or compulsion, notwithstanding any decree of God concerning him; so that these do not make God at all chargeable with being the author of his sin; he and he alone was the author of it.

Yet God decreed that Adam sinned willingly !

 

[brightfame52]

This is UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH!

God CANNOT have "predetermined" the fall, this is IMPOSSIBLE!

The word means, "predetermine something to decide something in advance so that it does not happen by chance"

What Gill and other "Reformers" say, is that God DECIDED that Adam and Eve should disobey Him and sin, and when they did what God had DECIDED for them to do in advance, He punishes them! This is to make God not only the author of sin, but shows God to be not right mined! He PREDETERMINES the fall of all humans, which causes sin, and then is grieved in His heart that humans do the very things that He Himself DECIDED that we do!!!

What UTTER RUBBISH! WHY do you guys keep on following these BLASPHEMIES?

This is Blasphemy !

 

[brightfame52]

Even when it says in the WCF

“Our first parents were led astray by the cunning temptation of Satan and sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. It pleased God to allow them to sin, because in his wisdom and holiness he planned to order their sin to his own glory” (On the Fall of Man)

This is AGAINST the Bible's Teaching on the Character of God, and makes God to be the author of sin.

Gods Eternal Purpose in Christ is the author of sin, He authored it to come into the world for His Eternal Purpose in Christ. And for you to say thats an indictment on Gods character for Him to do that, is Blasphemy, who are we but clay in the Hands of the Sovereign Potter, may God grant you repentance.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Yet God decreed that Adam sinned willingly !

BLASPHEMY!

 

[SolaScriptura]

Gods Eternal Purpose in Christ is the author of sin, He authored it to come into the world for His Eternal Purpose in Christ. And for you to say thats an indictment on Gods character for Him to do that, is Blasphemy, who are we but clay in the Hands of the Sovereign Potter, may God grant you repentance.

Your beliefs on this is not from the Bible but the devil!

 

[Iconoclast]

Read what the WCF actually says as I have quoted, it is clear from this that according to the WFC, God PLANNED to ORDER their sin to His Glory!

PLAN="decide on and make arrangements for in advance"

ORDER="an authoritative command or instruction"

This means according to the WCF, that God ARRANGED for the sins of the human race in advance!

This is BLASPHEMY!

That you cannot grasp the truth is not God's fault , it is yours. Do you look for reasons to blame God for mans sin?
Or would you like to understand what the bible explains.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your beliefs on this is not from the Bible but the devil!

What is false here, is your idea that things go on outside God's control.

 

[jasonc]

Im not reformed ,God accounting for and allowing evil isn't in anyway saying He made it or wants it .knows it will happen .if He changed every ones will to him there would be no real choice to love Him .

 

[SolaScriptura]

What is false here, is your idea that things go on outside God's control.

What you guys don't understand is that just because God KNOWS something doesn't mean that He CAUSES it!

 

[electedbyhim]

This is UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH!

God CANNOT have "predetermined" the fall, this is IMPOSSIBLE!

The word means, "predetermine something to decide something in advance so that it does not happen by chance"

What Gill and other "Reformers" say, is that God DECIDED that Adam and Eve should disobey Him and sin, and when they did what God had DECIDED for them to do in advance, He punishes them! This is to make God not only the author of sin, but shows God to be not right mined! He PREDETERMINES the fall of all humans, which causes sin, and then is grieved in His heart that humans do the very things that He Himself DECIDED that we do!!!

What UTTER RUBBISH! WHY do you guys keep on following these BLASPHEMIES?

God predetermined/ordained Christs death, why is it rubbish, that He preordained the fall?

 

[SolaScriptura]

God predetermined/ordained Christs death, why is it rubbish, that He preordained the fall?

Do you guys ever think about what you are saying, or just spout some utter nonsense?

If God preordained the fall then God made Adam and Eve disobey and sin against Him!

How then can God blame them for disobedience when they were simply carrying out His Purposes?

Further, why should God be grieved by man's sin in Genesis chapter 6 and destroy the world by the flood, because humans were only doing what God preordained them to do?

This makes a mockery of God and His Holiness and Infallible Word.

It is what Paul calls "teaching of demons"