Does anyone see a problem here?

[einstein]

"..But ANYONE who says "you fool",will be in danger of the fire of hell." Matt.5:22

Compare Jesus' warning with the following:

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken." Luke 24:25

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold or the temple that sacrificeth the gold?" Matt.23:17

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift or the alter that sacrificeth the gift?" Matt. 23:19

Looks like Jesus has condemned himself to the netherworld.

 

[handy]

Nope, I don't see a problem.

"..But anyone who says "you fool",will be in DANGER of the fire of hell." Matt.5:22

Jesus is simply warning us of the dangers of the kind of unbridled anger that causes us to lash out at someone. The other instances tell of Jesus pointing out certain truths to actual foolish people, not someone that one is simply mad at, but the truly unwise and impious.

 

[Ret]

"..But ANYONE who says "you fool",will be in danger of the fire of hell." Matt.5:22

Compare Jesus' warning with the following:

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken." Luke 24:25

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold or the temple that sacrificeth the gold?" Matt.23:17

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift or the alter that sacrificeth the gift?" Matt. 23:19

Looks like Jesus has condemned himself to the netherworld.

It cost Jesus His life to reprove us of sin...Yes, Jesus endured hell-fire for our sakes!

 

[handy]

It cost Jesus His life to reprove us of sin...Yes, Jesus endured hell-fire for our sakes!

Amen to that!

 

[JoJo]

I just found this very interesting commentary:

http://jerusalemcouncil.org/articles/co ... matthew-5/

 

[Gabe]

I've read that the word rendered as "fool" in many translations of Matthew 5:22 is not the same word that Jesus Christ used elsewhere in the New Testament referring to a fool or foolish. If this is true then Jesus has not condemned Himself to the netherworld. Can someone check and see if this is correct?

 

[dadof10]

"..But ANYONE who says "you fool",will be in danger of the fire of hell." Matt.5:22

Compare Jesus' warning with the following:

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken." Luke 24:25

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold or the temple that sacrificeth the gold?" Matt.23:17

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift or the alter that sacrificeth the gift?" Matt. 23:19

Looks like Jesus has condemned himself to the netherworld.

This is yet another example of hyperbole. Just like "call NO MAN ON EARTH father" doesn't mean "this word is reserved for God alone" or "ALL have sinned..." doesn't mean "every single person, without exception, has committed actual sin" or "Everyone knows who Tiger Woods is" doesn't mean "EVERYONE knows who Tiger Woods is". Usually when someone uses an all inclusive (or exclusive) term like "everyone" or "no one" or "all", they are using hyperbole. People use it to make their points, which is what Jesus is doing here.

You and I and everyone else use hyperbolic statements every day. This is a common form of communication used throughout the history of mankind in every culture and society, wouldn't you agree?

There is absolutely no reason to think that Jesus is making a literal statement. it is blatantly obvious to anyone without a bias that this is hyperbole. Since this is so common and so easily recognizable, I'm wondering what your agenda is? Is this an attempt to "prove" the Scriptures are non-inspired, or that Jesus is a liar or a fool, Himself?

 

[XTruth]

People must have just and lawful causes to be angry and even then they are to keep their temper under strict control (Eph. 4:26). The fruit of the Spirit is temperance or self-control (Gal. 5:22).

 

[stovebolts]

"..But ANYONE who says "you fool",will be in danger of the fire of hell." Matt.5:22

Compare Jesus' warning with the following:

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken." Luke 24:25

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold or the temple that sacrificeth the gold?" Matt.23:17

"Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift or the alter that sacrificeth the gift?" Matt. 23:19

Looks like Jesus has condemned himself to the netherworld.

This is why word searches on a topic can be so dangerous... When we start reading scripture as data, then we start manipulating God's word as data points and it's really easy to make scripture say things it's not trying to say...

Many have heard the words context, but context is bigger than a paragraph, and it's often bigger than what's on the written page. Context means understanding who was writing, and what their agenda for writing was.

The Bible is living and active when we realize that the Bible is a story, it's history, it's personal letters, it's songs, wisdom, heartache joy and yes, even some rebellion and instruction. When we start reading scripture under these premises, then God's truth through scripture begins to unfold before your very eyes.

 

[XTruth]

It cost Jesus His life to reprove us of sin...Yes, Jesus endured hell-fire for our sakes!

