Drugs/Marijuana & the Bible

[Veritas]

Sorry ZaksDarlin, I misinterpreted your first post. I went ahead and addressed the verses you posted.

And I'm with Gabby. Personally, I find my solace and relaxation in Jesus alone, and don't see a need for marijuana. Marijuana is usless to me.

Ezekiel 34:29 is about food and hunger, ZaksDarlin, you've posted the KJV, here are other versions that might be clearer for you....

(NIV) I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations.

(NASB) "I will establish for them a renowned planting place, and they will not again be victims of famine in the land, and they will not endure the insults of the nations anymore.

(Amplified Bible) And I will raise up for them a planting of crops for renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land nor bear the reproach of the nations any longer.

(CEV) I will make their fields produce large amounts of crops, so they will never again go hungry or be laughed at by foreigners.

What the word "herb" refers to has changed throughout time. At the time the KJV was written people did not refer to marijuana as "herb", that is a very recent and modern fad. Here I'll show you more...

Isaiah 18:4-5 is a figure of speech, again, the other versions...

(NIV) This is what the LORD says to me:
"I will remain quiet and will look on from my dwelling place,
like shimmering heat in the sunshine,
like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest."

(NASB)For thus the LORD has told me,
"I will look from My dwelling place quietly
Like dazzling heat in the sunshine,
Like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest."

(Amplified Bible) For thus the Lord has said to me: I will be still and I will look on from My dwelling place, like clear and glowing heat in sunshine, like a fine cloud of mist in the heat of harvest.

(CEV) The LORD said to me,
"I will calmly look down from my home above-- as calmly as the sun at noon or clouds in the heat of harvest season."

Do you see what I'm getting at ZaksDarlin? I'll only post one version for the Genesis verse for sake of brevity.

(CEV) I have provided all kinds of fruit and grain for you to eat. And I have given the green plants as food for everything else that breathes. These will be food for animals, both wild and tame, and for birds. God looked at what he had done. All of it was very good!

Gabby went into the actual Greek behind Revelation 9:20-21 and Revelation 21:8 to get a very accurate meaning of what the words really meant. We are to be fearful of "pharmakeus" and "pharmakeia" which both refer to drugs, spell-giving potions, poisoing, etc.

Feel free to go into the Hebrew and look up the words "herb" as translated by the KJV, but you'll find that they are refering to plants and food, not a drug.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

[...More can be found here: http://www.equalrights4all.org/religious/bible.htm .....

Hey Zak,

When you go to talk to your Pastor about taking communion, you might want to mention your interest in using illegal drugs, and how you think that the Bible okays it. Keep in mind that marijuana is an illegal drug.

Here is a quote that I found on your link. "...the war on marijuana is unchristian..." This is a real feeble attempt to get high and claim that God wants you that way. Buddy, you need Jesus, not marijuana.

What should the ministry do?

Teach God's truth. Warn your congregation that the war on marijuana is unchristian and must be ended.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you will be no priest to Me … for I desired mercy and not sacrifice. (Hosea 4:6, 6:6)

 

[Guest]

Not in my Bible.

In my copy of the Scriptures, Jesus went around healing people. Sometimes just by speaking the Word, sometimes by laying hands on the sick. The apostles did likewise. I never see Him command anyone to pop a pill, to smoke anything, or inject anything.

Faith works for me. It doesn't work for everybody though.

Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Gabby - are you suggesting that when needing surgery - that you will not rely on the treatment of doctors? Am I to assume that you do not go to the doctor, the dentist, or anyone else in the medical profession?

I do not mean this questions to be an accusation, rather I am just being inquizitive.

And do not be too much of a 'jerk' - there are quite a few things that Jesus did not command, yet we do it everyday - breathe, goto the bathroom, bathe, etc.

Also, Jesus did use "mud" to heal a person of blindness. (John 9)

Also, oil was used widely throughout the Old Testament and New as a form of medicine.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

aLone,

We are really stretching to justify drug abuse here, don't ya think?

