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Does Ephesians 1:12-14 tell born again believers?

Does Ephesians 1:12-14 tell born again believers that they have their salvation sealed by the Holy S

  • Yes, this Scripture Guarantees that a Born Again Believer will remain a Child of God forever.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • This Scripture has nothing to do with eternal life.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4

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What does this verse teach about eternal life. Does Ephesians 1:12-14 tell born again believers that they have their salvation sealed by the Holy Spirit until Jesus returns?

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted F2 in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:12-14
 
Solo, sure born again believers are sealed ....so long as they are (born again)...sure we all sin and fall short... The problem that I have with OSAS is that it only calls for an 'experience' without the fruits thereof.
I have heard you guys say that a christian can live like the world and only lose rewards. How would you know the person who does such a thing is 'sealed' in the first place? Is that what 'born again' looks like according to scripture? NO!
Thats my point. You shouldn't be pushing such a heretical doctrine. A born again christian will have the fruits of a new life in Christ, they won't look and act like the world.
If we get caught up in sin, God will discipline those He loves and reel us back in.
Sure we all sin, but the difference is we don't live as the world does ...we are repentant and obedient to Christ.
There is no way I can make that any plainer.
 
destiny said:
Solo, sure born again believers are sealed ....so long as they are (born again)...sure we all sin and fall short... The problem that I have with OSAS is that it only calls for an 'experience' without the fruits thereof.
I have heard you guys say that a christian can live like the world and only lose rewards. How would you know the person who does such a thing is 'sealed' in the first place?
You dont know, and thats my point. You shouldn't be pushing such a heretical doctrine. A born again christian will have the fruits of a new life in Christ, they won't look and act like the world.
If we get caught up in sin, God will discipline those He loves and reel us back in.
Sure we all sin, but the difference is we don't live as the world does ...we are repentant and obedient to Christ.
There is no way I can make that any plainer.
Born again believers are BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Those who are not born again believers but say that they are have never been born again, nor would they believe to be born again. When Jesus said to those who said Lord, Lord we have done great things in your name. Jesus told them to depart from him, that they were workers of iniquity, and that he NEVER KNEW THEM. They were NEVER known by Jesus. They were never born again!

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [/color Matthew 7:22-23
 
Solo said:
Born again believers are BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Those who are not born again believers but say that they are have never been born again, nor would they believe to be born again. When Jesus said to those who said Lord, Lord we have done great things in your name. Jesus told them to depart from him, that they were workers of iniquity, and that he NEVER KNEW THEM. They were NEVER known by Jesus. They were never born again!

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [/color Matthew 7:22-23
I can go along with that, solo ...So long as a person IS born again they are sealed. ;-)
 
destiny said:
I can go along with that, solo ...So long as a person IS born again they are sealed. ;-)
Those who are born again must walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh, otherwise they will be destroyed physically in this world. God chastises those whom he loves, and there is not other reason for God's chastisement except for continuing to live in the flesh. Sadly it is difficult to determine whether some are born again or not, based on their actions; but there are all degrees of spiritual maturity in the Christian walk, with babes in Christ to Fathers who have overcome. Some are on the milk of the word, while others are eating the meat. All born again believers are children of God forever.
 
63 views and 3 votes. Amazing. I did not realize how the teaching of justification and being born again as a promise which God keeps could be so misunderstood by so many professing Christians.
 
Solo said:
[/b]Those who are born again must walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh, otherwise they will be destroyed physically in this world. God chastises those whom he loves, and there is not other reason for God's chastisement except for continuing to live in the flesh. Sadly it is difficult to determine whether some are born again or not, based on their actions; but there are all degrees of spiritual maturity in the Christian walk, with babes in Christ to Fathers who have overcome. Some are on the milk of the word, while others are eating the meat. All born again believers are children of God forever.
Solo, I can pretty much agree with everything you said except the last sentence. I have no desire to rehash that one at this time.
I didn't vote in your poll because I didn't see a catagory I really agreed with.
I would have voted like this...
"No, this Scripture Guarantees that a Born Again Believer will not remain a Child of God forever unless they continue in (relationship) with the Lord and walk in (obedience) thereof."
2 conditions: relationship & obedience
 
I believe this passage tells us that those who by faith receive the gospel and believe in Christ are sealed by the holy Spirit until the day of redemption. And this means that having been given the gift of life we have become the children of God.

But Ephesians also contains warning for these. It warns against: lying, sinning in anger, giving place to the devil, stealing, idleness, corrupt communication, grieving the holy Spirit, bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, malice, evil speaking, unforgiveness, fornication, uncleanness, covetousness, filthiness, jesting and makes this very sobering statement, “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.â€Â

Now what do you suggest is the reason for such a warning, if those who are born again, are guaranteed salvation?
 
mutzrein said:
I believe this passage tells us that those who by faith receive the gospel and believe in Christ are sealed by the holy Spirit until the day of redemption. And this means that having been given the gift of life we have become the children of God.

