Don't you think its funny.

[BATMAN]

okay, if there is no evidence of a plane crash, what's the explanation for the missing plane and people? One of which was Barbara Olson, the Solicitor General's wife.

 

[peace4all]

okay, if there is no evidence of a plane crash, what's the explanation for the missing plane and people? One of which was Barbara Olson, the Solicitor General's wife.

the same as the plot during the keneddy administration where they would claim to have a plane of college students shot down over cuba, so they could provoke war, while actually, they would basically kindap and imprison them.... GOod thing JFK didnt agree with that plan...

artguy.. The insurance and put options were placed 6-10 days BEFORE the attacks...


the plane was a Gulfstream G-1159A weight, 62,500 roughly...

I just theorize that if 1.. 1 lightpost.. could take that down.. easily.. then 7 lightposts, with an inexperienced pilot, could take the 757 down


Not just that, But if the 757 was close enough to knock down light posts, on the highway there, then.. I mean, dont u think any of the cars, might have done this?
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_ ... ane_Blows/

(plz disregard the name of the site, I couldnt find the other one that hosts it, But it is an educational video, that was taken off of VHS I believe, and stuck on the web)

 

[ArtGuy]

the same as the plot during the keneddy administration where they would claim to have a plane of college students shot down over cuba, so they could provoke war, while actually, they would basically kindap and imprison them.... GOod thing JFK didnt agree with that plan...

Ah, so the government kidnapped a planeful of people, secretly disposed of the plane, and then plowed it into the Pentagon? Wouldn't it have been easier to just hire someone to hijack the plane and fly it in there?

When you have to come up with half a dozen implausible theories to support another implausible theory, it's usually a sign that your original theory is wrong. But if you would like to believe that the government is smart enough to pull this off and get away with it, but stupid enough to do it in the most roundabout and inefficient way possible, all so that the federal government can commit insurance fraud, then by all means.

I would also recommend you get rid of your fillings - I mean, you know the government can listen in with them, right? The ADA is actually a front for domestic spying. That's why they put the flouride in water - it makes your teeth decay more, which allows the dentists to plant more bugs in your mouth. I know this because an elite anti-government organization told me all this through my toaster oven one day.

artguy.. The insurance and put options were placed 6-10 days BEFORE the attacks...

Assuming this is accurate, so? The combined property damage for all of 9/11 was $18B. Assuming the Pentagon accounted for a quarter of this - which is extremely generous - the government netted $4.5B. Why would they commit such massive fraud and kill so many people for a pretty tiny amount of money, as compared to the total federal budget? Why not just earmark an extra $4.5B and add that to the deficit? Your motive makes no sense.

the plane was a Gulfstream G-1159A weight, 62,500 roughly...

I just theorize that if 1.. 1 lightpost.. could take that down.. easily.. then 7 lightposts, with an inexperienced pilot, could take the 757 down

So it weighed roughly a third as much as the 757. How fast was it going at the time of the collision? And what makes you think that the plane being taken down by a single light post is standard, rather than the exception? Perhaps that pilot was simply unlucky.

Not just that, But if the 757 was close enough to knock down light posts, on the highway there, then.. I mean, dont u think any of the cars, might have done this?
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_ ... ane_Blows/

Maybe, maybe not. Given that they didn't, I would side with "not".

At any rate, if the plane didn't knock them down, what did? Did the government hire goons to go break a bunch of light posts to make it look like a plane had come through? Is this Sub-Conspiracy 32A, now?

 

[peace4all]

look at them. The light posts, instead of beign ripped in half or anything, are just perfectly unbolted out of the ground. They just look liek someone really tall pulled them straight up and knocked them over...

the US government, did it so they would have a legitimate reson to go to war with iraq/afghanistan/anywhere...
the put options, stocks etc, were ways of getting people to stay shut up... I mean, with billions of dollars, they can keep alot shut up.

also what about the teams that cleaned up, that found a truck, laden with gold, in the tunnel under the buildings? I mean.....


The whole government story has changed hundreds of times, and continues to change...

I mean, the whole plane is instantly vaporized in the pentagon, yet, the metal disapears, but the ability to identify people through DNA lives on?
at the towers, they apparently find one of the hijackers passports. PAPER! yet they dont find the plane, the black boxes (although some were claimed to have been found) I mean, that plane that "vaporized" allowed a PASSPORT to escape?! honestly now...

There is soo much that doesnt go right.. Like all the explosions you see down the building seconds before it collapses. the fact that you can tell their are explosions, because cameras on tripods shake, seconds before the fall..

