Does Anyone Else Not Attend Regular Church Services?

[Obadiah]

Free - what you posted does not address a "building" church. It is addressed to the body of believers. There are people assigned by God in the world that will guide the church into understanding. The pastors that you are talking about, but they are not divided into little groups. They are leaders of the church around the world.

When the New Testament letters were written to the churches, it was to that body of believers in that city.

When those of us here are talking about "going to church" I really think we all understand that we are not simply talking about going to a building that is called a "church". We are talking about meeting formally with others who are part of the "body of Christ" for worship and fellowship. (As opposed to an informal meeting to chit chat over coffee and donuts.) I think if you were to look into how the buildings where people meet to worship God got to be called "churches" you would find that they originally were referred to as a place where the church (as in "body of Christ") met for worship and fellowship, then later it got shortened to "church building" (because that's the building where the "Church" meets), and later yet shortened to just "church". This is how a lot of our language developed and I think anyone who's put any thought into it understands that the church building isn't the same as the "Church" (the people).

A major part of meeting together for worship and fellowship with other believers is called "going to church" whether it be a worship service, a Bible study, a fellowship activity, or whatever. This is what we are told we should be doing in all the NT verses that were cited. We are NEVER told to do it all alone when we have the option of fellowshipping with the church!

 

[LovethroughDove]

The church was never to be separated into denominations or be herded into buildings, that is why you see the rebuking of the churches in Rev.2&3

I am going to post scripture and whoever will get it.................will get it.

Revelation 3:8-9 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know you that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Romans 2:29 No, a man is a Jew if he in one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[Obadiah]

The church was never to be separated into denominations or be herded into buildings, that is why you see the rebuking of the churches in Rev.2&3

I am going to post scripture and whoever will get it.................will get it.

Revelation 3:8-9 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know you that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Romans 2:29 No, a man is a Jew if he in one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

I see nothing in these verses commanding the Body of Christ to only meet outdoors. I also see nothing anywhere in the New Testament indicating that the early church only met outdoors. There is nothing unscriptural about gathering in a building.

 

[Free]

Free - what you posted does not address a "building" church. It is addressed to the body of believers. There are people assigned by God in the world that will guide the church into understanding. The pastors that you are talking about, but they are not divided into little groups. They are leaders of the church around the world.

When the New Testament letters were written to the churches, it was to that body of believers in that city.

My main point was to show that Christians are to meet together regularly, as we see in the Bible, which shows your statement that we are to go it alone is incorrect. But, you will also see in the verse I gave in 1 Cor 16:19, that they met in houses (see also Rom. 16:3-5; Col. 4:15; Philemon 2). The number of believers were small and they were not a legal religion, so they met in homes. And homes are buildings.

It only makes sense that the larger the group, and with the recognition of Christianity as a legal religion, that larger buildings for that specific use would make sense. Indeed, since we are told to gather together, how could we do so without meeting in a building, whether it be a house or something larger?

As for pastors, they are the teachers, the overseers--all three words refer to the same office. It only makes sense then that every church would have someone able to teach, otherwise error would be very quick to creep in.

There simply is every reason to believe that the Bible supports Christians gathering together, in buildings, to listen to someone teach the Scriptures.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I never did say "go it alone". We don't go it alone when you know God and you have contact with other believers.

The only reason you would have to go and listen to someone teach scripture, is if you are illiterate. I really feel that people don't understand when Jesus said, "the blind lead the blind".

I do not see scripture that supports how church is done nowadays. Go on Sunday or Saturday for an hour or two or three. Have one person with ALL knowledge tell you what they think about a couple scriptures they want to talk about. I don't see that at all.

This is all I have to speak on the matter and I am thankful God saved me from my eyes being closed.

 

[jasonc]

I never did say "go it alone". We don't go it alone when you know God and you have contact with other believers.

The only reason you would have to go and listen to someone teach scripture, is if you are illiterate. I really feel that people don't understand when Jesus said, "the blind lead the blind".

I do not see scripture that supports how church is done nowadays. Go on Sunday or Saturday for an hour or two or three. Have one person with ALL knowledge tell you what they think about a couple scriptures they want to talk about. I don't see that at all.

This is all I have to speak on the matter and I am thankful God saved me from my eyes being closed.

you mention seperation.everyone here doesn't see nor agree each other here or anywhere in faith matters. Unity not robotic iniformity.cold weather at 40 degrees f or below or snow or rain.I'm not meeting outside in that.I have frozen my feet before.I don't agree with church sof on these things
rapture as they teach it
premillenialism
seven year trib

Yet I do things for the local church.I don't hide my positions nor push them.

