Does One Have To Be A Christian To Do What Is Right?

[Adullam]

Is there righteousness outside the church?

 

[Adullam]

Here's a little story...

There once was a king who dressed in peasants clothes in order to visit his kingdom to ascertain what the people thought of him. While riding one day, thus attired, he fell into a ditch and injured himself. A local farmer found him, not knowing who he was, and took him home and nursed him back to health, expecting nothing in return.


Now, most Christians would say that the farmer deserves no reward from the king since he did not recognize the one in peasants clothes as the king.

But if the king was righteous, wouldn't he reward the farmer even more so since he helped a man who was (he thought) not able to reward him for his good deed? Wouldn't a righteous king be happy that his people loved their neighbours as themselves? Or would he only care about people helping him because he is king?

Anybody would help a king for reward. God Himself hides His glory from we bounty hunters. He rewards those who help others because they love them as themselves.


<><

John

 

[epistemaniac]

it all depends on what the motives were for doing any deed, as to whether or not it ought to be considered good. It seems to me that anyone who consciously rejects God, or is outside of God's kingdom, does not capacity to do that which God considers to be good. Psalms 14:1 (ESV) The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.†They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good."
and
Isaiah 64:6a (ESV) We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment."

Donald Trump gave a billion dollars to the UN... the world of course considers this a good deed, but given that it is given from within a self consciously chosen position of hating God, almost a proof that one does not even need God in order to be "good", then that which the world considers good is really abominable in God's eyes.

So no, I do not think that a person or their deeds can be called good in God's eyes, the only eyes that matter.... though perhaps the world may indeed call certain deeds "good"... IMHO...

Hosea 6:6 (ESV) For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. "

blessings,
ken

 

[Adullam]

it all depends on what the motives were for doing any deed, as to whether or not it ought to be considered good. It seems to me that anyone who consciously rejects God, or is outside of God's kingdom, does not capacity to do that which God considers to be good. Psalms 14:1 (ESV) The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.†They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good."
and
Isaiah 64:6a (ESV) We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment."

Donald Trump gave a billion dollars to the UN... the world of course considers this a good deed, but given that it is given from within a self consciously chosen position of hating God, almost a proof that one does not even need God in order to be "good", then that which the world considers good is really abominable in God's eyes.

So no, I do not think that a person or their deeds can be called good in God's eyes, the only eyes that matter.... though perhaps the world may indeed call certain deeds "good"... IMHO...

Hosea 6:6 (ESV) For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. "

blessings,
ken

Hi Ken,

Unfortunately you are answering a question that I am not asking. There is a diffference between good and right. Good speaks of a quality that only God possesses. Right is simply the right thing to do at the time. Perhaps you could reconsider the question?

 

[icamewithasword]

Here's a little story...

There once was a king who dressed in peasants clothes in order to visit his kingdom to ascertain what the people thought of him. While riding one day, thus attired, he fell into a ditch and injured himself. A local farmer found him, not knowing who he was, and took him home and nursed him back to health, expecting nothing in return.


Now, most Christians would say that the farmer deserves no reward from the king since he did not recognize the one in peasants clothes as the king.

But if the king was righteous, wouldn't he reward the farmer even more so since he helped a man who was (he thought) not able to reward him for his good deed? Wouldn't a righteous king be happy that his people loved their neighbours as themselves? Or would he only care about people helping him because he is king?

Anybody would help a king for reward. God Himself hides His glory from we bounty hunters. He rewards those who help others because they love them as themselves.


<><

John

Does one have to be a Christian to do what is right?
Does one have to be Christ-like to do the right thing?

1. The "right thing" is subjective based on individual beliefs and "morals". Not everyone would believe helping the king is the "right thing" to do. Most would help the king, regardless their religious beliefs, and may not even expect reward.
2. As far as God rewarding those that do good deeds......IMO you would only actualy reveive that reward (salvation?) by your faith in Jesus Christ. Reward (salvation) comes thru our faith, and not thru our works (deeds).

 

[Adullam]

Here's a little story...

There once was a king who dressed in peasants clothes in order to visit his kingdom to ascertain what the people thought of him. While riding one day, thus attired, he fell into a ditch and injured himself. A local farmer found him, not knowing who he was, and took him home and nursed him back to health, expecting nothing in return.


Now, most Christians would say that the farmer deserves no reward from the king since he did not recognize the one in peasants clothes as the king.

But if the king was righteous, wouldn't he reward the farmer even more so since he helped a man who was (he thought) not able to reward him for his good deed? Wouldn't a righteous king be happy that his people loved their neighbours as themselves? Or would he only care about people helping him because he is king?

Anybody would help a king for reward. God Himself hides His glory from we bounty hunters. He rewards those who help others because they love them as themselves.


<><

John

Does one have to be a Christian to do what is right?
Does one have to be Christ-like to do the right thing?

Yes those were the questions!