But Ephesians also contains warning for these. It warns against: lying, sinning in anger, giving place to the devil, stealing, idleness, corrupt communication, grieving the holy Spirit, bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, malice, evil speaking, unforgiveness, fornication, uncleanness, covetousness, filthiness, jesting and makes this very sobering statement, “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.â€Â

Now what do you suggest is the reason for such a warning, if those who are born again, are guaranteed salvation?
It is difficult to understand the position that a believer is in unless one understands what Paul is speaking of in Romans, and what John is speaking of in his writings.

Read the Scripture very carefully. Notice that flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Notice that have borne the image of the earthy (the natural body), and we shall bear the image of the heavenly. We, believers, shall all be changed from the fleshly, corrupt, earthy body, to a spiritual, incorrupt, heavenly body.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:42-57

Those that have committed acts as you reveal in their fleshly, corrupt, earthy body awaiting their redemption will be resurrected incorrupt after being changed. That NEW CREATURE that resides within the corrupt, fleshly, earthy, natural man will one day be freed from ALL corruption, sin, death, etc.

Notice that John says that those that are born of God cannot sin.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:8

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

Does this align with Scripture that says that those born of God are not to sin, but if they do, they they have an advocate in Jesus Christ, righteous; and it is Him that is the propitiation (appeasement) for our sins? Sure it does. All Scripture is truth and can be used for reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17). When one understands what Paul is teaching in Romans 7 and Romans 8 about the sinful flesh and the righteous spirit, one can begin to understand the security that born of God believers have in their new permanent eternal life that has been coined as OSAS. It is easy to be a against a label that is not understood, but it is difficult to be against the Word of God.

Paul tells the Corinthians that any work that those born of God do of the fleshly, earthy, natural man (Old Man) will burn up as wood, hay, and stubble but that they will be saved through the fire; but any work that is done by the spiritual man (New Man) will remain through the fire as gold, silver, and precious stones.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-14

It took me four years in my young Christian walk to understand the teaching that a born of God, born again believer could not lose his/her salvation, but that being chastised in this life by God Almighty and the loss of rewards is the ramifications and consequences to sin. One who sins will be recompensed greatly, yet be saved as promised.
 
mutzrein said:
“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.â€Â

Now what do you suggest is the reason for such a warning, if those who are born again, are guaranteed salvation?
1. Are you saying that the saint's position which is expounded in Eph. 1-3 is in danger by not taking heed to these warnings? A simple yes or no will do.

2. Positional truth - The saint is not a whoremonger, unclean, covetous man, etc. You may see them as these but God does not. God sees him as a saint - this is what he is in God's eyes in Christ.
Can a saint commit whoredom, be coveteous, steal, etc.? Oh yes he can but the law of reaping and sowing will come into play. What will he reap down here? - he can be divorced, lose his joy and peace, get sick from drinking, get arrested for stealing - a lot can happen down here but what he does cannot change who he is in Christ.

True saints need to learn to think positional and act accordingly - Eph. 4:1

The unregenrate man keeps his eyes on his practical walk and seeks to make this his basis for his position. He's got it backwards.

God bless
 
destiny said:
I didn't vote in your poll because I didn't see a catagory I really agreed with.
I would have voted like this...
"No, this Scripture Guarantees that a Born Again Believer will not remain a Child of God forever unless they continue in (relationship) with the Lord and walk in (obedience) thereof."
2 conditions: relationship & obedience

Yea, I thought the poll choices were pretty skewed, as well.

Being a child of God does not guarantee entry into the Kingdom of Heaven.


Regards
 
I also didn't vote because it is too black and white and can give some a false sence of security. While I believe we are each predestined as God's childeren and Jesus gives us great reassurance of this in John 10:25-30, I still am not a firm believer in OSAS. I think that while God's grace and forgiveness is for everyone, I still think that a person (believer or not) can choose to deny it and thus forfeit his/her salvation.
 
AVBunyan said:
1. Are you saying that the saint's position which is expounded in Eph. 1-3 is in danger by not taking heed to these warnings? A simple yes or no will do.

2. Positional truth - The saint is not a whoremonger, unclean, covetous man, etc. You may see them as these but God does not. God sees him as a saint - this is what he is in God's eyes in Christ.
Can a saint commit whoredom, be coveteous, steal, etc.? Oh yes he can but the law of reaping and sowing will come into play. What will he reap down here? - he can be divorced, lose his joy and peace, get sick from drinking, get arrested for stealing - a lot can happen down here but what he does cannot change who he is in Christ.

True saints need to learn to think positional and act accordingly - Eph. 4:1

The unregenrate man keeps his eyes on his practical walk and seeks to make this his basis for his position. He's got it backwards.

God bless
AV...You have bought into the American lie and set yourself up as a false teacher who proclaims things Jesus never said. It is a dangerous thing to be teaching others that a "sealed" person can live as the world and it will not change their position in Christ.
The people who are sealed are those who ARE born again! Of course you obviously don't realize what 'born again' really means, so I will show you some mercy because of the probability you have been brainwashed through denominationalism into buying into these lies.

The word of God says..
I Cor.6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Now you have added to the word of God by stating that a "bornagain" believer can walk in those sins daily without repentance, and still be sealed. This is clearly a heresy that comes with a license to sin.