 

[handy]

I never did say "go it alone". We don't go it alone when you know God and you have contact with other believers.

The only reason you would have to go and listen to someone teach scripture, is if you are illiterate. I really feel that people don't understand when Jesus said, "the blind lead the blind".

I do not see scripture that supports how church is done nowadays. Go on Sunday or Saturday for an hour or two or three. Have one person with ALL knowledge tell you what they think about a couple scriptures they want to talk about. I don't see that at all.

This is all I have to speak on the matter and I am thankful God saved me from my eyes being closed.

In all fairness, I've never once seen a church that resembled this... A church only connected for an hour or two on one day a week looking toward someone considered to have "ALL knowledge" telling what they think about a couple of scriptures. In my 40 years of Christian faith, pretty much every church I've ever been actively involved in has had various gatherings for the purpose of prayer, study and fellowship throughout the week as well as several people within the congregation, in addition to the pastor, gifted in teaching who would lead these various gatherings. Granted, I haven't been to every denomination, but nonetheless, I don't think what you are describing here is in any way a "norm" of local churches today.

I also disagree that the "only reason you would have to go and listen to someone teach scripture, is if you are illiterate."

To say this seems to contradict Ephesians 4:11 in which we know that it was Christ who gave some as teachers (as well as apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors) for the purpose of perfecting the saints, ministry and equipping the Body. Ephesians 4:11-16
We also know that not all are teachers, not all are pastors... so we need to recognize and respect those that are called to fulfill these Christ established roles. We are all the Body of Christ and there are particular members called to these roles for the purpose of edifying the whole. See also 1 Corinthians 12:27-30

 

[handy]

I don't read Hebrews 10:25 as a command.
However, we are commanded to love others as we love ourselves. Paul says the purpose of the assembling is to edify each other, pray for each other, lift each other up.

From the 1st century until after the Reformation. The gentile believers had to learn what sin and faith were from the Jewish leadership. They didn't have Torah and the Tanakh the way the Jewish believers did. 300 yrs or so later, the gentile church had gotten a lot of things messed up, because they still did not have access to their own Bibles. Since the Reformation and books becoming less expensive, so that all people could at least have one Bible in their homes, there is absolutely no excuse for not knowing what sin is and how to live a Christian life.

To things about assembling with others is that it should make ones walk with the Lord easier and more joyful.
And if one doesn't assemble they may not be using the gifts the Lord has given them to enrich other believers lives and it too brings joy to themselves as well as others.
For me, I would rather not be in any church at all, then be in a bad one.

I agree with so much of what you have to say here. Deborah. I don't see Hebrews 10:25 as a command either, but as an exhortation that we do better when involved in healthy congregational fellowship. As a commercial says of a different organization: "Membership has it's privileges"......
And there are privileges when it comes to being part of a healthy church body. We are encouraged, we learn from each other, we are equipped, we are spurred to love and to good deeds, we are sharpened... There are all kinds of benefits in being joined together and there are hardships when we go it alone.

But, I'm also with you... I would rather not be in any church rather than be in a bad one. Churches in which gossip, back-biting, turning blind eyes to some open sins, yet hypocritically not loving someone because of other sins abound...picking and choosing what to be "offended" by in order to break fellowship with someone who simply doesn't see eye to eye....or simply churches that have decided that certain portions of God's word simply don't apply and therefore is ignored... all of this can shipwreck faith.

I think the most charitable thing in discussing this issue would be to a: realize that there are many flawed, yet fundamentally sound churches out there and if a Christian can be a part of one, then s/he should be...but at the same time realize that not all Christians can be a part of one.

 

[iLOVE]

Why Go To Church?
Creflo Dollar
Did you know Jesus attended church? This is something we do not hear about often, but it is true. If we want to follow and imitate Jesus, then we must follow His example; Jesus made it a custom to attend temple services. Once, when He had wandered away from His parents as a child, He was later found in the temple. When Mary and Joseph finally located Him, His explanation for His disappearance was, "… How is it that you had to look for me? Did you not see and know that it is necessary [as a duty] for Me to be in My Father's house and [occupied] about My Father's business?" (Luke 2:49, AMP) As an adult, if you were looking for Jesus, one place you would definitely find Him was teaching in the synagogue.

In everything God tells us to do, we have a choice whether to obey Him or not. Hebrews 10:25 says, "Not forsaking or neglecting to assemble together [as believers], as is the habit of some people, but admonishing (warning, urging, and encouraging) one another…" (AMP). He has commanded through His Word that we should gather together with other Believers in a corporate setting.

