Bible Study Elohim - majestic plural noun or uni-plural noun

[rthom7]

Greetings friends,

I trust we all embrace something along the concept of trinity, but many say the Old Testament supports monotheism rather than tri-theism. Some like the Jewish Rabbi Gordon says the Hebrew word Elohim was always a singular term, and in some cases can be a majestic plural.

Other websites suggest Elohim is a uni-plural noun, Just as "United States" is a plural term, but its also singular term.

I see the term Elohim as uni-plural, and represented many deities all along. Does Hebrew have a word reference for polytheism ,to describe pagan gods for example ? or a system of polytheism worship ? I believe the Hebrew word for this is Elohim.

I get the impression GOD called Abraham out of Ur to learn of a better version of tri-theism, rather than learn a completely different religious concept, which Jews call monotheism. I think part of the confusion arises from the concept that tri-theism can also be one, and we insist in our western thinking that uni-plurals have to be always referenced as "they" or "we"...rather than as "he"

Anyway, I am posting this thread not to debate anybody, but to ask the forum for really good authoritative sources for what the Old Testament use of Elohim really meant.

Gordon talks about 3 to 12 cases of Elohim as plural despite over 2000 cases where its singular. His religion is entirely based on the majority of uses of Elohim, and when I emailed about this he said, your welcome to your polytheism. My question to him was, looking at 100% of the contexts of Elohim, not just 99.9% of them, the term obviously refers polytheism , but he refuses to adopt his theory of faith to the minority of findings he presents in his paper.

Gordon's pdf document : http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...duZmUlxF5Ybpou-DzkHNIug&bvm=bv.82001339,d.cGU

The Author's simple look at Elohim http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1053.htm


Shalom

 

[Malachi]

Some like the Jewish Rabbi Gordon says the Hebrew word Elohim was always a singular term, and in some cases can be a majestic plural.

If we are looking for a Jewish perspective, then this is exactly what we should expect. The Jews of Jesus' day rejected His Deity. The Talmud rejected Him as a false Messiah. So any consideration of Elohim as representing the triune Godhead will be opposed.

I see the term Elohim as uni-plural, and represented many deities all along.

Elohim can be applied to the one true God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) or to the "gods" of the pagans. Sometimes it is used for judges in Israel or mighty men. Context determines how it is being used.

I get the impression GOD called Abraham out of Ur to learn of a better version of tri-theism, rather than learn a completely different religious concept, which Jews call monotheism.

"The mystery of God" (a term used in the NT) is that while God is ONE, He is also three distinct Divine Persons. That is NOT Tri-theism, so this statement would be incorrect. While the Jews saw God as One, they also had intimations of the Trinity in the OT, which was fully revealed in the NT. Tri-theism would be totally pagan.

Anyway, I am posting this thread not to debate anybody, but to ask the forum for really good authoritative sources for what the Old Testament use of Elohim really meant.

Why are you not satisfied that Scripture itself -- the Old Testament -- is the most authoritative and reliable source for the OT use of Elohim? "Scholars" and theologians have their own agendas. Scripture is God revealing Himself to man. A close study of Elohim with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance should be as good as anything anyone could come up with. Why should Gordon be considered the final arbiter of what Elohim means?

 

[Chopper]

Greetings friends,

I trust we all embrace something along the concept of trinity, but many say the Old Testament supports monotheism rather than tri-theism. Some like the Jewish Rabbi Gordon says the Hebrew word Elohim was always a singular term, and in some cases can be a majestic plural.

Other websites suggest Elohim is a uni-plural noun, Just as "United States" is a plural term, but its also singular term.

I see the term Elohim as uni-plural, and represented many deities all along. Does Hebrew have a word reference for polytheism ,to describe pagan gods for example ? or a system of polytheism worship ? I believe the Hebrew word for this is Elohim.