And I mean.. Building 5 was onyl the 3rd large skyscraper liek building to ever to totall collapse due to fire..

The towers were the first 2....

scientists aroudn the globe, people that made the steal it is constructed of, everyone says, it shouldn't have fallen down.

Why were the bomb sniffing dogs removed days before the attacks?
whats with teh mock wargames played on that day?
why were important officials told NOT to fly that day?
why does the report say people called from cellphones, yet studies have concluded that its 1% chance to have a cell call work from altitudes of that nature.. Specially over rural pennsylvania!
Why were there sitings of mysterious planes around that flight?
Why was there NO wreckage for that one either?
Soo many questions that movie asks, that the government cant explain.

If they just would release the 2 videos.. they could be in the clear..

 

[Vic C.]

gundam....

It wasnt under clinton, when the toweres were bombed..

Yes it was.

There are far too many non believers here putting down Christianity. I think THAT'S a conspiracy and something's got to be done about it.

Who wants to go first? :-?

 

[ArtGuy]

look at them. The light posts, instead of beign ripped in half or anything, are just perfectly unbolted out of the ground. They just look liek someone really tall pulled them straight up and knocked them over...

When a structure fails, it fails at its weakest point, or at the point of maximum stress. Hitting the top of a light post would place the greatest stress load at the base, and so the base would take the brunt of the damage. Now, what do we see down at the base that is really weak? The bolts holding it in place. They would snap like toothpicks, at which point the lightpost would react as if it was just standing straight up and was knocked down.

In other words, the lightposts behaved exactly as if a 757 smashed into the tops of them.

the US government, did it so they would have a legitimate reson to go to war with iraq/afghanistan/anywhere...
the put options, stocks etc, were ways of getting people to stay shut up... I mean, with billions of dollars, they can keep alot shut up.

You don't think that the planes striking the towers were sufficient causus belli? First you say that the Pentagon was blown up to collect the insurance money, now you claim that it was to goad us to war. And you accuse the government of changing its story?

also what about the teams that cleaned up, that found a truck, laden with gold, in the tunnel under the buildings? I mean.....

What about them? Assuming this isn't just another story you made up, what's the significance of the gold? Did the government do this whole thing as a glorified bank heist, now?

I mean, the whole plane is instantly vaporized in the pentagon, yet, the metal disapears, but the ability to identify people through DNA lives on?

The metal didn't disappear. There were several chunks left about, as is apparent from the pictures we keep bickering over. If there were chunks of plane, there would be chunks of people. It only takes a few cells to get DNA.

at the towers, they apparently find one of the hijackers passports. PAPER! yet they dont find the plane, the black boxes (although some were claimed to have been found) I mean, that plane that "vaporized" allowed a PASSPORT to escape?! honestly now...

Indeed. If the government were rigging the whole show, why would they be so foolish as to stick a passport in there? Again, you're painting the portrait of a government smart enough to orchestrate this grand conspiracy, but stupid enough to leave so many signs of their subterfuge. I really am finding it hard to believe that you actually believe this. Are you just playing around?

And I mean.. Building 5 was onyl the 3rd large skyscraper liek building to ever to totall collapse due to fire..

The towers were the first 2....

Read the accounts of how they failed. The didn't collapse due to a fire. They collapses because the intense heat from the explosion of a giant plane loaded with jet fuel melted the central beams in the tower. This isn't exactly shocking.

scientists aroudn the globe, people that made the steal it is constructed of, everyone says, it shouldn't have fallen down.

Yes, a small handful of conspiracy-minded fellows from around the globe have expressed their surprise. The vast majority of sane people, though, don't find a problem with the account of the buildings' collapse.

Why were the bomb sniffing dogs removed days before the attacks?
whats with teh mock wargames played on that day?
why were important officials told NOT to fly that day?
why does the report say people called from cellphones, yet studies have concluded that its 1% chance to have a cell call work from altitudes of that nature.. Specially over rural pennsylvania!
Why were there sitings of mysterious planes around that flight?
Why was there NO wreckage for that one either?
Soo many questions that movie asks, that the government cant explain.

Man, what? The Wiki link addresses most of these questions. Basically, this is how these theories work:

1) Ranting person A makes a ridiculous claim.
2) Sane person B calmly explains why that claim isn't valid.
3) Ranting person A completely ignores the explanation, and makes a different claim.
4) B explains away that claim, as well.
5) A throws out a dozen questions all at once, and claims there are no answers.
6) B starts trying to explain how A is wildly wrong.
7) Midway through, A goes back to the original claim that B already debunked, claiming that there's never been any attempt to answer it.
8) B realizes that A is irrevocably insane, and gives up.

