Bible Study Dont Think Or Believe Beyond What Is Written(Verses)

[Squeakybro]

Beyond What Is Written

Paul warned us not to even think beyond what is written down.Do you know why? Because once you get outside of what is written in the bible you open yourself up to satans deceptions.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Col 2:8
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
2 Cor 11:14-15
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
(NKJ)

We are suppose to believe in Jesus "As The Scripture Has Said", not as man has said. And not as the devil has said.

John 7:38
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

 

[cyberjosh]

Then don't believe beyond this:

"...while we wait for the blessed hopeâ€â€the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13)


"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours." (2 Peter 1:1)

I dare you to refute the Granville Sharp rule.

 

[Squeakybro]

God was in Christ, but Christ wasnt God. If He was He didnt need God to be in Him.
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)


John 14:10
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
(NKJ)


Dont you know when God left Jesus??????

Matt 27:46
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
(NKJ)

 

[cyberjosh]

Yeah the Father was in Christ, and Christ was also in the Father (as we've already covered in another thread). The NT commonly uses the term theos to refer to God the Father so if you try to make a distinction all you accomplish is showing that Jesus and the Father were seperate persons of the trinity but though they are equally God.

And I was right, you can't refute the Granville Sharp rule.

Dont you know when God left Jesus??????

No, let me go ask my Gnostic brethren over here and get the answer. I'll be right back....

 

[MrVersatile48]

I must again apologise for having a migraine that makes it very hard to think right now

What God is reminding me, very forcefully, is that Jesus said, "I & the Father are one" - John 10:30 - & "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" - John 14 - when He was asked, "Lord, show us the Father" & said, "Have I been with you so long & yet you do not know Me?"

John 1, Colossians 1 & Hebrews 1 are crystal clear that Jesus is the Almighty Creator in human form

The Spirit of God is also called the Spirit of Christ

David Pawson - on http://www.God.TV doing a series of talks on "The Challenge of Islam" - which I'm sure can be accessed on archive there - reminded us today that John 20 said that, 'if all the things Jesus said & did were written down, the world could not contain all the books that could be written, but these that are written are so you can believe & have eternal life'

Time & again, in the 'Sermon on the Mount' - Matt 5-7 - Jesus clearly expressed expectation that folk should read between the lines: that because God's law says murder is wrong, we should know that hate is wrong, & because God's law says adultery & fornication are wrong, we should know that encouraging lust is wrong

Proverbs 1 - 'get wisdom, get understanding' - etc shows that God's will was not to spell out every conceivable detail in the Bible, but to draw us into close relationship with Him, so that we are sensitive to His heart & mind, as the Spirit of God is the Spirit of wisdom - as in Proverbs 8

Reinhard Bonnke, in his recent Belfast mission, shown last night, shared the story of a young man who once said to him, "Preacher, I don't like your book: it's 2000 years old & I'm only 17 & want to live in the now, not by an ancient, dusty book"

Bonnke said, "The sun is even older than the Bible, but it still does its job: the Bible is the eternal Word of God: it will always accomplish the purpose for which He sent it, just as the rain & snow do"

Hope that helps!

Ian

 

[Squeakybro]

Yeah the Father was in Christ, and Christ was also in the Father (as we've already covered in another thread). The NT commonly uses the term theos to refer to God the Father so if you try to make a distinction all you accomplish is showing that Jesus and the Father were seperate persons of the trinity but though they are equally God.

And I was right, you can't refute the Granville Sharp rule.




No, let me go ask my Gnostic brethren over here and get the answer. I'll be right back....

I said
I did refute it. Why didnt Jesus say "MY self, My self, why have I forsaken me. Because He wasnt God. It says the head of Christ is God. Not along side. And Jesus Himself said the only true God is the Father. Do you have trouble with comprehension????