I get the impression GOD called Abraham out of Ur to learn of a better version of tri-theism, rather than learn a completely different religious concept, which Jews call monotheism. I think part of the confusion arises from the concept that tri-theism can also be one, and we insist in our western thinking that uni-plurals have to be always referenced as "they" or "we"...rather than as "he"

Anyway, I am posting this thread not to debate anybody, but to ask the forum for really good authoritative sources for what the Old Testament use of Elohim really meant.

Gordon talks about 3 to 12 cases of Elohim as plural despite over 2000 cases where its singular. His religion is entirely based on the majority of uses of Elohim, and when I emailed about this he said, your welcome to your polytheism. My question to him was, looking at 100% of the contexts of Elohim, not just 99.9% of them, the term obviously refers polytheism , but he refuses to adopt his theory of faith to the minority of findings he presents in his paper.

Gordon's pdf document : http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http://www.karaite-korner.org/sources/6.pdf&ei=nzmVVOTBOsrXoATduYKoAQ&usg=AFQjCNEVubrduZmUlxF5Ybpou-DzkHNIug&bvm=bv.82001339,d.cGU

The Author's simple look at Elohim http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1053.htm


Shalom

Very good instruction my friend. Especially the teaching from your website spiritualsprings.org. It's very important IMO, that we know the Jewish view point on the subject of the Trinity.

Thank you Professor.

 

[rthom7]

If we are looking for a Jewish perspective, then this is exactly what we should expect. The Jews of Jesus' day rejected His Deity. The Talmud rejected Him as a false Messiah. So any consideration of Elohim as representing the triune Godhead will be opposed.


Elohim can be applied to the one true God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) or to the "gods" of the pagans. Sometimes it is used for judges in Israel or mighty men. Context determines how it is being used.


"The mystery of God" (a term used in the NT) is that while God is ONE, He is also three distinct Divine Persons. That is NOT Tri-theism, so this statement would be incorrect. While the Jews saw God as One, they also had intimations of the Trinity in the OT, which was fully revealed in the NT. Tri-theism would be totally pagan.


Why are you not satisfied that Scripture itself -- the Old Testament -- is the most authoritative and reliable source for the OT use of Elohim? "Scholars" and theologians have their own agendas. Scripture is God revealing Himself to man. A close study of Elohim with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance should be as good as anything anyone could come up with. Why should Gordon be considered the final arbiter of what Elohim means?

Malachi you write very well....

Why are you not satisfied that Scripture itself -- the Old Testament -- is the most authoritative and reliable source for the OT use of Elohim?

I am trying to help others in the WWW with doubts about Elohim....

"The mystery of God" (a term used in the NT) is that while God is ONE, He is also three distinct Divine Persons. That is NOT Tri-theism, so this statement would be incorrect. While the Jews saw God as One, they also had intimations of the Trinity in the OT, which was fully revealed in the NT. Tri-theism would be totally pagan.

Could you expand on this some more please...its a great read....

uni-plural can mean any number of strong authorities, is that what you mean ?
Where are the cases in the OT where Jews saw G_D differently ?

Tri-theism would be totally pagan. Please explain.

Shalom

 

[jasonc]

Elohim its not even original to Hebrew but an aramiac word that was borrowed. I agree rthom. chopper this is what I was saying a while ago.

 

[JLB]

Man created in the image and likeness of God...

How is man, as spirit, soul and body, which are three distinct elements yet function as one, understood by the Jewish mind?


Which this question is not even fair, because one would have to ask; the Jewish mind filled with the Spirit of God, or the Jewish mind without the Spirit of God.

How does the Jewish mind, filled with the Spirit of God, understand the word Elohim, and how this word relates to man who is created in His image and likeness?



JLB

 

[Malachi]

Malachi you write very well....

Thank you kindly.

Why are you not satisfied that Scripture itself -- the Old Testament -- is the most authoritative and reliable source for the OT use of Elohim?

I am trying to help others in the WWW with doubts about Elohim....

If you do not already have access to Old Testament Word Studies by William Wilson (Kregel, reprint 1978, available from several sources), that could be very helpful. Regarding Elohim (male plural), he says "...the name more generally used of the God revealed in Scripture, as to creation and providence, IN THE PLURAL INTIMATING THE THREE PERSONS OF THE GODHEAD..."