 

[jgredline]

And do not be too much of a _ _ _ _ - there are quite a few things that Jesus did not command, yet we do it everyday - breathe, goto the bathroom, bathe, etc.

Please respect the TOS of this site....This comment is uncalled for....I suggest you apologize.....

 

[Guest]

aLone,

We are really stretching to justify drug abuse here, don't ya think?

I am not trying to justify anything. I do believe that hashish could be used to medicinal purposes - you seem to oppose all medicines, "illegal" drugs or 'legal' ones. Therefore, I am curious as to your position. Do you go to the dentist, or seek out medical treatment? From you posts, it would seem that you do not.

Do you drink soda? Which is filled with a chemical that does alter the mind?

It is not an attempt to justify, but an attempt to get to the truth of the matter.

If you do not wish to answer the questions, that is fine.

 

[Solo]

The use of mind-altering substances are not supported by Scripture. In fact, these substances are in conflict with Scripture. Drunkenness is not a positive action according to the Bible, and neither is being controlled by any other source than the Holy Spirit.

Marijuana, hashish, and mind-altering chemicals are supported by those who have swallowed the deceptive lie of the enemy as they were led away of their own lusts.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Do you drink soda? Which is filled with a chemical that does alter the mind?

It is not an attempt to justify, but an attempt to get to the truth of the matter.

If you do not wish to answer the questions, that is fine.

aLone,

If you read up on some of my other posts, you will find that I have mafia problems. Visiting doctors is not a good idea for anyone with problems such as that. Neither is taking drugs of any sort. I don't condemn anyone who has never had their faith forced to such decisions. I do get a bit weary of defending my faith, though.

What I am hearing from other posters on this forum is that soda pop, coffee, and clouds are mind altering, but pot should be okay. Soda pop, coffee, and gray puffy clouds do not fall under the definition of drugs.

Explain to me how it is that either everything, or nothing is a drug? Everything alters the mind. Are you saying that if coffee, soda pop and clouds are legal, then marijuana should be too? It appears to me that those who support the use of marijuana want to do so by attacking soda pop and other such things. The argument is not mature, and it lacks wisdom and reasoning.

You support the use for medical reasons? Would you allow your child to ride a school bus when Otto the driver has to take a few drags to calm his nerves before cranking it up? Would you want to be driving on the road when other drivers are under the influence of their prescribed dope?

 

[Guest]

Gabby - if I have offended you, than yes, I am sorry. And will ask for your forgiveness. However, from the tone of your earlier posts - it seemed like you were suggesting that those who used modern medicine and visited doctors were somehow not as spiritual.

That is why I started my comment by saying that I did not want to sound like a 'jerk'. But your rationale was that Jesus did not command anyone to pop a pill, to smoke anything, or inject anything. Again, that sounded like anyone who did those things were somehow transgressing against God.

I merely wanted to point out that there are things that we do everyday that Jesus has not commanded us to do, but by doing them we have not violated God.

In regards to smoking hashish or pot - please understand that when I say medicinal uses I was speaking as a prescription under Doctor's orders.

If the Bible prohibits anything that is mind-altering - as Solo suggests - than would that not include such things as asprin, tobacco, alcohol, and even caffefine? They are all substances that alter the mind in some form.

Just because the state as deemed alcohol and tobacco 'legal' doesn't mean that they should be deemed 'okay' if there is sufficient Biblical evidence to the contrary.

And yes, the caffefine in pop and coffee, does fall under the definition of "drug". How many drivers are there right now on the road that are under the influence of a sleep-aid, or even benedryl that makes your droussy?

For people in extreme pain (like glockcoma (sp?)) pot has shown to be an more effective pain killer.

Are 'prescription drugs' permitted because they are 'legal'?

Has someone who has taken an asprin or drank a soda been deceived by Satan or at the very least been carried away by their own lusts?- as it would seem Solo suggests?