Amen to that!

Jesus didn't get burned in the fire's of hell.

[what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?] Eph.4:9
[he also descended first] Before He ascended to heaven, He descended to hell (Ps. 16:10; Mt. 12:40). He descended, not only from deity to humanity and from humanity to infamy and death (Php. 2:5-11), but also into the lower parts of the earth -- into hell itself to conquer hell and liberate captive souls from Satan (Eph. 4:8-10; Ps. 16:10; 68:18; Mt. 12:40; Heb. 2:14-15). â€â€Dake's Study Notes

[he led captivity captive] The captives that were taken to heaven with Christ were the saints who had died from Abel to Christ, and who were held captive by Satan in paradise under the earth until Christ conquered death, hell, and the grave liberating them (Heb. 2:14-15; Lk. 16:23, notes). He got these captives in the lower parts of the earth (Eph. 4:8-10; Mt. 12:40). They were still alive in soul and spirit since their physical death, but held captive, which proves the immortality of the soul. He could not have led captive, extinct souls. Now when a Christian dies he does not go into the lower parts of the earth to be held captive, but goes to heaven to live and await the resurrection of the body (2Cor. 5:8; Php. 1:21-24; Heb. 12:22-23; Rev. 6:9-11). â€â€Dake's Study Notes

 

[mondar]

I've read that the word rendered as "fool" in many translations of Matthew 5:22 is not the same word that Jesus Christ used elsewhere in the New Testament referring to a fool or foolish. If this is true then Jesus has not condemned Himself to the netherworld. Can someone check and see if this is correct?

I dont know if this will mean anything to you, but you are correct. The word for fool in Matthew 5:22 is "ÃÂακα." (Raka)

The word in Luke 24:25 is "É ανοηÄοι" (O Anoetoi)

In Matthew 23:17 is μÉÃÂοι

Matthew 23:19 does not actually contain the word according the the wescott-hort. But it would be OK to borrow it from verse 17.

You have pointed out something very interesting. I would have to be home with a lexicon and a GNT and do some research to actually learn what the nuances are between each of these greek words. At this time I cannot tell you the differences other then to observe that each of the contexts quoted have a different word. Maybe later I can study this in more detail.

For now, you have pointed out that the OP is shallow rubbish.

 

[Gabe]

Thank you, Mondar!

 

[Sinthesis]

Even if the translated words for 'fool' are the same, when calling another a fool you are judging and dismissing them. Pride in your understanding at the expense of others is dangerous. In Matthew 5, Jesus is contrasting humans standards with those of God, and our sinful standards fall short. As Christians we should therefore have an accommodating, some might say submissive nature.

However, Jesus has the authority to call a fool a fool.

 

[dadof10]

This is why word searches on a topic can be so dangerous... When we start reading scripture as data, then we start manipulating God's word as data points and it's really easy to make scripture say things it's not trying to say...

Many have heard the words context, but context is bigger than a paragraph, and it's often bigger than what's on the written page. Context means understanding who was writing, and what their agenda for writing was.

The Bible is living and active when we realize that the Bible is a story, it's history, it's personal letters, it's songs, wisdom, heartache joy and yes, even some rebellion and instruction. When we start reading scripture under these premises, then God's truth through scripture begins to unfold before your very eyes.

Great points. If we try real hard, we can make Scripture say anything we want it to....OOps...I mean ALMOST anything. Seems like some have trouble distinguishing between hyperbole and literalism.

 

[Ret]

See a Problem....?

Words of wisdom from Solomon...about FOOLS

Ecclesiastes 2:

15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to the fool, so it happeneth even to me;
and why was I then more wise? Then I said in my heart, that this also is vanity.

16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which
now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool. KJV

Solomon, with all his wisdom, compares himself to a 'fool', even the wise man dies as the 'fool'!

 

[Sparkey]

This is why word searches on a topic can be so dangerous... When we start reading scripture as data, then we start manipulating God's word as data points and it's really easy to make scripture say things it's not trying to say...

Many have heard the words context, but context is bigger than a paragraph, and it's often bigger than what's on the written page. Context means understanding who was writing, and what their agenda for writing was.

The Bible is living and active when we realize that the Bible is a story, it's history, it's personal letters, it's songs, wisdom, heartache joy and yes, even some rebellion and instruction. When we start reading scripture under these premises, then God's truth through scripture begins to unfold before your very eyes.