"The mystery of God" (a term used in the NT) is that while God is ONE, He is also three distinct Divine Persons. That is NOT Tri-theism, so this statement would be incorrect. While the Jews saw God as One, they also had intimations of the Trinity in the OT, which was fully revealed in the NT. Tri-theism would be totally pagan.

Could you expand on this some more please...its a great read....

We will limit our focus to the book of Genesis (KJV), but the three Persons of the Godhead are throughout the OT:

Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:5-8 -- Why do we read "us" and "our" in these three passages? Scripture does not use the royal "us" which was common among men, and when God is seen addressing men, either in a vision or in a theophany, it is always "I" not "we". The "us" and "our" show plurality within the Godhead, which is essentially a mystery.

Gen 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward". If you meditate on this, it seems rather strange that the "word" of God sounds like a person who tells Abram that He is his protector and his greatest reward. But when one turns to John 1:1-3, one finds that "the Word of God" is indeed the Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, who is specifically called "God" (Theos) in that passage. Therefore in Gen 15:1 and 15:4, the AV should have capitalized "word" and those verses would make perfect sense.

Since God the Father is "a Spirit" (Jn 4:24), it is always God the Word (the Son of God) who appeared to men throughout the OT, often as "the Angel of the Lord", and then took human form as Jesus of Nazareth (Mt 1:18-25) when "the fulness of time was come" (Gal 4:4).

Gen 18:1: "And the LORD [YHWH] appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day". As you go through this chapter to verse 33, you see that three "men" appear to Abraham, but strangely enough, he calls them "My Lord" and offers them refreshments. But here is something else which is strange. In v. 9 "And THEY SAID unto Him..." and in v 10 "and HE SAID.." and then we find it is the LORD who is speaking to Abraham. Then in v 21 "I will go down..." and in v 22 "And the men turned their faces...", but in v 33 "And the LORD went His way..." Who are these "three men" yet one LORD? Why this going back and forth between three and one? The other two are not identified as angels either. How can this be resolved without knowledge of the Trinity?

Then we have "the Angel of the Lord" speaking to Abraham as though God Himself is speaking and re-confirming the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen 22:11,15). It is clear that this "Angel" is unlike any other angel and appears again and again in the OT, and is always worshipped as God. He comes to Jacob as "a Man", wrestles with him, gives him a blessing, calls him "Israel", and is recognized as "God". Therefore Jacob calls the name of that place "Peniel" (Penuel = face of God), and says "for I have seen God face to face" (Gen 32:30). Jacob knew that no man could see God and live, because that is what Scripture reveals (Exod 33:20). Yet his life was preserved. What is this mystery?

Therefore we go to John 1:18 to understand how Jacob could go on living: "No man hath seen God at any time; THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared [Gk exegeomai = unfolded, rehearsed, made known, revealed] Him". Thus we come to Gen 26:2,4 and Gen 28:13 and see "the LORD" [YHWH] appearing to Isaac as well as to Jacob. This LORD can be none other than the one who is called "God" in Psalm 45:6,7 by God Himself, and is known to be the Son of God (Heb 1:8,9): Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

uni-plural can mean any number of strong authorities, is that what you mean ?

Scofield has a good note on this at Gen 1:1: "Elohim (sometimes El or Elah), English form "God", the first of the three primary names of Deity, is a uni-plural noun formed from El = strength, or the strong one, and Alah, to swear, to bind oneself by an oath, so implying faithfulness. This uni-plurality implied in the name is directly asserted in Gen 1:26 (plurality) 27 (unity); see also Gen 3:22. Thus the Trinity is latent in Elohim..."

Tri-theism would be totally pagan. Please explain.

Tri-theism (three gods) is only a modified form of polytheism (mutilpe gods). There is only one LORD God Almighty, therefore there cannot be any Tri-theism (Deut 6:4,5). However, there can be a triune-Godhead (Mt 28:19).