We seem to currently be at 5. I don't have the stamina to make it all the way to 8, so I will simply reiterate my point that I've posted a link that refutes all but the most random of your claims, and bid you good day.

 

[BATMAN]

Soo many questions that movie asks, that the government cant explain.

What is it about that statement that I just can't quite put my finger on?

Oh! the word movie :o

 

[peace4all]

Soo many questions that movie asks, that the government cant explain.

What is it about that statement that I just can't quite put my finger on?

Oh! the word movie :o

Ya, I gues its better as a documentary.

But then again, the passion of the Christ was a movie too, so you shouldn't believe any of that right? ;-)

Vic, and gundam, I am sorry, I feel pretty stupid about that accident about the bombing at the towers in clintons terms... that was just a brain fart...

Now to begin to answer parts of artguy.

hit a lightpost with a plane, Yes, it should coem out of the ground. Why it wasnt bent in half, cut in half, or anything else, Is beyond me.

The OFFICIAL report, of the pentagon, says that there is no debris, because the plane was VAPORIZED upon impact... (odd how the mass of the plane, the wings, the engines, are totally vaporised, but some hand holdable, lightweight pieces of stuff, are found.. and not very much...)

As I said with the money. The government wanted to go to war with Iraq/afghanistan/anything. GW wanted back at Iraq, I mean, didnt you read about all of the relseases how after 9/11 he said "find some way to pin this to iraq" and how they were planning iraq, BEFORE afghanistan? The money is just for those that are also greedy and wanted in on it.

Building 5, collapsed, due to a fire. No plane hit building 5.

Planes have crashed into buildings before, and never fallen. a b52 bomber flew into the empire state building! and it didnt collapse.. Now.... I mean, the empire state building, built longer ago, a weaker building, withstands a direct b52 bomber hit, Yet, 2 buildings, built to withstand hurricanes, and even planes, fall? within a few short hours of the planes hitting?

read the government reports, it says there was a truck, laden with gold, with an escort of cars, abandoned... doors open and everything.

How else is the government going to pin this on al qaeda if they dont stuff SOME evidence in right? I mean, what evidence is there.

Cell calls that have a 1% chance of working, where they have NOT been released to the public (the one small clip released to the public, sure didnt sound like someone on a hijaked plane.. no background cryign screaming yelling anything...)

the Pasport? I mean, wtf, the planes black boxes, were "vaporized" and the passport survived? Why the gov't did this? I dont have a clue, They figure they can get away with it, and that people wont notice these things...

Ohh yes! the video where binladen, who is writing with the WRONG hand, who is wearing a gold ring (forbidden by islamic law) a wristwatch (also forbidden) sounds very little like bin laden and.. what is this?

I mean, what the heck. The tape, gives specific names of the terrorists that died in the crash, yet..... the FBI says that they were using fake names, they wernt who they said they were, BECAUSE THE TERRORISTS HAVE BEEN FOUND ALIVE!

why for some of the video, is usama NOT wearing the ring, and in others the ring is mysteriously added?

doesn't look to great to me.

 

[ArtGuy]

hit a lightpost with a plane, Yes, it should coem out of the ground. Why it wasnt bent in half, cut in half, or anything else, Is beyond me.

Thank you for illustrating why I stopped bothering to discuss this with you. I explained pretty clearly why you wouldn't expect any serious bending, and you ignored me. But tell you what, if you want to perform an experiment to illustrate this principle, do the following:

Get a long cardboard tube, like the kind used for wrapping paper. Place it on a hardwood floor. Use scotch tape to affix it to the floor. I'd say about four pieces, with about an inch on each piece actually touching the floor. Now, use your hand and smack the very top of the tube as hard as you can. See what happens.

I know you won't bother trying this, because it would lend credibility to the idea that the lightpoles were hit by planes, and you don't want to jeopardize the story you've already decided to blindly adhere to. But anyone else who wants to try this, have fun.

 

[peace4all]

The Gulfstream III jet, descending in heavy fog, clipped a light pole and slammed into a field south of downtown ... Authorities said the Gulfstream III was 1½ miles from the runway when it hit a light pole on Beltway 8, a toll road that encircles the outskirts of the city. Part of the jet's wing was sheared off by the impact; the pole was bent in half.
(Lianne Hart "Jet Bound for Bush's Father Crashes," Los Angeles Times, November 23, 2004)

The last time a plane hit a light post, it bent it in half and was heavily recorded, it bent the lightpost.