Great points. If we try real hard, we can make Scripture say anything we want it to....OOps...I mean ALMOST anything. Seems like some have trouble distinguishing between hyperbole and literalism.

I stumbled onto a translation in The Complete Jewish Bible that makes too much sense to me:

5 On that day, ADONAI-Tzva'ot will be a glorious crown, a brilliant diadem for the remnant of his people. 6 He will also be a spirit of justice for whoever sits as a judge, and a source of strength for those repelling enemy attacks at the gate. 7 But there are others reeling from wine, staggering about because of strong liquor; cohen and prophet reel from strong liquor, they are confused by wine. Led astray by strong liquor, they err in their visions and stumble when judging. 8 All tables are covered with vomit and feces, not a single place is clean.

9 Can no one be taught anything? Can no one understand the message? Must one teach barely weaned toddlers, babies just taken from the breast, 10 so that [one has to use nursery rhymes]? Tzav la-tzav, tzav la-tzav, kav la-kav, kav la-kav z'eir sham, z'eir sham [Precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there]. 11 So with stammering lips, in a foreign accent, [ADONAI] will speak to this people. 12 He once told this people, "It's time to rest, the exhausted can rest, now you can relax" - but they wouldn't listen. 13 So now the word of ADONAI for them comes "precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there," so that when they walk, they stumble backward, and are broken, trapped and captured!

14 So listen to the word of ADONAI, you scoffers, composing taunts for this people in Yerushalayim: 15 Because you said, "We made a covenant with death, we made a contract with Sh'ol. When the raging flood passes through, it will not touch us. For we have made lies our refuge and hid ourselves in falsehoods"

There is a difference between "the pure milk of the word" --- and ---- "the meat of the word".

~Sparrow

 

[dadof10]

This is why word searches on a topic can be so dangerous... When we start reading scripture as data, then we start manipulating God's word as data points and it's really easy to make scripture say things it's not trying to say...

Many have heard the words context, but context is bigger than a paragraph, and it's often bigger than what's on the written page. Context means understanding who was writing, and what their agenda for writing was.

The Bible is living and active when we realize that the Bible is a story, it's history, it's personal letters, it's songs, wisdom, heartache joy and yes, even some rebellion and instruction. When we start reading scripture under these premises, then God's truth through scripture begins to unfold before your very eyes.

Great points. If we try real hard, we can make Scripture say anything we want it to....OOps...I mean ALMOST anything. Seems like some have trouble distinguishing between hyperbole and literalism.

I stumbled onto a translation in The Complete Jewish Bible that makes too much sense to me:

5 On that day, ADONAI-Tzva'ot will be a glorious crown, a brilliant diadem for the remnant of his people. 6 He will also be a spirit of justice for whoever sits as a judge, and a source of strength for those repelling enemy attacks at the gate. 7 But there are others reeling from wine, staggering about because of strong liquor; cohen and prophet reel from strong liquor, they are confused by wine. Led astray by strong liquor, they err in their visions and stumble when judging. 8 All tables are covered with vomit and Jesus is Lord of all, not a single place is clean.

9 Can no one be taught anything? Can no one understand the message? Must one teach barely weaned toddlers, babies just taken from the breast, 10 so that [one has to use nursery rhymes]? Tzav la-tzav, tzav la-tzav, kav la-kav, kav la-kav z'eir sham, z'eir sham [Precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there]. 11 So with stammering lips, in a foreign accent, [ADONAI] will speak to this people. 12 He once told this people, "It's time to rest, the exhausted can rest, now you can relax" - but they wouldn't listen. 13 So now the word of ADONAI for them comes "precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there," so that when they walk, they stumble backward, and are broken, trapped and captured!

14 So listen to the word of ADONAI, you scoffers, composing taunts for this people in Yerushalayim: 15 Because you said, "We made a covenant with death, we made a contract with Sh'ol. When the raging flood passes through, it will not touch us. For we have made lies our refuge and hid ourselves in falsehoods"

There is a difference between "the pure milk of the word" --- and ---- "the meat of the word".