 

[rthom7]

Thank you kindly.


If you do not already have access to Old Testament Word Studies by William Wilson (Kregel, reprint 1978, available from several sources), that could be very helpful. Regarding Elohim (male plural), he says "...the name more generally used of the God revealed in Scripture, as to creation and providence, IN THE PLURAL INTIMATING THE THREE PERSONS OF THE GODHEAD..."


We will limit our focus to the book of Genesis (KJV), but the three Persons of the Godhead are throughout the OT:

Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:5-8 -- Why do we read "us" and "our" in these three passages? Scripture does not use the royal "us" which was common among men, and when God is seen addressing men, either in a vision or in a theophany, it is always "I" not "we". The "us" and "our" show plurality within the Godhead, which is essentially a mystery.

Gen 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward". If you meditate on this, it seems rather strange that the "word" of God sounds like a person who tells Abram that He is his protector and his greatest reward. But when one turns to John 1:1-3, one finds that "the Word of God" is indeed the Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, who is specifically called "God" (Theos) in that passage. Therefore in Gen 15:1 and 15:4, the AV should have capitalized "word" and those verses would make perfect sense.

Since God the Father is "a Spirit" (Jn 4:24), it is always God the Word (the Son of God) who appeared to men throughout the OT, often as "the Angel of the Lord", and then took human form as Jesus of Nazareth (Mt 1:18-25) when "the fulness of time was come" (Gal 4:4).

Gen 18:1: "And the LORD [YHWH] appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day". As you go through this chapter to verse 33, you see that three "men" appear to Abraham, but strangely enough, he calls them "My Lord" and offers them refreshments. But here is something else which is strange. In v. 9 "And THEY SAID unto Him..." and in v 10 "and HE SAID.." and then we find it is the LORD who is speaking to Abraham. Then in v 21 "I will go down..." and in v 22 "And the men turned their faces...", but in v 33 "And the LORD went His way..." Who are these "three men" yet one LORD? Why this going back and forth between three and one? The other two are not identified as angels either. How can this be resolved without knowledge of the Trinity?

Then we have "the Angel of the Lord" speaking to Abraham as though God Himself is speaking and re-confirming the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen 22:11,15). It is clear that this "Angel" is unlike any other angel and appears again and again in the OT, and is always worshipped as God. He comes to Jacob as "a Man", wrestles with him, gives him a blessing, calls him "Israel", and is recognized as "God". Therefore Jacob calls the name of that place "Peniel" (Penuel = face of God), and says "for I have seen God face to face" (Gen 32:30). Jacob knew that no man could see God and live, because that is what Scripture reveals (Exod 33:20). Yet his life was preserved. What is this mystery?

Therefore we go to John 1:18 to understand how Jacob could go on living: "No man hath seen God at any time; THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared [Gk exegeomai = unfolded, rehearsed, made known, revealed] Him". Thus we come to Gen 26:2,4 and Gen 28:13 and see "the LORD" [YHWH] appearing to Isaac as well as to Jacob. This LORD can be none other than the one who is called "God" in Psalm 45:6,7 by God Himself, and is known to be the Son of God (Heb 1:8,9): Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


Scofield has a good note on this at Gen 1:1: "Elohim (sometimes El or Elah), English form "God", the first of the three primary names of Deity, is a uni-plural noun formed from El = strength, or the strong one, and Alah, to swear, to bind oneself by an oath, so implying faithfulness. This uni-plurality implied in the name is directly asserted in Gen 1:26 (plurality) 27 (unity); see also Gen 3:22. Thus the Trinity is latent in Elohim..."


Tri-theism (three gods) is only a modified form of polytheism (mutilpe gods). There is only one LORD God Almighty, therefore there cannot be any Tri-theism (Deut 6:4,5). However, there can be a triune-Godhead (Mt 28:19).

Wow thanks Malachi you have explained this so well and beautifully... I will treasure your comments and add them to my own website of research on this matter....

