Don't Call Him Reverend ?

[Lewis]

I have a question, why should we not, or why should we call someone Reverend ? I will not call anyone Reverend. This is a old topic, but we have turned over a lot of people on this board, so I would like to know what do you call your pastor ?

 

[Adullam]

We don't worship the man, we worship the position!! :gah Besides the bible does not forbid us to call a man reverend...just rabbi, master, or father. Those clever clergy-ists! ;)

 

[Lewis]

It is only in one place in the Bible and that is Psalms 110:9 KJV and it is not ascribed to man. The Catholics are responsible for first ascribing this to man. And Psalms 110:9 is where they got it from, they even put the word (right) in front of it. The Right Reverend like they are as high as God or something. And I am not trying to turn this into a Catholic debate, I am burned out on those on this board.

 

[Adullam]

We have one Master and the rest of us are brethren.

 

[Lewis]

My pastor won't let you call him reverend.

 

[follower of Christ]

What I think is that its made into way too big a deal. I just call him by his first name.

 

[JoJo]

The Southern Baptists probably sum it up best when they call their ministers, "Brother!"

 

[mutzrein]

I call the pastor of the church I go to by his 'christian' :gah name.

 

[Captain Sarcastic]

I just call the man "Pastor." :shades

 

[Ret]

I believe understanding is with scripture as far as church authority is concerned...

Matt 23:8 ... all ye are brethren. KJV

 

[Lewis]

Ok here is what I am saying, because I don't think you all are getting it. Here it is in the Bible, KJV.

Psalm 111:9
9He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

Now reading that should a man be called reverend ? I was not asking what you all call your pastors, I was asking does a man or a pastor have the right to be called reverend, after reading Psalm 111:9, and that word reverend is only in that one verse, in the entire Bible.

 

[dadof10]

We don't worship the man, we worship the position!! :gah Besides the bible does not forbid us to call a man reverend...just rabbi, master, or father. Those clever clergy-ists! ;)

The Bible does not forbid us to call "a man" rabbi, master or father. In the verse you are referring to (Matt. 23:8) Jesus is using hyperbole to make a point, not forbidding us to use these common words as titles.

"For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me. (1Corinthians (RSV) 4)

Is Paul sinning here?

And Stephen said: "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran, 3 and said to him, `Depart from your land and from your kindred and go into the land which I will show you.' (Acts (RSV) 7)

Is Stephen here?

There is a whole thread on this subject here in case you're interested.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=35169

 

[Lewis]

Psalms 111:9 is calling God reverend,so what are you saying ? God is in reverence to no one. How can man call himself that when the word was reserved for God alone ? You all read the verse and you still don't get it. I am not calling anyone stupid here, I am just saying you just don't get it. And I am not bashing here, but the Catholics were the first to ascribe this word to man. And then they added the word Right in front of Reverend hence, The Right Reverend, this is really saying that man has the rights of God, like being able to forgive sins. So in some cases, yes titles can be important.

 

[dadof10]

Psalms 111:9 is calling God reverend,so what are you saying ? God is in reverence to no one. How can man call himself that when the word was reserved for God alone ?

The word is an adjective describing the word "name". The sentence could be rewritten "God has a holy name and a reverend (fearful, honorable, respectful) name"

You all read the verse and you still don't get it. I am not calling anyone stupid here, I am just saying you just don't get it.

i think it's you that are misreading the verse. Please read it again.

And I am not bashing here, but the Catholics were the first to ascribe this word to man. And then they added the word Right in front of Reverend hence, The Right Reverend, this is really saying that man has the rights of God, like being able to forgive sins.

Oohhh...Those evil Catholics. It's the Davinci Code all over again!!!

So in some cases, yes titles can be important.

Is it your opinion that the word "holy" is also "reserved for God alone"? If so, here are some verses for you to consider.