Perhaps for this discussion to continue, we should clearly define some terms.

Again, if I offended, I apologize.

 

[moniker]

What I am hearing from other posters on this forum is that soda pop, coffee, and clouds are mind altering, but pot should be okay. Soda pop, coffee, and gray puffy clouds do not fall under the definition of drugs.

Pop and coffee (and my dear Earl Grey) contain caffeine. Caffeine is a drug and one that does alter your mind.

Explain to me how it is that either everything, or nothing is a drug?

Who said that?

Everything alters the mind. Are you saying that if coffee, soda pop and clouds are legal, then marijuana should be too?

No, and that's a strawman. I was pointing out the fact that calling certain drugs 'mind altering' is a disingenuous means of labelling as there is no such thing as an unaltered mind. It was in response to this post of yours:

One of the key terms here is "Mind altering". Scripture does not tell us to alter the mind, but to renew it.

Mind altering is not a key term, it is not even an appropriate label. Hallucinogen, narcotic, or opiate would be.

To the meat of your argument. I, and others, are not claiming that because caffeine is legal then THC should be legal. We are saying that to have alcohol be legal and marijuana illegal is hypocritical. I, personally, am advocating the idea that it should be made legal as recreational marijuana use harms noone and infringes upon the rights of noone but the person that consented to using the drug in the first place. It is a victimless crime and an immoral law that restricts a person's freedom for no purpose other than to promote a paternalistic government. Not only that, but the results of marijuana's illegality is more harmful to society than beneficial.

You support the use for medical reasons? Would you allow your child to ride a school bus when Otto the driver has to take a few drags to calm his nerves before cranking it up? Would you want to be driving on the road when other drivers are under the influence of their prescribed dope?

That is an even worse strawman. Who is advocating the legality of driving under the influence? Could you please point the person out to me, because I have never met anyone so foolish in my life. There are laws against driving while drunk, and yet that doesn't seem to require banning the drinking of alcohol as a felony. What is so special or different about marijuana?

 

[beehive2]

To the meat of your argument. I, and others, are not claiming that because caffeine is legal then THC should be legal. We are saying that to have alcohol be legal and marijuana illegal is hypocritical. I, personally, am advocating the idea that it should be made legal as recreational marijuana use harms noone and infringes upon the rights of noone but the person that consented to using the drug in the first place. It is a victimless crime and an immoral law that restricts a person's freedom for no purpose other than to promote a paternalistic government. Not only that, but the results of marijuana's illegality is more harmful to society than beneficial.

I have to agree with this to a degree. You never hear about anyone who smoked a bunch of marijuana and harmed anyone on the road or anywhere else; in comparison to alcohol, which makes some people violent, impairs everyone's motor skills, up to and including DUI's that ended in deaths of innocent people, and is absolutely, medically proven to be physically addictive.

Marijuana, on the other hand, is not physically addictive. It is only addictive physcologically, meaning some people think they need it, but they don't. Furthermore, there are no known side effects in people who stop smoking cold turkey, no withdrawals, there is a very small percentage of marijuana "rehabers". I'm an addiction counselor for a hypnotherapy clinic and the company has yet to see someone come through for maijuana addiction. But the "legal" drug, alcohol, is seen 100's of times a day.

Let it be known through recent studies marijuana was in fact found to promote nerve growth in the brain. In fact, if you think about it, there is more activity in the brain when under the influence, than not. So much for the false claim that marijuana useage kills brain cells. It does not.

Alcohol is by far, a more dangerous drug, and what makes it acceptable is that it is "legal" by a corrupt government. I watched my grandfather and my father suffer from alcohol. They are no longer with me. My father was taken at age 41. I have had people that I love and have loved, and those who I counsel on a daily basis, destroy their families, their work, their homes or their entire world for the sake of alcohol. It is said in the bible that "drunkeness" is forbidden. All you have to do is look at an alcoholic and you'll understand why it is. The effects of alcohol are long-term, especially when lives are destroyed.