~Sparrow

 

[Sparkey]

In English? I was trying to agree with what was being said and adding my strange

Many men have been taught by other men to string scriptures together. While being taught they are pointed to the Scripture, "Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little," but with the Complete Jewish translation my eyes were open to another possibility. (( that is not to say that I have any great love for one translation over another - but only to say that it was useful to me in this manner ))

While we are young and in need of milk - this [*the 'stringing' of Scriptures together] is a very good thing. We can find out much in the word from looking at a concordance (written by men) and following "chain reference" bibles. They string scriptures together according to concept but result in a "canned" presentation when trying to seek the "meat of the word".

In other words, God desires and will actually write His word (logos) upon our hearts. As we act upon what is written (the logos in our hearts) our hearts become circumcised (so-to-speak). We need only allow Him to perform this work in us and part of that is by looking to Him and not to man. As we allow this and continue in it, we become "epistles written of God and read of men," and will see less and less of certain "conflicts" in the word. It is then that we can say with confidence, "No, I don't really see any problem here."

Better?

~Sparrow

 

[einstein]

This is why word searches on a topic can be so dangerous... When we start reading scripture as data, then we start manipulating God's word as data points and it's really easy to make scripture say things it's not trying to say...

Many have heard the words context, but context is bigger than a paragraph, and it's often bigger than what's on the written page. Context means understanding who was writing, and what their agenda for writing was.

The Bible is living and active when we realize that the Bible is a story, it's history, it's personal letters, it's songs, wisdom, heartache joy and yes, even some rebellion and instruction. When we start reading scripture under these premises, then God's truth through scripture begins to unfold before your very eyes.

Great points. If we try real hard, we can make Scripture say anything we want it to....OOps...I mean ALMOST anything. Seems like some have trouble distinguishing between hyperbole and literalism.

I stumbled onto a translation in The Complete Jewish Bible that makes too much sense to me:

5 On that day, ADONAI-Tzva'ot will be a glorious crown, a brilliant diadem for the remnant of his people. 6 He will also be a spirit of justice for whoever sits as a judge, and a source of strength for those repelling enemy attacks at the gate. 7 But there are others reeling from wine, staggering about because of strong liquor; cohen and prophet reel from strong liquor, they are confused by wine. Led astray by strong liquor, they err in their visions and stumble when judging. 8 All tables are covered with vomit and Jesus is Lord of all, not a single place is clean.

9 Can no one be taught anything? Can no one understand the message? Must one teach barely weaned toddlers, babies just taken from the breast, 10 so that [one has to use nursery rhymes]? Tzav la-tzav, tzav la-tzav, kav la-kav, kav la-kav z'eir sham, z'eir sham [Precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there]. 11 So with stammering lips, in a foreign accent, [ADONAI] will speak to this people. 12 He once told this people, "It's time to rest, the exhausted can rest, now you can relax" - but they wouldn't listen. 13 So now the word of ADONAI for them comes "precept by precept, precept by precept, line by line, line by line, a little here, a little there," so that when they walk, they stumble backward, and are broken, trapped and captured!

14 So listen to the word of ADONAI, you scoffers, composing taunts for this people in Yerushalayim: 15 Because you said, "We made a covenant with death, we made a contract with Sh'ol. When the raging flood passes through, it will not touch us. For we have made lies our refuge and hid ourselves in falsehoods"

There is a difference between "the pure milk of the word" --- and ---- "the meat of the word".

~Sparrow

I have never heard of this bible- but it certainly is not Jewish!

The quote from Isaiah 28:8 from the Hebrew is "For all the tables were filled with vomit and filthiness, without (a) place." Where do you see the words "and Jesus is Lord of all" in this verse? Why do Christians persist in mistranslating and perverting the real meaning of the Hebrew Bible to justify their beliefs? :crazy

 

[Sparkey]

I have never heard of this bible- but it certainly is not Jewish!

The quote from Isaiah 28:8 from the Hebrew is "For all the tables were filled with vomit and filthiness, without (a) place." Where do you see the words "and Jesus is Lord of all" in this verse? Why do Christians persist in mistranslating and perverting the real meaning of the Hebrew Bible to justify their beliefs? :crazy

Perhaps your question(s) may be better addressed to the publisher than to me?

My part was a simple cut-n-paste, used by permission.

Scripture quotations were taken (by permission) from the Complete Jewish Bible, copyright© 1998 by David H. Stern. The Complete Jewish Bible is published by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc. http://www.messianicjewish.net/jntp, Distributed by Messianic Jewish Resources. http://www.messianicjewish.net. All rights reserved.

~Sparrowhawke