Matt 27:46
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
(NKJ)

1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
(NKJ)

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeakybro]

MrVersatile48
THE 'ARE ONE' DELUSION
WE ARE ONE WITH CHRIST AND GOD AND HOLY SPIRIT
IF JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE OF THE ONENESS-THEN WE ARE GOD. NOT SO!
John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
1 Cor 12:12-14
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
1 Cor 10:16-17
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.
1 Cor 3:7-11
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Rom 12:5
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
John 17:20-23
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 10:29-30
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 "I and My Father are one."
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 6:17
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Matt 10:32-33
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
1 Cor 11:1
1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Rom 16:25-27
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Phil 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
2 Cor 4:13-14
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," we also believe and therefore speak,
14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.
(NKJ)
xxOneness is all about agreement. John 17-22 Jesus prayed that we may be one the same way that Jesus and God are one. Jesus submitted to every Word of God that shows His agreement. We are to submit to every Word of God to show our agreement.
Jesus prayed John 17-22 that we "are one" with Jesus and God the Father. And that doesnt make us God any more than it made Jesus God to be one with God.

 

[cyberjosh]

I did refute it.

Not those two verses I quoted, you didn't. If you can't refute those then we have a contradiction on our hands.

Why didnt Jesus say "MY self, My self, why have I forsaken me. Because He wasnt God. It says the head of Christ is God. Not along side. And Jesus Himself said the only true God is the Father. Do you have trouble with comprehension????

No the distinction is that he wasn't the Father (not that he wasn't God), because he was the Son. If you want me to give you some sort of admittance the closest you will get me from a Biblical standpoint is that, "Yes, Jesus became a little lower than the angels, thus lower than God the Father, but never did he surrender his essential nature as God though he humbled himself and set aside his glory (until we get a brief glimpse of it again at the Transfiguration)." But Jesus is never diminished in his essence as God. But he did subject himself in terms of authority temporarily to humble himself to become a man. That's about as far as you'll ever get me.

P.S. It's kind of wierd that we are having this conversation in three threads but I also have other points that I think are worth thinking over IMO in the other two threads. Let's consider those also.

~Josh

 

[Squeakybro]

No the distinction is that he wasn't the Father (not that he wasn't God), because he was the Son. If you want me to give you some sort of admittance the closest you will get me from a Biblical standpoint is that, "Yes, Jesus became a little lower than the angels, thus lower than God the Father, but never did he surrender his essential nature as God though he humbled himself and set aside his glory (until we get a brief glimpse of it again at the Transfiguration)." But Jesus is never diminished in his essence as God. But he did subject himself in terms of authority temporarily to humble himself to become a man. That's about as far as you'll ever get me.

P.S. It's kind of wierd that we are having this conversation in three threads but I also have other points that I think are worth thinking over IMO in the other two threads. Let's consider those also.

~Josh

I said
That is an oxymoron. The divine nature that you speak of was not only in Jesus but also in us if God works through us the same way He worked through Jesus. And it doesnt make us God either.
Divine Nature

Acts 17:29
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
(NKJ)
2 Pet 1:4
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(NKJ)
2 Pet 1:2-3
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,

2 Cor 5:18-19
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)


xxxDivine nature is so misunderstood. The deceived think that the divinity or deity or divine nature that Jesus had was what made Him God and it didnt. First because we can have the same divine nature and we're not God. Second because divine nature just means God is working through us.

 

[cyberjosh]

I will attempt to reasonably answer your points:

That is an oxymoron. The divine nature that you speak of was not only in Jesus but also in us if God works through us the same way He worked through Jesus. And it doesnt make us God either.

Ok, but here's the important question: to what degree did Jesus have God's nature in him?

We have but a measure of the Spirit's activity in us that God deems to give to us. We recieve the whole Holy Spirit but its effective working in us up to a measure. If the Holy Spirit's working in us was 100% we would infact loose free will (a rather impossible scenario) and be nothing but God's emmissary or puppet.

2 Corinthians 10:13 says, "But we will not boast beyond our measure, but within the measure of the sphere which God apportioned to us as a measure, to reach even as far as you."

Ephesians 4:7 says, "But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift."

But to Christ:

"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. " (John 3:34-35)

Jesus had the Spirit working without measure in Him, 100%, but he wasn't a puppet. Do you know why? Because he was one with the Spirit & the Father (being God) and made His own decisions! And also notice the intimate Father/Son picture given here. Notice that though we are called sons of God that is it only a reality through Jesus. Jesus is the only one who shares God's nature directly, but we are adopted. That why Gentiles can also be grafted into the vine of those decended from Abraham spiritually. But Jesus is the true and original vine.