I'm not suggesting to do either drug. I'm only interested in what others have to say and also, what God tells us to do in situations like these..

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

...Politics and Law Enforcement sometimes takes the path of least resistance. It's easier to crack down on the weed peddlers and users basically because there is less money funding the trafficking of weed.

And the big boys are a lot more dangerous and are better at hiding than the peddlers. That and sometimes the Politics and Law Enforcement are taken down in the effort....

And the beat goes on

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

The point I am going for in this passage is in the last verse. I have highlighted it in dark red.

Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 ¶ And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast [it] into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

The word sorceries in this verse is translated from pharmakeia. The defination:

1) the use or the administering of drugs
2) poisoning
3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

...for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

My question: what could the sorceries be that had the power to deceive all nations? Or rather, what is this pharmakeia that has managed to deceive
all nations.

The same word is used in Galatians 5:20, and is translated into 'witchcraft'. In this passage it is listed as one of the works of the flesh.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

If you are seriously looking for what Scripture has to say about drug use, there it is. If this is a topic that you are studying, these are the passages that you need to look at. Scripture also has a lot to say about being sober minded. There are volumes of commentaries, sermons, and books dedicated to the study of the mind, how it is a battleground for your soul.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[moniker]

And the big boys are a lot more dangerous and are better at hiding than the peddlers. That and sometimes the Politics and Law Enforcement are taken down in the effort....

And the beat goes on

They are able to hide it better because they have so much money coming in from their monopoly on more difficult to get drugs. You can grow marijuana everywhere, it's as hardy as bamboo, so the supply market is much more dispersed and has much more competition even if the drug is illicit. Opium is nowhere near as easy to produce and so it has to be shipped in leading to a bottleneck and a more monopolistic approach shrinking the suppliers and so driving up the cost to whatever they feel like. The fact that heroin is illegal is what makes it such a money maker for the drug dealers and cartels and what makes it so likely to traffic past the police. Again:

So long as large sums of money are involved  and they are bound to be if drugs are illegal  it is literally impossible to stop the traffic, or even to make a serious reduction in its scope.

If you were to stop making drugs illegal much of the harm that is associated with them would simply disappear. Have we learned nothing from prohibition?

 

[moniker]

How in the world is chemistry a form of witchcraft?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

... Have we learned nothing from prohibition?

What I learned from prohibition is that America wants its alcohol at any cost.

Even if it meant that they had to duck into a speakeasy and give their money to the bootleggers (ie: mob) a nickel and dime at a time. Even if it meant breaking the laws. And America wants it drugs today ~ at any price.

Prohibition did not work because America wanted to be drunk. Are we better off now? Ask MADD.

The way to stop the drugs, or the alcohol, or any other such activity is not to legislate against it. Not to arrest anyone caught participating. It is to change the heart of the nation. Change the heart of America for Jesus Christ so that even if it were totally legal to drink, smoke, and snort anything and any time ~ it would not be done. Not because a law said so, but because it was not wanted.

 

[moniker]

Prohibition did not work because America wanted to be drunk. Are we better off now? Ask MADD.

The aura of booze being illegal caused an increase in the amount of it consumed. People drank more during prohibition because it was prohibited. So yes, we are better off now.

 

[Solo]

http://www.ghost-stop.com/Pharmakeia_aka_Witches.html

 

[Guest]

Gabby - just to help me understand - if what you are saying is true, then shouldn't the verses you quoted mean that ALL types of 'drugs' should not be used? Such as asprin, caffefine, etc, etc?

 

[beehive2]

Gabby - just to help me understand - if what you are saying is true, then shouldn't the verses you quoted mean that ALL types of 'drugs' should not be used? Such as asprin, caffefine, etc, etc?

And let's not forget the most common type of drug used everyday, nicotine!

I would like to know your response, Gabby.

:D