Does a Loving God Chasteneth and Scourgeth Us?

[RND]

Now you know the two words chasteneth and scourgeth...do NOT convey the same thoughts. But, believe whatever you wish. :D

That's why I said, "The thoughts that the words convey most certainly are the same."

 

[Joe67]

Heb 12:11

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous:

nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. KJV

When we are disciplined by our Lord Jesus through the Spirit of promise, then we have experience in the fellowship of Jesus' sufferings, as he fills up in us that which is behind of his afflictions for his Body.

Thereby we are partakers of his holiness, his divine nature that suffers for the unjust.

Then we can strengthen the brethren, ministering the grace of God to those who are lame.

Joe

 

[RND]

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

[whirlwind]

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Do you see the "tender mercy" of the Lord as flogging?

 

[RND]

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Do you see the "tender mercy" of the Lord as flogging?

Sorry whirlwind but I'm not interested in beating that dead horse you want to ride. As I previously mentioned Paul was quoting from the book of Proverbs:

Pro 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.

As I said previously as well I personally think that when we seek the meaning of the Hebrew that Paul's usage of the Greek was attempting to convey we come to a greater understanding of the thoughts being conveyed. In other words, we can better understand what Paul was conveying by referencing the Hebrew and not just the Greek.

You don't want to view things that way whirlwind so I'll leave you to whatever you want to think.

 

[whirlwind]

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Do you see the "tender mercy" of the Lord as flogging?

Sorry whirlwind but I'm not interested in beating that dead horse you want to ride. As I previously mentioned Paul was quoting from the book of Proverbs:

Pro 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son [in whom] he delighteth.

As I said previously as well I personally think that when we seek the meaning of the Hebrew that Paul's usage of the Greek was attempting to convey we come to a greater understanding of the thoughts being conveyed. In other words, we can better understand what Paul was conveying by referencing the Hebrew and not just the Greek.

You don't want to view things that way whirlwind so I'll leave you to whatever you want to think.

You are saying that for God to love us we must be FLOGGED, which is the meaning of SCOURGING, which you say means the same thing as chastening. You're quite wrong of course...won't admit it...and in the process may be misleading those just beginning their walk with a LOVING Father.

He does delight in us...He does chasten us...He does not scourge us. And we can read that in any language we wish and it will still mean...He does not scourge us.

 

[RND]

You are saying that for God to love us we must be FLOGGED, which is the meaning of SCOURGING, which you say means the same thing as chastening. You're quite wrong of course...won't admit it...and in the process may be misleading those just beginning their walk with a LOVING Father.

whirlwind, we must be willing to accept the meaning of the Hebrew words that Paul was leading us to remember. You don't want to accept that. No biggie.

He does delight in us...He does chasten us...He does not scourge us. And we can read that in any language we wish and it will still mean...He does not scourge us.

You might want to call your remembrance to all the corrections the COI went through - much included "scourging."

Hbr 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Jer 30:14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; [because] thy sins were increased.

 

[whirlwind]

You are saying that for God to love us we must be FLOGGED, which is the meaning of SCOURGING, which you say means the same thing as chastening. You're quite wrong of course...won't admit it...and in the process may be misleading those just beginning their walk with a LOVING Father.

whirlwind, we must be willing to accept the meaning of the Hebrew words that Paul was leading us to remember. You don't want to accept that. No biggie.

YOU must be willing to understand what our Father is saying. And, it is a biggie.

• Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
  
  Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.

Will some of us face scourging? Yes, as others have but is it our Father doing the scourging?

• Hebrews 11:36-37And others had trial of cruel mockings and SCOURGINGS, yea, moreoever of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted tormented;

[quote:25zhbc06]He does delight in us...He does chasten us...He does not scourge us. And we can read that in any language we wish and it will still mean...He does not scourge us.

You might want to call your remembrance to all the corrections the COI went through - much included "scourging."

Hbr 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye sweethearts, and not sons.

Jer 30:14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; [because] thy sins were increased.[/quote:25zhbc06]


Scourging IS NOT MENTIONED in the verses you quoted. Why?

