GodspromisesRyes said:
amg. Well i see your point but have to say I dont agree really for a couple reasons.
Firstly If you are holding up a book only and that is what it is to you, then youa re correct you are holding a book and not Christ- However, when you believe that the bible is not only a book but is the Word of God and you believe the words of Jesus when He said: Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
We believe that the Bible is indeed inspired by God BECAUSE of the witness of the Church. As Paul told Timothy - YOU KNEW those who taught you. We come to trust that the Bible is from God based upon the Church's word. The Bible itself is not self-authenticating as the Word of God. Most of the independent books do not call itself the "Word of God". It is only the Church, the Body of believers in the Spirit, that tells us - and we believe - that the Bible is from God...
GodspromisesRyes said:
The word of God is SPIRIT and LIFE. It is not just a book to hold up if you have faith and the Spirit of God. To know the word of God- by the Spirit- and not just the letter IS to know Him. See you give an example of a buddist saying to you how can you love Jesus who you never met. But the response from you should be that you have met him! If you are His by faith, that means that You have not only met him, that YOU died with Him! YOU live with him! HE lives IN YOU, that YOU have HIS MIND, that your words are really HIS words! ( praise God!) that YOU are actually SEATED with him in heavenly places! that YOU are His living temple! that YOU are indeed HIS FLESH AND BONE! that not only have you met him, YOU are IN HIM and HE is IN YOU! that you are made ONE FLESH like a husband and wife is!
Indeed, very good. We should come to know Christ through experience. We can experience Jesus in many different ways. Those who have a sacramental system (not only Catholics) find they experience Christ through these grace-filled events, as well...
GodspromisesRyes said:
No reading of the church fathers ( so called) will give you any of that.
Reading the Church Fathers opens the meaning of the Bible to us. Is that a problem in the mind of other Christians? They are our link to our ancient past, those first Christians who walked with the Apostles... They inspire us to follow in their footsteps. Reading the Church Fathers makes the Scriptures come alive that much more as you read their holy insight to God's Word.
GodspromisesRyes said:
Would a wife need to read the writtings of other men to get to know her own husband? Of course not and WE are His wife.
So a woman never consults with those who know a man she wants to get to know????
Hmm. Been out of the dating loop for awhile, but I am sure this still continues...
GodspromisesRyes said:
wWould a man need to ask another man about his own flesh? Of course not and WE are the flesh and bone of Jesus!Come to know HIM to believe HIM, to hold His holy word above all things and realize that truly His word the whole bible is Spirit and LIFE.
God formed men into a community of love. The Bible is a history of that. It is difficult to ignore that we come to God as a community of people formed in love. Christianity is not about "me and jesus". If so, Christ never would have needed to form a Church in the first place. He could have just sent His Spirit to select few people while the rest of the world would happily live in ignorance...
GodspromisesRyes said:
The bible tells us to have the mind of Christ how do we do that except through HIS own word? The bible says to be cleansed with the washing of the water of the WORD. Do we become cleansed at reading the writtings of others or of the scriptures? Are the writtings of others good for doctrine, correction, reproof, exhortation or is the scriptures?
God's Word is not just words in a book. Jesus is the WORD HIMSELF...Thus, EVERYTHING that the Apostles taught is important. Not just what the Apostles WROTE. These apostles specifically TOLD us to follow ALL that they taught, not just their written works.
GodspromisesRyes said:
Do not seek to know Christ through others who we do not even know for sure if they knew him in flesh or spirit but seek to know Him and live IN HIM and HE IN YOU personally- powerfully. WE are to be NEW CREATIONS born again from heaven! no longer mere men.
New creations are found in many Christian communities, to include the "Roman" Catholic Church....
People seek out the "Roman" Catholic Church NOT to find Jesus (ONLY) but to find "fullness of the truth". Jesus can be found outside the visible walls of a Catholic community. "Lutheran" has already met Jesus! MANY Christians who come to us already KNOW Christ!!! Jesus is found within His Catholic Church - which includes EVERYONE baptized in the Trinity. If you are baptized in the name of the Trinity and in water, you are already Catholic, (not "Roman", but still Catholic) since there is only one Church as there is only one Christ...
To find the fullness of truth (which God desires that we know, according to Paul), people seek out the visible pillar and foundation of it, found in the visible "Roman" Catholic Church. People don't become Catholics in a Roman Catholic Church because they cannot be saved in their own community (they are already "catholic"), but because they seek out the fullness of Truth.
No doubt you will disagree that the "Roman" Catholic Church is the fullness of the Truth, but that is what people come to believe about her. We trust her word that the Bible is from God AND that God continues to keep His Church in existence, continuing to call men to Himself through that VISIBLE Catholic Church. The "ROMAN" Catholic Church is the fullness of that manifestation of the Catholic Church, which by your baptism (I am presuming you were baptized), you are already part of...
For example, we don't "rebaptize" Mr. Lutheran. He is already part of the Church. Please reflect on that mindset - that we don't baptize again.... Baptism is the door into the Church - so what does that tell you about how WE look upon our separated brothers???
You are still our brothers, still Catholic... But some recognize that God doesn't WANT us to be separated brothers, so they return - and thus, this is why we say :
Welcome home, Lutheran...
Regards