Notice God said some forsake this practice. This simply means they ignore it and turn away from it. Why does God take this so seriously? Because gathering together with other Believers in church allows us to connect with others to receive strength and encouragement. When we come to church, we learn how to apply the Word of God to our lives to overcome the things we go through. We receive the wisdom we need to live victoriously in our everyday lives.

If you are a Christian, you are part of the Body of Christ. Give honor to God by obeying His Word with a willing and obedient heart. Consider the wonderful things God has done for you! Come into His presence in a corporate setting to give Him thanks and to encourage a brother or sister in Christ. You can help change someone's life forever by inspiring them to make Jesus their Lord and Savior. Allow your enthusiasm for the kingdom of God to overflow into the lives of others.

God wants you to desire His presence and have joy when you are in His house of worship. Follow the example of this ardent psalmist, who with a fervent heart toward God proclaimed, "How amiable are thy tabernacles, O Lord of host! My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD: my heart and flesh crieth out for the living God …O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God. Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah" (Psalm 84:1—4).

Just reading that scripture stirs me up inside! You will be amazed at how blessed you will be when you have this much joy about experiencing the presence of Almighty God. To help you get more understanding about the importance of coming to church, be sure you order the message, Faithfulness in Church Attendance, and decide today to be a joyful, zealous, church attendee!

Scripture references:

Luke 2:49 (AMP)

Psalm 27:4

Psalm 84:1-4

Hebrews 10:25

Many Christians find many reasons why they do not attend church and tithe on a regular. Whatever your reason is God has commanded that He must be first (Matthew 22:37-38 NIV). Those that do not make Him first are in danger of having their "lampstand" removed (Rev. 2:5 NIV). I want to make clear that I am not talking about personal salvation. It is possible for God to remove his kingdom from one group.” In fact, I think we see Jesus warning about this very thing happening. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’ Revelation 2:1-7 ESV.

So whatever this thing that rises up against you on Sunday morning to put God in the visitors room please, please find out what this thing is quickly. Repent - remember - and return to your first love - Lord Jesus Christ.

Happy Pentecost Sunday

 

[Free]

I never did say "go it alone".

You first said you never go to church. Then you said that Hebrews 1-:25 "is about people filled with the Spirit who are satisfied with doing it totally alone."

We don't go it alone when you know God and you have contact with other believers.

This isn't about mere contact with other believers. The Bible mandates that we meet regularly with other believers because that is how a body functions properly. There needs to be relationship and love. And there is a vast difference between loving someone just because they are a Christian and loving them because you know them on a deep level (that's often where Christians stop loving others).

The only reason you would have to go and listen to someone teach scripture, is if you are illiterate.

If you can show this with Scripture, you would have a point. But that is not at all what Scripture teaches. I have had to say this many times on this forum: every single person that believes we don't need someone to teach us the Bible--often saying all we need is the Holy Spirit--has disagreed about one or more things with every other person that believes the same. Clearly then, there is much more to it than mere illiteracy. The Bible itself never even implies that that is a reason one should gather with other believers and be taught the Scriptures.

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. (ESV)

If Peter is saying that some of what Paul says is hard to understand, and he understands the language and context, and he was an Apostle, then why should we think we can do better than Peter? How much more now do we need those whom God has gifted with teaching to teach us what the Bible says.

I really feel that people don't understand when Jesus said, "the blind lead the blind".

Indeed. Do you know that Jesus was speaking of the Pharisees, that he called them "blind guides"? Do you know why he did? Can you see how this may or may not apply to Christian churches?

I do not see scripture that supports how church is done nowadays. Go on Sunday or Saturday for an hour or two or three. Have one person with ALL knowledge tell you what they think about a couple scriptures they want to talk about. I don't see that at all.

I gave several passages that showed Christians met together regularly, that they met together in homes, and that God gave some as teachers, to teach the Scriptures for the building up of the Church. You have not given one verse that supports anything you have said. What you are essentially doing, apart from going against the Bible, is setting yourself up above all other Christians. That's a dangerous position to be in.

This is all I have to speak on the matter and I am thankful God saved me from my eyes being closed.

Case in point.

 

[Deborah13]

Happy Pentecost Sunday

Same to you.

 

[Kenny_ms]

I never did say "go it alone". We don't go it alone when you know God and you have contact with other believers.

The only reason you would have to go and listen to someone teach scripture, is if you are illiterate. I really feel that people don't understand when Jesus said, "the blind lead the blind".

I do not see scripture that supports how church is done nowadays. Go on Sunday or Saturday for an hour or two or three. Have one person with ALL knowledge tell you what they think about a couple scriptures they want to talk about. I don't see that at all.

This is all I have to speak on the matter and I am thankful God saved me from my eyes being closed.