 

[ArtGuy]

The Gulfstream III jet, descending in heavy fog, clipped a light pole and slammed into a field south of downtown ... Authorities said the Gulfstream III was 1½ miles from the runway when it hit a light pole on Beltway 8, a toll road that encircles the outskirts of the city. Part of the jet's wing was sheared off by the impact; the pole was bent in half.
(Lianne Hart "Jet Bound for Bush's Father Crashes," Los Angeles Times, November 23, 2004)

The last time a plane hit a light post, it bent it in half and was heavily recorded, it bent the lightpost.

Where did it impact the light post? What was the specific impulse of the the resultant force? Was it the same kind of light post? Was it attached to the ground in the same way?

More importantly, are there any witnesses who reported seeing black-clad men hastily unscrewing 7 light posts and tipping them over? Because, you know, that would have been somewhat conspicuous.

Actually, most importantly, why am I bothering with this?

 

[Geo]

P.S. Barbara Olson -- she got arrested last year trying to cross an
European border. I didn't save the 3 news article urls that reported that,
maybe you're fit enough to locate it yourself, if you REALLY want to know.

P.S. satellite photo of Pentagon. I wasn't talking about small size photos
that don't tell anything, FULL monitor high-res view from above that shows
complete building, again it's available out there for the researcher.

And why should we bother with it at all? Tell you why:

Pat Dawson, NBC NEWS reporter: "I spoke with the Chief of Safety for the FDNY.
He received word of a secondary device, that is, another bomb going off...he said
there was another explosion which took place. And then an hour after the first hit...
there was another explosion that took place. He thinks that there were actually
devices that were placed in the building. We are continuing to hear explosions
downtown."

FOX NEWS reporter Mark Burnback, describing the second World Trade Center
impact live: "It definitely didn't look like a commercial plane. I didn't see any
windows on the side. Again, it was not a normal flight that I've ever seen at an
airport. It had a blue logo on the front, and it did not look like it belonged in the area."

 

[peace4all]

The Gulfstream III jet, descending in heavy fog, clipped a light pole and slammed into a field south of downtown ... Authorities said the Gulfstream III was 1½ miles from the runway when it hit a light pole on Beltway 8, a toll road that encircles the outskirts of the city. Part of the jet's wing was sheared off by the impact; the pole was bent in half.
(Lianne Hart "Jet Bound for Bush's Father Crashes," Los Angeles Times, November 23, 2004)

The last time a plane hit a light post, it bent it in half and was heavily recorded, it bent the lightpost.

Where did it impact the light post? What was the specific impulse of the the resultant force? Was it the same kind of light post? Was it attached to the ground in the same way?

More importantly, are there any witnesses who reported seeing black-clad men hastily unscrewing 7 light posts and tipping them over? Because, you know, that would have been somewhat conspicuous.

Actually, most importantly, why am I bothering with this?

because all of the crazy things that make no sense. are really making you think. YOur questioning your own beliefs and your country, and it scares you. at first, as tom petty said "Im gonna stand my ground, and I wont back down"

Although you do provide some good evidence, it just balances the teeter tawter.. instead of me being 100% right, there is a chance of either or, We won't know the truth till the recovered blackboxes are released, and until the 2 videos are released.

 

[protos]

Why in the world would the government bomb themselves? Do you ever use reason, or do you believe every crackpot theory out there? Yes, science shows how planes fly, and those were real planes that crashed into the towers, so whether there's reckage YOUR SITE found or not, it doesn't matter, it was still terrorists who did it.

You know what reason does? It dissolves crackpot theories. It's really neat because it's the one thing which you can do at home!

 

[Geo]

It's called dialectical process. First you create the problem,
then you step in to solve it. Wherefore before the problem existed,
nobody in their right mind would agree to the draconian solution
you propose (like stripping civil rights or dismantleing the constitution),
after the problem occured everyone willingly agrees.

A historical example: Hitler set the Reichstag (gov. building) on fire
and blamed it successfully on somone else. That's how he got
established in the world of power, and his enemies got on the 'wanted list'.
It's as simple, and effective as that.

This time it's about establishing the 'patriot act' the thing almost nobody
read before passing it. And it got enforced not only in the US, it's global
in most western nations now. Global law. Everyone can get arrested
for whatever reason and held without trial. Get it? It's the end of personal
freedom as we knew it. The result was the objective, it existed long before
the plan about how to achieve it.