Eventide,
Doesn't it follow - if I felt this topic had run its course, why would you expect me to address an already discussed point? I guess we're simply rephrasing the replies each of us have already posted earlier.
You've already discussed everything in the OP.. ? You also mentioned that my conclusions are 'amiss'.. although I don't see that pointed out anywhere..
Are you familiar with how a mercy petition works in the legal system? Would you consider the criminal who is granted mercy as someone inherently special? Again, this was the question we ended at - when we discussed this earlier
here.
We're not talking about our legal system.. we're talking about eternal life for those who God enables to believe, and eternal damnation for those who do not believe, and who could not believe, because in your pov, God didn't allow it, and yet condemns them for their unbelief.
We've gone through this earlier in post#354
here through to post#368.... 'after we believe, we are sealed' - does not imply the Spirit does not begin His work in us before we believe. Sealing is an act of conclusion, not introduction.
Well of course the GOSPEL is spiritual revelation.. for His words are Spirit and they are life.. and obviously the Holy Spirit has been sent into the world to convince the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.. couple this with the biblical fact that He is that true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world..
Although that doesn't mandate that He makes men believe it.. that's what we must do according to the word of God.. and that's when our faith in Christ is sealed.. AFTER we believe.. it's a biblical fact. It was the same with Abraham in that he was given the seal of faith (circumcision) for the faith that he HAD before he was circumcized.
Evidential conditions to check our fruit and not be deceived by sin. Don't you see the difference between evidential conditions and causative conditions? Causative conditions form the law of works and is not of faith nor grace. Evidential conditions are revelations of God's ways - which He Himself fulfills by His grace, giving us the faith to rest upon His works alone. Since evidential conditions are fulfilled by grace, we who are dependent upon God are not required to meet any criteria to receive God's grace - for grace by definition is unmerited. In that sense, we receive freely without meeting any conditions causatively. Why we receive freely of His grace is explained by unconditional election - where no criteria is required of us causatively - but with many criteria required to be fulfilled in us nonetheless, which God Himself is faithful to fulfill in us by His grace.
Regardless of the fact that you see faith as an evidence rather than a cause.. it doesn't change the fact that it is a condition upon which God has chosen us to salvation.
And while I do contend that believing is something that we must do to be saved.. ultimately it is God who places every person into Christ.
When the Lord told the woman with the issue of blood that her faith has saved her.. you're saying that it is simply evidence that God has already saved her regardless of her faith.. correct ?
I've always taken care to answer all your questions - have I missed any that I'm still not aware of? If so, kindly point me there.
To that question specifically, I would answer - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Then you'd be biblically correct.. doing nothing is biblically uncorrect..
But to the question, what did I causatively do to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ - when so many others do not believe in Him - I would answer, 'Nothing'.
The bible tells us why many don't believe on Him.. and it also gives us simple examples.. like the rich man going away sad because he was rich.. when in reality, according to your pov, God didn't allow him to believe so he couldn't.. right..? Your view completely ignores the reasons provided and sums it up in that God didn't allow it..
We ought to do many things - and we are unable to do all those things - which is precisely why we depend on God to fulfill all these things in us - which is termed faith. By this very definition, faith excludes any causative good by man.
And of course Calvinism takes this to the extreme in that a man can't believe the gospel message unless God allows that, and then condemns men for their unbelief. Adam could hear God's voice in the garden after he fell and he understood that God was calling him.. it's a biblical precedent which speaks for all men in Adam..
This is exactly what I'm speaking against. God does not justify men because of their faith - He justifies them because of Christ alone - which justification we are able to hope for as His promise through faith in what Christ has done and does.
So maybe you should correct the word of God in Romans 5 where it plainly says that we have access into His grace by faith.. or that the just shall live by faith.. are you denying these simple biblical truths ?
Well, Heb 11:1 is mistakenly held to be the definition of faith.
So when Heb 11 says that these all 'embraced His promises by faith'.. having seen them afar off.. that's not a definition of faith.. ?
Faith is simply the act of believing - and to believe is to hold the concerned premise as true.
I would say that Heb 11 says precisely that.. that they embraced His promises and were justified in doing so.
I guess you hold faith and repentance to be conditions to be met causatively by man in the flesh before God will act His Spiritual work in man.
Once again, you can't ignore the simple fact that the gospel is spiritual revelation to man and that the Holy Spirit convinces the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.. NOW what would be the point in that if God allows men to be convinced of it in the first place..?
But isn't repentance a turning away from sins - and isn't that what you believe in God to work out in you because of your inability to turn from it yourself. So, repentance is consequent upon faith in God. And faith itself arises only when you realize you are unable to do anything good in the flesh - hence faith itself cannot be of man in the flesh which is affirmed in Scripture where it says that faith is of God and not of man.
Repentance is toward God and it's based upon godly sorrow.. according to Paul.. it's essentially agreeing with Him that we have all gone astray and that if we continue down this path that we're rightfully condemned in it.. it's also agreeing that if I shall seek to save my life that I will lose it and that if I lose it for Him and the gospel, that I will save it.. NOW how ridiculous would it be if God commands all men everywhere to repent and to obey the gospel, and then denies the means for it.. and then condemns them for being disobedient to the gospel ?
Why so? Does not God retain the right to have mercy and compassion upon whom He wills when anyway none deserve/merit His mercy and when He is not the cause of their transgressions?
That would be ok if the bible didn't clearly say that He has mercy upon all..
And just to confirm, I hope you see that man is condemned because of his own transgressions and not because of the absence of God's mercy.
All unbelievers will have their place in the lake of fire according to scripture.. and yet according to you and Calvinism.. they couldn't believe because God din't allow them to believe..
NOW.. with respect to the main thrust of this thread.. perhaps you can explain why YOU are the elect of God along with His Son.. this would be your contention, correct ? That Christ alone isn't the elect, and that we are also the elect in addition to Him.. ?