"For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, 'Abba! Father!' " (Romans 8:15)

"And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. " (Romans 8:23)

Without Christ and his sacrifice it would be impossible to be adopted, so you cannot make such a simple comparison saying that Jesus had the Spirit of God just like the rest of us do. He infact had a special relationship with God the Father, sharing in his essence with Him, by which he was able to be a perfect substitute for our sins. Other wise God could have used any sinner and put his Spirit in him to do the same thing. Jesus is not like us my friend.

 

[cyberjosh]

Please, PLEASE, do not ignore that post I gave above. I would be much indebted to you if you could answer me point for point on that, quoting Scriptures as you go. But please quote each portion of my post so I know which section of my post you are addressing specifically.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Squeakybro]

you said

Ok, but here's the important question: to what degree did Jesus have God's nature in him?

We have but a measure of the Spirit's activity in us that God deems to give to us. We recieve the whole Holy Spirit but its effective working in us up to a measure. If the Holy Spirit's working in us was 100% we would infact loose free will (a rather impossible scenario) and be nothing but God's emmissary or puppet.

2 Corinthians 10:13 says, "But we will not boast beyond our measure, but within the measure of the sphere which God apportioned to us as a measure, to reach even as far as you."

Ephesians 4:7 says, "But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift."

But to Christ:

"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. " (John 3:34-35)

Jesus had the Spirit working without measure in Him, 100%, but he wasn't a puppet. Do you know why? Because he was one with the Spirit & the Father (being God) and made His own decisions! And also notice the intimate Father/Son picture given here. Notice that though we are called sons of God that is it only a reality through Jesus. Jesus is the only one who shares God's nature directly, but we are adopted. That why Gentiles can also be grafted into the vine of those decended from Abraham spiritually. But Jesus is the true and original vine.

"For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, 'Abba! Father!' " (Romans 8:15)

"And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. " (Romans 8:23)

Without Christ and his sacrifice it would be impossible to be adopted, so you cannot make such a simple comparison saying that Jesus had the Spirit of God just like the rest of us do. He infact had a special relationship with God the Father, sharing in his essence with Him, by which he was able to be a perfect substitute for our sins. Other wise God could have used any sinner and put his Spirit in him to do the same thing. Jesus is not like us my friend.

I said
The gifts of the Spirit come in the milk. And the measure you talking about is in which gift one receives. Its not up to man on which gift he receives that is up to the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 12:4-11
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
(NKJ)

Then one has a chance to enter into the meat understanding. If one follows every verse that enters their mind from the Holy Spirit He will lead them into the kingdom of God

Luke 17:20-21
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
21 "nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
(NKJ)

That is where they will bring everythought in their minds to the obedience of Jesus(new testament). And crucify their flesh with all its emotions and feelings.

2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
(NKJ)

Gal 5:24-25
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
(NKJ)

And when one can do that they will loose their free will and be slaves to Jesus and the new testament.

1 Cor 7:22
22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave.
(NKJ)

and we can have the same relationship with God that Jesus had. IF?IF we submit the way He did.

Matt 20:22-23
22 But Jesus answered and said, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They said to Him, "We are able."
23 So He said to them, "You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father."
(NKJ)

 

[cyberjosh]

and we can have the same relationship with God that Jesus had. IF?IF we submit the way He did.

So you are saying that once we move into the "meat" that we too can have the Spirit without measure as Jesus did? If so show me the verse.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Now what about my point of us being God's sons only through Jesus. And that Jesus will be the only one who is ever directly connected (since we are only adopted) and in God the Father, because they are one?

Could you respond to those points as well?

 

[Squeakybro]

you said

and we can have the same relationship with God that Jesus had. IF?IF we submit the way He did.


So you are saying that once we move into the "meat" that we too can have the Spirit without measure as Jesus did? If so show me the verse.

I said
No I didnt. But your arguement does favor yourself when you exaggerate what others say. I posted revelations on the milk and the meat, but someone hid them. You should go look them up. One has to go through the milk and the meat to come to the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of. And no one receives the Spirit by measure.

John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
(NKJ)

You either have Him or you dont. You learn from Him by measure but you dont receive only a measure of Him.