LTD, Can't say that I blame you for not speaking anymore on this. For all I know you may have reasons beyond what anyone here knows for not attending church. And though I see no need to get deep in the middle of this since I've already spoken my mind on it but if you read some of the comments here, they mean little or nothing and seemed to me to just be something thrown in as a frail attempt to be right. No comment on who wrote them or what the comments are.

I could be wrong on this, but I just can't see Jesus trying to goad, or even bully someone into meeting in a conventional Church setting. That scene just doesn't feel right....at all.

Do what you think is best for yourself. If you decide you aren't doing this or anything right, pray on it and if you are doing anything terribly out of line, I see no reason why God wouldn't let you know, actually, you would probably already know.

For all I know, you are doing just fine in God's Book just as you are.

 

[Obadiah]

...I do not see scripture that supports how church is done nowadays. Go on Sunday or Saturday for an hour or two or three. Have one person with ALL knowledge tell you what they think about a couple scriptures they want to talk about. I don't see that at all...

I have been an active, church going Christian since before you were even born and I will testify that this viewpoint of yours is VERY narrow minded. You need to learn a lot more about what really goes on in churches before you condemn them so assuredly. Has this been your church experience, or has someone else just told you this is what it's like? You need to get seriously involved in the various ministries of an active church to learn the reality of what most churches really are about instead of just warming a pew for an hour once in a while and then going around condemning the very organization that tries to show you the way to salvation!

 

[jasonc]

I have been an active, church going Christian since before you were even born and I will testify that this viewpoint of yours is VERY narrow minded. You need to learn a lot more about what really goes on in churches before you condemn them so assuredly. Has this been your church experience, or has someone else just told you this is what it's like? You need to get seriously involved in the various ministries of an active church to learn the reality of what most churches really are about instead of just warming a pew for an hour once in a while and then going around condemning the very organization that tries to show you the way to salvation!

my pastor encourages one to bring the bible and to study to see if it SAYS what he says. in other words see what the bible says for yourself. I also see the blanket statement about all churches.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Has this been your church experience, or has someone else just told you this is what it's like?,

What experience are you referring to?

The fact that LTD *may* feel a lot of people might put entirely too much faith in one mans opinion of the Bible like some people definitely do? And why in the world would you think someone would have to tell anyone that can happen? Reasonable intelligence knows that.

That's all I can figure you are talking about but do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Kenny_ms]

my pastor encourages one to bring the bible and to study to see if it SAYS what he says. in other words see what the bible says for yourself.

I know a pastor that "says" that too but when it comes down to it and you so much as act like he may be wrong, you can see something completely different on the other side of his face.

Sorry but there are good reasons for bad attitudes about church here. No not all churches are bad but some I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole and I completely understand where LTD is coming from.

 

[jasonc]

my pastor encourages one to bring the bible and to study to see if it SAYS what he says. in other words see what the bible says for yourself.

I know a pastor that "says" that too but when it comes down to it and you so much as act like he may be wrong, you can see something completely different on the other side of his face.

Sorry but there are good reasons for bad attitudes about church here. No not all churches are bad but some I wouldn't tough with a ten foot pole and I completely understand where LTD is coming from.

no one sees eye to eye. especially on grey areas. eschatology as taught today is for another topic. its hard to be that way most bible readers merely skim it rather then read what It says not what they think it says. we all do that still. its called confirmation bias.

we don't have the thoughts of the apostles on what was thought or taught about end times. only what is said in the bible.it could be that some did disagree, but john outlasted them all.yet within a hundred years Justin martyr said some didn't believe in a millennial reign of jesus on the earth.one can aslo say things about forums. people are people, this forum has divisions and divisive persons on it.why doesn't churches have that problem? yup.

 

[Obadiah]

Has this been your church experience, or has someone else just told you this is what it's like?,

What experience are you referring to?

The fact that LTD *may* feel a lot of people might put entirely too much faith in one mans opinion of the Bible like some people definitely do? And why in the world would you think someone would have to tell anyone that can happen? Reasonable intelligence knows that.

That's all I can figure you are talking about but do correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, you are wrong.

 

[WIP]

I went to our church service today. Almost ended up walking home (about 4-1/2 miles) because my wife and daughter left without me as I was in a Christian discussion with another brother. Fortunately he gave me a ride so I wouldn't have to walk in the rain.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Yes, you are wrong.

No, I'm right, because I don't think it wise to trust the word of man 100% without question.

So, that goes into play right here as unlike yourself, I can't take your comment as truth without question so, I'd have to ask why I'm wrong?

If you had no explanation, I understand and we can leave it at that..