Heres a simple verse that refutes your presumptions..

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Again I have to assume you don't know what being 'born again' means because if you did you would realize that it means we no long live according to our sin nature.

I can understand you having personal views of uncertainity about where someone who lives in sin will end up for eternity, but to outright teach that a person who is "sealed" can practice sin unrepentedly makes you a false teacher of the worse kind.
No wonder it's such a mess out there. :sad

PS..A person who makes sin an unrepented daily practice is simply a part of the unregenerate world, no matter what they 'claim' to be.
 
destiny said:
1. You have bought into the American lie and set yourself up as a false teacher who proclaims things Jesus never said.

2. It is a dangerous thing to be teaching others that a "sealed" person can live as the world and it will not change their position in Christ.

3. The people who are sealed are those who ARE born again!

4. Of course you obviously don't realize what 'born again' really means,

5. so I will show you some mercy because of the probability you have been brainwashed through denominationalism into buying into these lies.

6. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

7. Now you have added to the word of God by stating that a "bornagain" believer can walk in those sins daily without repentance, and still be sealed. This is clearly a heresy that comes with a license to sin.

8. John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

9. Again I have to assume you don't know what being 'born again' means because if you did you would realize that it means we no long live according to our sin nature.

10. .A person who makes sin an unrepented daily practice is simply a part of the unregenerate world, no matter what they 'claim' to be.

Below is mainly for readers of this thread.

1. Jesus wasn’t ready to reveal grace/church age/body of Christ truth yet – this was given to Paul by Christ today. Obviously it has not been revealed to you yet – II Cor. 4:3 and I Cor.12:14

2. Go shake your fist at Paul then for he taught positional truth based upon Christ’s work at Calvary. This obviously has been hid from you – II Cor. 4:3 and I Cor.12:14.

3. You do not know the difference between sealed today vs. born again in John 3 as it pertains to Israel as a nation - II Cor. 4:3 and I Cor.12:14.

4. You assume much about me - See the above point - #3 – If you want I’ll re-post my post on John 3 but I’m sure you will look at it like a tree full of owls. :o

5. May I politely say you are very disrespectfully, smart mouthed, and lack grace in forum discussions. Forgive me moderators.

6. Saints are not unrighteous in God’s eyes but they do unrighteous things everyday. Praise the Lord for grace.

7. True saints who understand seek to live by grace - Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
It may be that you have no understanding of grace only law.

8. I won’t even attempt to expound to you the passage as it relates to Israel and the body of Christ.

9. See points # 8 and #4 and #3

10. We actually agree here – I would question the salvation of a consistently unrepentant person. I also quesion the salvation of those who firmly believe they can “lose itâ€Â.
 
Galations 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

So if I died with Christ, and it is now Christ who lives in me and through me, how can Jesus loose his salvation?
 
oscar3 said:
Galations 2:20
but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

So if I died with Christ, and it is now Christ who lives in me and through me, how can Jesus loose his salvation?
Oscar3 I see where you are heading and I agree but the version you use does not support your view BTW. Allow me the liberty to demonstrate if I may.

According to the modern vseions it is your faith "in the Son of God" Look at what the AV says:"and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God,"

According to the newer versions if your faith falters then you are in a mess - The AV teaches it is Chris't faith we live by and this faith is secure. I believe this is what you really believe - is this correct? :wink:

God bless
 
AVBunyan said:
Oscar3 I see where you are heading and I agree but the version you use does not support your view BTW. Allow me the liberty to demonstrate if I may.

According to the modern vseions it is your faith "in the Son of God" Look at what the AV says:"and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God,"

According to the newer versions if your faith falters then you are in a mess - The AV teaches it is Chris't faith we live by and this faith is secure. I believe this is what you really believe - is this correct? :wink:

God bless

Good stuff AV, This is why I am here to learn.
Am I reading that verse correctly though?
Can you comment a little bit further on it?
Thanks O
 
oscar3 said:
Good stuff AV, This is why I am here to learn.
Am I reading that verse correctly though?
Can you comment a little bit further on it?Thanks O
Oscar3 – Thanks for kind words. Again, I feel you were heading in the right direction but Gal. 2:20 goes another route I believe.

I feel that Gal. 2:20 not only teaches positional truth but identification truth as well. The identification truth here is found in theâ€ÂI am crucified…†The saint died with Christ, he was buried with Christ, and has risen with Christ. Romans 6 are the details. Because of this identification with Christ this gives us our position with Christ – perfect in Christ seated with Christ in the heavenly places – Eph. 1-3. And you are right since Christ is alive and risen and we are identified with his death, burial, and resurrection then our position is secure because Christ is not going to die or fall away. Because we are identified with him we are not going to die the second death nor fall away either. God gets the glory here.

The second part of the verse…â€Âlive by the faith of...†is based upon the “am crucified...â€Â. The saint thus lives by the faith of Christ because we are identified with him. This is why the King James needs to be used. Changing the “of†to “in†places the emphasis on the saint’s faith which is weak at best.

Hope this helps

BTW - God will honor your desire to learn.

God bless
 
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