1. The "right thing" is subjective based on individual beliefs and "morals". Not everyone would believe helping the king is the "right thing" to do. Most would help the king, regardless their religious beliefs, and may not even expect reward.

Actually the right thing to do is universal. Jesus gave many parables about doing what is right...and there was never any issue among the Jews. They knew what was right. They just didn't always do it.



2. As far as God rewarding those that do good deeds......IMO you would only actualy reveive that reward (salvation?) by your faith in Jesus Christ. Reward (salvation) comes thru our faith, and not thru our works (deeds).

You are saying that we will be judged by our faith? Where is that written? :gah

Pax

John

 

[RND]

Is there righteousness outside the church?

Is there righteousness "in" the church (subjective)? Does one automatically become righteous because of the church (subjective)? Or, is it more likely that when one does things that are of the law that it is evidence of the law written on their hearts? Does one need to be a member of the "church" (subjective) for God to work inside them and to see His will accomplished in their lives?

 

[Imagican]

Even those that are 'wicked' are able to the 'right thing' at times. The problem is being able to discern the TRUTH behind actions. For there are many that able to offer a 'semblance of love' but their hearts are FAR from it.

And NO, there ARE those that LOVE God without the trappings of what is NOW 'called' the church. I believe that those that ARE able to offer 'true love' ARE a part of THE Church whether they attend meetings or NOT. For those that are able to understand and offer TRUE LOVE ARE a 'part of the Body of Christ'. Regardless of 'attending' man-made churches.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[RND]

Even those that are 'wicked' are able to the 'right thing' at times. The problem is being able to discern the TRUTH behind actions. For there are many that able to offer a 'semblance of love' but their hearts are FAR from it.

And NO, there ARE those that LOVE God without the trappings of what is NOW 'called' the church. I believe that those that ARE able to offer 'true love' ARE a part of THE Church whether they attend meetings or NOT. For those that are able to understand and offer TRUE LOVE ARE a 'part of the Body of Christ'. Regardless of 'attending' man-made churches.

Blessings,

MEC

Nice thoughts.

I think, in the spirit of Christian love and fellowship, we should praise God and embrace those 'wicked' when they do good....for it is from God and God alone that they even do these things in the first place.

 

[Rick W]

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[mutzrein]

Is there righteousness outside the church?

If you are speaking of church, which is the body of Christ, then . . . No!

As scripture says, "There is NONE righteous, no not one."

 

[Imagican]

I believe ALL are inherently gifted with life. And this life comes FROM God. Since ALL were 'created in the image' of God, then ALL have the capacity to show LOVE.

Genetically, we are predisposed to LOVE. That many rebel AGAINST that which they are inherently born into does NOT show that they were NOT 'born so'. TOO much of this world has TOO much influence on us from birth. Therefore MOST will NEVER recognize nor obtain that which they were MEANT to BE.

Mutz,

You are absolutely RIGHT in that, "not one is righteous'', but that does NOT keep even the UNRIGHTEOUS from offering the LOVE that was created USWARD. Even the MOST wicked, are at times, able to SHOW the LOVE Of God since EACH was created IN HIS IMAGE. That does NOT make them 'righteous'. Just able to SHOW the LOVE in which they were 'created'. Whether this LOVE is accepted AS God does not alter the LOVE that exists in this world. God USES who He will in order to bring His children TO Him. Both the outright wicked and those that are able to follow a 'different path'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Adullam]

Is there righteousness outside the church?

If you are speaking of church, which is the body of Christ, then . . . No!

As scripture says, "There is NONE righteous, no not one."

finish the quote...."that doesn't sin."

This is the most twisted scripture in the bible. It is never finished.


Let's take a look at this statement... He was a great liar. Now if I leave a word out, I could say that he was great!

Our righteousness is not as great as God's righteousness. His Way is far above our own. We will sin because of our weakness and fallen nature. But we will overcome as Jesus did through having His nature in us. If we walk in God's righteousness then we CANNOT SIN. Get the truth straight!!!

Do you believe in God's righteousness? Do you believe in the nature of God? Do you still sin?

 

[Adullam]

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

This is another issue. This speaks of God's righteousness. We are not qualified to look at such high things before we understand what simple righteousness is. As Christians we start at the end of the story, but never understand what's going on. We need to go back to the earlier chapters to understand the context and scope of what the meaning of the word is. Otherwise we miss the message entirely.

Peace

John

 

[mutzrein]

Is there righteousness outside the church?

If you are speaking of church, which is the body of Christ, then . . . No!

As scripture says, "There is NONE righteous, no not one."

finish the quote...."that doesn't sin."

This is the most twisted scripture in the bible. It is never finished.


Let's take a look at this statement... He was a great liar. Now if I leave a word out, I could say that he was great!