"If any one destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and that temple you are." (1Corinthians (RSV) 3)

"For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is they are holy." (1Corinthians (RSV) 7)

"All the brethren send greetings. Greet one another with a holy kiss." (1Corinthians (RSV) 16)

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." (1Peter (RSV) 2)

"So once the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves and were submissive to their husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord." (1Peter (RSV) 3)

There are many more, but this should suffice to prove that neither word is being "reserved for God alone", and it's perfectly acceptable to ascribe either word to someone, or even something, worthy of the description. After all, both words are being used as ADJECTIVES in Ps. 111, not as proper names for God.

 

[Lewis]

It is millions that will not call a man reverend because of Psalm 111:9. Does not the verse say reverend is His name ? So what are you talking about ? We are to take the Bible at it's literal Word. And I am no longer a Catholic basher, for about 2 years on this forum I did that, I just don't do it anymore. But I will speak the truth, and if Catholics or Buddist are in it, I will not hold back. But I will not bash you.

 

[Gabe]

Lewis, you may be interested in this thread, Tomlane managed to keep it alive for six pages:

Is "Reverend" an Appropriate title for a Man?

 

[francisdesales]

It is millions that will not call a man reverend because of Psalm 111:9. Does not the verse say reverend is His name ? So what are you talking about ? We are to take the Bible at it's literal Word. And I am no longer a Catholic basher, for about 2 years on this forum I did that, I just don't do it anymore. But I will speak the truth, and if Catholics or Buddist are in it, I will not hold back. But I will not bash you.

I guess I don't get around much, I have not heard someone called "Reverend". We call our parish priests "Father".

In defense of the useage, I would say that the meaning of the word, not the word itself, is what is important. Words change in meaning over many years. Take the word "worship". Today, it carries different connotations then it once did. The Psalmist clearly meant something different than what the title "Reverend" means today. I do not think someone calling a bishop or whatever thinks in his mind that he is addressing God Himself, nor is it the intent to get people to think the bishop is God.

Those are my thoughts on the subject - and Lewis, we are grateful that you have stopped bashing us! Don't stop asking thoughtful questions.

Regards

 

[Adullam]

There is a difference between considering one as your spiritual father in the faith...and having father as a title. Officious titles are for pharisees only! That is what Jesus was saying. :yes

 

[Lewis]

Lewis, you may be interested in this thread, Tomlane managed to keep it alive for six pages:

Is "Reverend" an Appropriate title for a Man?

Hey thanks for that, it is some good stuff in there. But this could end now, because I said what I had to say and I will stand by it.

 

[Cornelius]

We don't worship the man, we worship the position!! :gah Besides the bible does not forbid us to call a man reverend...just rabbi, master, or father. Those clever clergy-ists! ;)

The Bible does not forbid us to call "a man" rabbi, master or father. In the verse you are referring to (Matt. 23:8) Jesus is using hyperbole to make a point, not forbidding us to use these common words as titles.

"For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me. (1Corinthians (RSV) 4)

Is Paul sinning here?

And Stephen said: "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran, 3 and said to him, `Depart from your land and from your kindred and go into the land which I will show you.' (Acts (RSV) 7)

Is Stephen here?

There is a whole thread on this subject here in case you're interested.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=35169

The word "father" is not ever used to call somebody that. Even in these scriptures you are quoting it is pointing to the fact that the person ("father" ) is the one in who's footsteps we follow. Jesus is the "Eternal Father" , because that is what He is: He "fathers" eternal life in us.

Abraham's children are only those who live by faith. He is not my father and I do not call him my father, but he is the father of the way I walk.

Jesus used this same manner to describe the Jews that followed the ways of the devil.Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.

He definitely did not mean they must call the devil "father" now, did He ? No of course not. The same way we are also not to call a man father.


Tit 1:4 to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour. Again, Paul is using the same way to be a "father" here. "After a common faith" He is simply acknowledging the fact that Titus is walking as he (Paul) is walking.The same with Timothy : 2Ti 1:2 to Timothy, my beloved child: and so forth in all the cases mentioned we can see its not a title to be called, but it only shows forth those who follow in the footsteps (manner ) of another.