Ex 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And YHWH said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Does the Father have a book of life, or does this truly prove Jesus is speaking to Moses ?

Eze 9:2 ..... and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations...

Explain these verses please.....who is the Being sent to judge and seal the Israel righteous BEFORE the city falls...is this Jesus? Does the context suggest a human being or angel ?

Thanks.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi rthom7

I see the term Elohim as uni-plural, and represented many deities all along. Does Hebrew have a word reference for polytheism ,to describe pagan gods for example ? or a system of polytheism worship ? I believe the Hebrew word for this is Elohim.

I too see the term Elohim as uni-plural. You may find this interesting, but the word Elohim is not a Hebrew word, but is borrowed from the Sumerians and is considered Ugaritic. Abram was called out from UR which was in the heart of Sumeria (Chaldees) so I don't see it a far stretch to simply say Abram kept a portion of his original tongue.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/


You may already know this, but El is singular and Elohim is plural. In many Ancient Near Eastern text (ANE) El is the title for a single deity and Elohim denotes the head of the pantheon. Both El and Elohim can be considered titles.

Within the Hebrew Texts, we see the word El and Elohim used both to describe YHVH and the pagan gods.
Exodus 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods (Elohim) of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD (YHVH)
In this case, Elohim denotes the Egyptian gods whom YHVH confronts. Each plague is directed at a specific Egyptian god, all the way up to Pharaoh who claims to be Ra incarnate and giver and taker of life.

Exodus 18:11 Now I know that the LORD (YHVH) is greater than all gods (Elohim): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
YHVH is greater than all the gods of the pantheon of Egypt, including Pharaoh.

Psalms 95:3 For the LORD (YHVH) is a great God (El), and a great King above all gods (Elohim)
YHVH is a great El, and rules above all the other Ancient Near Eastern gods.

Exodus 34:6 And the LORD (YHVH) passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD (YHVH), The LORD (YHVH) God (El), merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,.
I like this verse because it clearly shows name and title. Name being YHVH and title being El.

The list can go on and on, but it gives you an idea how the word was used.

 

[JLB]

Malachi said -

Gen 18:1: "And the LORD [YHWH] appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day". As you go through this chapter to verse 33, you see that three "men" appear to Abraham, but strangely enough, he calls them "My Lord" and offers them refreshments. But here is something else which is strange. In v. 9 "And THEY SAID unto Him..." and in v 10 "and HE SAID.." and then we find it is the LORD who is speaking to Abraham. Then in v 21 "I will go down..." and in v 22 "And the men turned their faces...", but in v 33 "And the LORD went His way..." Who are these "three men" yet one LORD? Why this going back and forth between three and one? The other two are not identified as angels either. How can this be resolved without knowledge of the Trinity?

In this account the Lord [Jesus] is among the three, yet the other two are angels.

As these go to Sodom we read they are referred to as angels.

1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, "Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way." And they said, "No, but we will spend the night in the open square." Genesis 19:1-2


Also we should consider that it was God the Son, who always appeared unto men in the Old Testament.

Whether as the Angel of the Lord... or as The Lord as in the case on Genesis 17 to make Covenant with Abram.


1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1

and again -

1 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, "I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn." 4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am." 5 Then He said, "Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground." 6 Moreover He said, "I am the God of your father--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6


Here the progression of understanding is seen, as the Angel of the Lord is in fact The Lord and God. He reveals Himself as The God who made Covenant with Him in Genesis 17.


God The Father was not seen by man.

Only until the Cross and the Resurrection, when Jesus took those in the heart of the earth up to heaven.

For until then men had not seen God the Father.

18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18


Under the Old Covenant men only had their sins atoned for, not taken away.


For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5



JLB

 

[stovebolts]

The clearest example of Elohim as being plural is Genesis 1:1-3

Genesis 1:1-3 In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (Ruach) of God (Elohim) moved upon the face of the waters. And God said (Davar aka word), Let there be light: and there was light.