 

[Elijah674]

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Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.

Our part in running the race set before us is to withstand the temptation, the deception, of Satan.

I read the following few verses and they appear to say that if He loves us then He will scourge us. If we don't receive great chastisment and pain in life then we aren't loved by Him. But, that IS NOT what is meant.

• Hebrews 12:4-6 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, "My son, despise not thou the chastening of the LORD, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him; For whom the LORD loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth."
  
  12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye sweethearts, and not sons.

What this means is that we, as witnesses, as sons of God....will face the great tribulation of Satan. All will be partakers! No one is flown away, and those that don't endure it..."then are ye sweethearts, and not sons." The scourging and chastening is to endure Satan's hour of temptation. That is the "overflowing scourge" we must not hide from.....

• Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
  
  28:28 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
  
  Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

The overflowing scourge is a flood of lies from the mouth of the serpent....lies that are a "covenant with death and hell," and Satan IS Death and Hell.

Our Father does NOT cause pain in our flesh lives in order to accept us as His. We are expected to go through the great tribulation of Satan and....withstand, not fall into apostasy!

Hi, Elijah here. That is not all that these verses mean. Hell will be well filled up with ministers that will not be Rom. 8:14 'LED' of the Holy Ghost to do the hard work of cleaning up the Rev. 17:5 many false doctrines! It is called the 'sin of omission'. See your verse 8 ibid. It would be a real chastisement for these cop/outs!

 

[Joe67]

Wonderful counsel from Jesus who of God is made unto us wisdom, and from the apostle(s) Jesus sent forth in his name.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. KJV

1 Cor 5:3-5
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. KJV

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:... KJV

Joe

 

[Elijah674]

Matt. 18 of Christ documentation!
[14] Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

--Elijah

 

[whirlwind]

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.

• [list:a0wv46zk]Beaten #1194 to flay, scourge, to thrash.

There is the answer to being scourged by a loving God. Our Father chasteneth us all to bring us to Him but, if we are among His chosen witnesses, those that will be delivered in the end of days for a testimony....they/we are the sons of God that will be scourged. Is it our Father scourging?

NO![/list:u:a0wv46zk]

 

[Elijah674]

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.

• [list:hpuye4jt]Beaten #1194 to flay, scourge, to thrash.

There is the answer to being scourged by a loving God. Our Father chasteneth us all to bring us to Him but, if we are among His chosen witnesses, those that will be delivered in the end of days for a testimony....they/we are the sons of God that will be scourged. Is it our Father scourging?

NO![/list:u:hpuye4jt]

Elijah here:
Very Good, that is what I was wanting to have posted up! Note the verse tell's of A SON? (Minister for one) How can a Son of God stop the chastisement of doing something that God requires which he finds against his nature??? (Sin of Omission per/say)

 

[wrightgross]

I love Jesus. And I have to say, yes, He does scourge us if necessary. God loves us even if we are in the pits of hell, but he is just toward us. A child likewise gets adequate punishment according to his actions. A blatant cursing out of a parent would receive more than a slap on the hand. Possibly a paddle. The point is that He will do whatever it takes, even allow us to see some of the consequences of our own sins in order to help us see that we are truly facing a decision of either Heaven or Hell. What a gracious God! To receive chastening and scourging we have to be willing to admit that we are not wiser than He is, and He knows better for us than we do for ourselves. Don't try to put God in a box =). He can whip you, He has the power to prove it. And love you through it all.

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. -Hebrews 12:6

Another verse that shows God's way concerning this is in Matthew 18 concerning forgiveness.

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. -Matthew 18:34-35

If we disobey Him, yes, He will scourge us. I have four children whom I love dearly but will pop them on the butt if they run out into the street to protect them from doing it again. It's love. Love sees our future and helps us to fulfill our purposes, helps us to live. Therefore, a loving God chastens and scourges His children if that is what it must to make us into the perfect beings He created us to be. Love you all! And God loves you =):nod