Does this prove the Messiah is the Father?

[wavy]

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son ha Moshiach יהושׁע. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Seems John is directly alluding to here:

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and ha Moshiach יהושׁע, whom thou hast sent.

Notice the same exact terms along with the definite article "the". So if we are to say 1 John 5:20 is referring to the Son, what do we do to John 17:3? (John is obviously referring to that incident since he was there and heard it and uses the same terminology).

And if 1 John 5:20 is referring to the Father, where does this leave the Messiah?

And btw, I do not currently believe that Yahshua is the Father.

Oh yeah, and please do not give me a link or post some long post about how the Messiah is Elohim or about the trinity. That is not the issue here. I'm looking for a direct answer to the above concerning who the Father is. I'd appreciate it.

 

[greyfeather]

This is hard because when you read the Bible it is as though the 2 are seperate in so many places. I mean Yashua talks and prays to his father in heaven. There is so much comunication that its hard to think the whole time God was talking to himself . Also when it says..... For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. And the fact that God could die and be dead for 3 three days I didn't think God could die. So I am in a quandry about this issue.


Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[lovely]

I believe that Jesus is the Son, a distinct person in the trinity of God. The Lord bless you.

 

[wavy]

I believe that Jesus is the Son, a distinct person in the trinity of God. The Lord bless you.

Wavy repeats:

Oh yeah, and please do not give me a link or post some long post about how the Messiah is Elohim or about the trinity. That is not the issue here. I'm looking for a direct answer to the above concerning who the Father is. I'd appreciate it.

 

[Vic C.]

And btw, I do not currently believe that Yahshua is the Father.

Wavy, one cannot reconcile this unless they do one of two things:

Deny His deity or accept Trinitarian doctrine as a response. IMO.

I agree with lovely. 8-)

 

[wavy]

And btw, I do not currently believe that Yahshua is the Father.

Wavy, one cannot reconcile this unless they do one of two things:

Deny His deity or accept Trinitarian doctrine as a response. IMO.

Not really. For neither options. Option #2 especially because this denies the trinity if it refers to the Son. It proves, without question, that he is the Father. And that means the trinity does not exist.

If he says the Father is the true deity/god, and then John comes along and says that he is the true deity/god, then that must mean he is the Father, not a second person in a trinity.

On the other hand, it does not deny his deity. It just means he is not the only true god. There's a number of ways you could play with what I just said.

You could be a Jehovah's witness and say Messiah is a separate, lesser god.

You could say that although he is part of the echad, he recognizes the greater part of the echad as the Father (I believe this because he says the Father is greater than he is, and he does not change according to Hebrews 13:8). And no, not greater necessarily in nature, but in position and authority (the Son never did and cannot "send" the Father or command him to do anything).

You could appeal to the Hebrew language and say he meant elohim, generally meaning "mighty one(s)" (not "god" necessarily). Then you could say he was just glorifying him in his might and power, not concerning who the supreme ruler of creation is.

Either way, I do not think "trinity" is an option in this case unless you play a very funny number.