We see God (plural). We know that God's name is YHVH. He has a Spirit (Ruach) and he speaks. When he speaks, we consider this his "word" (Davar). And what does God speak, but his very nature aka Light. God's word can always be recognized by the light. (Jesus said he was the light of all men".

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 14:9-11 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[Jesse]

Hi rthom7

I too see the term Elohim as uni-plural. You may find this interesting, but the word Elohim is not a Hebrew word, but is borrowed from the Sumerians and is considered Ugaritic. Abram was called out from UR which was in the heart of Sumeria (Chaldees) so I don't see it a far stretch to simply say Abram kept a portion of his original tongue.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/


You may already know this, but El is singular and Elohim is plural. In many Ancient Near Eastern text (ANE) El is the title for a single deity and Elohim denotes the head of the pantheon. Both El and Elohim can be considered titles.

Within the Hebrew Texts, we see the word El and Elohim used both to describe YHVH and the pagan gods.
Exodus 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods (Elohim) of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD (YHVH)
In this case, Elohim denotes the Egyptian gods whom YHVH confronts. Each plague is directed at a specific Egyptian god, all the way up to Pharaoh who claims to be Ra incarnate and giver and taker of life.

Exodus 18:11 Now I know that the LORD (YHVH) is greater than all gods (Elohim): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
YHVH is greater than all the gods of the pantheon of Egypt, including Pharaoh.

Psalms 95:3 For the LORD (YHVH) is a great God (El), and a great King above all gods (Elohim)
YHVH is a great El, and rules above all the other Ancient Near Eastern gods.

Exodus 34:6 And the LORD (YHVH) passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD (YHVH), The LORD (YHVH) God (El), merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,.
I like this verse because it clearly shows name and title. Name being YHVH and title being El.

The list can go on and on, but it gives you an idea how the word was used.

This thread and especially your post has been interesting and enlightening, really enjoying all of it. I've studied the word Elohim before, but this has opened my eyes even greater. The tidbit about the plagues is fascinating, this is something I plan to study more in depth.

Has anyone considered that Elohim could be a word that encompasses all of God's attributes, besides the Trinity? We sort of stop short when it comes to the word Elohim, it seems. It would be describing not only God's attributes, the Trinity but including all of His Ways, and how we come to know Him. If you look closer at this word and all of it's parts and those meanings, in one word, God captured the entire message of the Bible.

Does anyone see this, too? Agree? Disagree?

 

[stovebolts]

This thread and especially your post has been interesting and enlightening, really enjoying all of it. I've studied the word Elohim before, but this has opened my eyes even greater. The tidbit about the plagues is fascinating, this is something I plan to study more in depth.

Has anyone considered that Elohim could be a word that encompasses all of God's attributes, besides the Trinity? We sort of stop short when it comes to the word Elohim, it seems. It would be describing not only God's attributes, the Trinity but including all of His Ways, and how we come to know Him. If you look closer at this word and all of it's parts and those meanings, in one word, God captured the entire message of the Bible.

Does anyone see this, too? Agree? Disagree?

You would enjoy this. It's a good start for your studies.
http://www.padfield.com/acrobat/history/gods_of_egypt.pdf

As far as the attributes of God, from the studies I've done on Elohim, this word serves more as a title for El. El is the Singular term for Elohim, and Elohim means head of the pantheon. We see this in the trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Names in the Bible are very significant. You might want to remember Abram gets a new name and is called Abraham, and Jacob gets a new name which is Israel. Names are attached to attributes. If you want to know about somebody in the Bible, pay attention to their name. Even the apostle Paul, was named Saul before his encounter.

Here is a good site for you to begin looking at all the names of God as they relate to God's attributes. YHVH is the most complete attribute. Yud Hey Vav Hey. Each letter represents an attribute. (Hebrew letters are pictorial)
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Father/father.html

On of my favorites is El Shaddia (God Almighty). It means the great shepherd! If you look at it's original origin, the letters take on the form of a shepherds staff and an ox's head. It denotes a strong shepherd who protects his flock from danger, and tends to their needs.