Our righteousness is not as great as God's righteousness. His Way is far above our own. We will sin because of our weakness and fallen nature. But we will overcome as Jesus did through having His nature in us. If we walk in God's righteousness then we CANNOT SIN. Get the truth straight!!!

Do you believe in God's righteousness? Do you believe in the nature of God? Do you still sin?

Finish what quote?

 

[Adullam]

I believe ALL are inherently gifted with life. And this life comes FROM God. Since ALL were 'created in the image' of God, then ALL have the capacity to show LOVE.

Genetically, we are predisposed to LOVE. That many rebel AGAINST that which they are inherently born into does NOT show that they were NOT 'born so'. TOO much of this world has TOO much influence on us from birth. Therefore MOST will NEVER recognize nor obtain that which they were MEANT to BE.

Mutz,

You are absolutely RIGHT in that, "not one is righteous'', but that does NOT keep even the UNRIGHTEOUS from offering the LOVE that was created USWARD. Even the MOST wicked, are at times, able to SHOW the LOVE Of God since EACH was created IN HIS IMAGE. That does NOT make them 'righteous'. Just able to SHOW the LOVE in which they were 'created'. Whether this LOVE is accepted AS God does not alter the LOVE that exists in this world. God USES who He will in order to bring His children TO Him. Both the outright wicked and those that are able to follow a 'different path'.

Blessings,

MEC

You start off well, but miss the implications. To whom much is given much is required. To whom little is given, little is required. You don't expect as much from a child as from an adult. We are blown away when a 2 year old can spell, and tie his shoes.

You still need to see from God's perspective and lose the dogmatics. Then you will see how off we are as Christians.

 

[mutzrein]

I believe ALL are inherently gifted with life. And this life comes FROM God. Since ALL were 'created in the image' of God, then ALL have the capacity to show LOVE.

Genetically, we are predisposed to LOVE. That many rebel AGAINST that which they are inherently born into does NOT show that they were NOT 'born so'. TOO much of this world has TOO much influence on us from birth. Therefore MOST will NEVER recognize nor obtain that which they were MEANT to BE.

Mutz,

You are absolutely RIGHT in that, "not one is righteous'', but that does NOT keep even the UNRIGHTEOUS from offering the LOVE that was created USWARD. Even the MOST wicked, are at times, able to SHOW the LOVE Of God since EACH was created IN HIS IMAGE. That does NOT make them 'righteous'. Just able to SHOW the LOVE in which they were 'created'. Whether this LOVE is accepted AS God does not alter the LOVE that exists in this world. God USES who He will in order to bring His children TO Him. Both the outright wicked and those that are able to follow a 'different path'.

Blessings,

MEC

This takes us down a completely different path because I don't believe that we are ALL (or EACH) made in God's image. I believe that there are two accounts of creation. One is of the flesh (which we all partcipate in) and the other is of the Spirit - which is in the image of God.

"The flesh counts for nothing but the Spirit gives life."

 

[RND]

I believe ALL are inherently gifted with life. And this life comes FROM God. Since ALL were 'created in the image' of God, then ALL have the capacity to show LOVE.

Genetically, we are predisposed to LOVE. That many rebel AGAINST that which they are inherently born into does NOT show that they were NOT 'born so'. TOO much of this world has TOO much influence on us from birth. Therefore MOST will NEVER recognize nor obtain that which they were MEANT to BE.

Mutz,

You are absolutely RIGHT in that, "not one is righteous'', but that does NOT keep even the UNRIGHTEOUS from offering the LOVE that was created USWARD. Even the MOST wicked, are at times, able to SHOW the LOVE Of God since EACH was created IN HIS IMAGE. That does NOT make them 'righteous'. Just able to SHOW the LOVE in which they were 'created'. Whether this LOVE is accepted AS God does not alter the LOVE that exists in this world. God USES who He will in order to bring His children TO Him. Both the outright wicked and those that are able to follow a 'different path'.

Blessings,

MEC

You start off well, but miss the implications. To whom much is given much is required. To whom little is given, little is required. You don't expect as much from a child as from an adult. We are blown away when a 2 year old can spell, and tie his shoes.

You still need to see from God's perspective and lose the dogmatics. Then you will see how off we are as Christians.

Is there righteousness outside the church?

I think it would be helpful Adullam if you were more direct and less cryptic in your postings......

Righteousness is only found in Christ. If something is good, lovely and righteousness worthy to behold it is of God. If not, it is from Satan.

 

[Adullam]

Finish what quote?

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

A righteous man does what is right...only God is good. A good work is a perfect work. A man will sin if he is not in Christ. But he may still be righteous in God's eyes. That's why we can't judge from ourselves. We are blind to righteousness.

God is easy to please but hard to satisfy!

 

[Adullam]

It is no wonder that there is no unity or power in the church today. We need to start all over again, I'm afraid. I despair at trying to explain the most basic biblical doctrines. Repeating mantras does not equal the truth. God has surely blinded those who do not love the truth.