The more you study, the more you'll see how tension is used for reconciliation. Strong and protective, while being tender and caring. Shalom is such a word, It is to create peace by doing what is right, so that evil will not get an upper hand.

 

[jasonc]

You would enjoy this. It's a good start for your studies.
http://www.padfield.com/acrobat/history/gods_of_egypt.pdf

As far as the attributes of God, from the studies I've done on Elohim, this word serves more as a title for El. El is the Singular term for Elohim, and Elohim means head of the pantheon. We see this in the trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Names in the Bible are very significant. You might want to remember Abram gets a new name and is called Abraham, and Jacob gets a new name which is Israel. Names are attached to attributes. If you want to know about somebody in the Bible, pay attention to their name. Even the apostle Paul, was named Saul before his encounter.

Here is a good site for you to begin looking at all the names of God as they relate to God's attributes. YHVH is the most complete attribute. Yud Hey Vav Hey. Each letter represents an attribute. (Hebrew letters are pictorial)
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Father/father.html

On of my favorites is El Shaddia (God Almighty). It means the great shepherd! If you look at it's original origin, the letters take on the form of a shepherds staff and an ox's head. It denotes a strong shepherd who protects his flock from danger, and tends to their needs.

The more you study, the more you'll see how tension is used for reconciliation. Strong and protective, while being tender and caring. Shalom is such a word, It is to create peace by doing what is right, so that evil will not get an upper hand.

the aleph and the daleth. in the proto Hebrew, not modern.

 

[Malachi]

Ex 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And YHWH said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Does the Father have a book of life, or does this truly prove Jesus is speaking to Moses ?

That's a very interesting question, and the answer is also quite unique. In Exodus 32:30-35 it is the LORD [YHWH] who speaks to Moses and in this context it is God the Father who speaks, because Jesus is "the Angel of the Lord", and YHWH says to Moses (v. 34) "... behold, MINE ANGEL shall go before thee: nevertheless, in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them".

So here the Book of Life belongs to the Father. But in Rev 21:27 it is called "the Lamb's book of life", and the Lamb is Jesus (Jn 1:29,36). Which once again shows us the tri-unity of the Godhead.

Eze 9:2 ..... and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations...

Explain these verses please.....who is the Being sent to judge and seal the Israel righteous BEFORE the city falls...is this Jesus? Does the context suggest a human being or angel ?

Here we need to go through the whole chapter to see that there is Someone standing before Ezekiel and the prophet falls on his face, and says to Him "Ah Lord GOD!..." (9:8). [Here you will note that "Lord" is not in all small capitals (as is it for YHWH), but "GOD" is capitalized. So in Hebrew, Ezekiel said "Ah Adonay (Adonai) Yehovih!" ] Since there is a Person standing, this is God the Word, Jesus. And since the man clothed in linen says to Him (9:11) "...I have done as thou hast commanded", and the command was for a supernatural mark to be placed upon the foreheads of specific individuals (9:4), then we can safely conclude that this man is an angel "clothed with linen". Here angels are called "men" (9:2).

 

[rthom7]

Hi rthom7

I too see the term Elohim as uni-plural. You may find this interesting, but the word Elohim is not a Hebrew word, but is borrowed from the Sumerians and is considered Ugaritic. Abram was called out from UR which was in the heart of Sumeria (Chaldees) so I don't see it a far stretch to simply say Abram kept a portion of his original tongue.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/


You may already know this, but El is singular and Elohim is plural. In many Ancient Near Eastern text (ANE) El is the title for a single deity and Elohim denotes the head of the pantheon. Both El and Elohim can be considered titles.

Within the Hebrew Texts, we see the word El and Elohim used both to describe YHVH and the pagan gods.
Exodus 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods (Elohim) of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD (YHVH)
In this case, Elohim denotes the Egyptian gods whom YHVH confronts. Each plague is directed at a specific Egyptian god, all the way up to Pharaoh who claims to be Ra incarnate and giver and taker of life.

Exodus 18:11 Now I know that the LORD (YHVH) is greater than all gods (Elohim): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
YHVH is greater than all the gods of the pantheon of Egypt, including Pharaoh.

Psalms 95:3 For the LORD (YHVH) is a great God (El), and a great King above all gods (Elohim)
YHVH is a great El, and rules above all the other Ancient Near Eastern gods.

Exodus 34:6 And the LORD (YHVH) passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD (YHVH), The LORD (YHVH) God (El), merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,.
I like this verse because it clearly shows name and title. Name being YHVH and title being El.

The list can go on and on, but it gives you an idea how the word was used.

Thanks Stove, very interesting website... yes Ugarit is almost the same a Hebrew, suggesting Hebrew is the mother of all languages....
Shalom

 

[rthom7]

T

That's a very interesting question, and the answer is also quite unique. In Exodus 32:30-35 it is the LORD [YHWH] who speaks to Moses and in this context it is God the Father who speaks, because Jesus is "the Angel of the Lord", and YHWH says to Moses (v. 34) "... behold, MINE ANGEL shall go before thee: nevertheless, in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them".

So here the Book of Life belongs to the Father. But in Rev 21:27 it is called "the Lamb's book of life", and the Lamb is Jesus (Jn 1:29,36). Which once again shows us the tri-unity of the Godhead.



Here we need to go through the whole chapter to see that there is Someone standing before Ezekiel and the prophet falls on his face, and says to Him "Ah Lord GOD!..." (9:8). [Here you will note that "Lord" is not in all small capitals (as is it for YHWH), but "GOD" is capitalized. So in Hebrew, Ezekiel said "Ah Adonay (Adonai) Yehovih!" ] Since there is a Person standing, this is God the Word, Jesus. And since the man clothed in linen says to Him (9:11) "...I have done as thou hast commanded", and the command was for a supernatural mark to be placed upon the foreheads of specific individuals (9:4), then we can safely conclude that this man is an angel "clothed with linen". Here angels are called "men" (9:2).

Thank you brother.....Shalom

 

[rthom7]

This thread and especially your post has been interesting and enlightening, really enjoying all of it. I've studied the word Elohim before, but this has opened my eyes even greater. The tidbit about the plagues is fascinating, this is something I plan to study more in depth.

Has anyone considered that Elohim could be a word that encompasses all of God's attributes, besides the Trinity? We sort of stop short when it comes to the word Elohim, it seems. It would be describing not only God's attributes, the Trinity but including all of His Ways, and how we come to know Him. If you look closer at this word and all of it's parts and those meanings, in one word, God captured the entire message of the Bible.

Does anyone see this, too? Agree? Disagree?

Thanks Jesse, I didn't know this thread was useful...I really enjoy the reading of all the responses, and yes I would agree with you Elohim is a word describing more than other websites say.... thanks for the share.... Shalom

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks Stove, very interesting website... yes Ugarit is almost the same a Hebrew, suggesting Hebrew is the mother of all languages....
Shalom

This is actually a far better site.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/

Not sure where you got Hebrew was the mother of all languages. I didn't think that site made that claim. The earliest writings we have are from where Abram came out of which are Sumerian. We see writings mentioning El and Elohim far before the biblical account and El and Elohim are not YHVH within those writings.

One could say, however, that when Noah repopulated the earth there were those who took El's name and swapped it for a fraud.

 

[rthom7]

This is actually a far better site.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/

Not sure where you got Hebrew was the mother of all languages. I didn't think that site made that claim. The earliest writings we have are from where Abram came out of which are Sumerian. We see writings mentioning El and Elohim far before the biblical account and El and Elohim are not YHVH within those writings.

One could say, however, that when Noah repopulated the earth there were those who took El's name and swapped it for a fraud.

Arhh yes Stove Ancient-Hebrew.org is my faviourite Ancient Hebrew site, the work of Jeff Benner, I have been influenced by his Bible script...

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-5.htm I write quite a few pages about this website and my findings of it here ...

Shalom