[_ Old Earth _] Empirical Scientific Evidence for the Bible

[JohnR]

There is plenty of scientific evidence for the Bible. In fact we have more Empirical evidence today than before. Many of the town and citys in the Bible have been excavated and they have confirmed as much as they can, that what we read about them in the Bible is true. For example, Jericho really was a walled city and the walls of the city really did fall down just as the Bible says. In fact when the Hebrew Children passed the Jordan into the promised land, there were a lot of cities that they burned and destoryed. The evidence of that is still there today. Just like there is evidence for Sodom and Gomorrah being destoryed.

Also we know that there were great builders that we read about in our Bible. Solomon and Nebuchadrezzar for example were both great builders and there is a lot of evidence for that still today. In Jerusalem for example at the temple mound we can see the foundation for Solomons temple. In fact they execavated one of the walls and they call it the Weeping Wall. In Iraq there are photos of american soldiers standing in from of ancient buildings that go back to Bible times.

Even the controversal book of Genesis can be confirmed by Science to be true. For example, the Bible begins with: "In the beginning". Science confirms that the world has a beginning and a end. We read about how: "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep". The Ruin-Reconstruction theory says that this is exactly what happens. Destruction on the earth often comes from a Volcano and the dust is so thick that there is darkness on the earth. It is said that at one time a comet hit the earth and raised a lot of dust so that darkness covered the earth and there was a lot of destruction. A lot of the different species at the time went extinct. Often these is followed by a population explosion or radiation.

There is endless empirical evidence that can be used to show the Bible is true. Evidence that stands on it's own merit. If people want to accept it or not there is still all the evidence they will ever need. But the Bible says we have to seek after these things.

Luke 11:9-10
"And I say to you, ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you. [10] "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it shall be opened.

 

[blunthitta4life]

I'm curious to hear some of the passages that support this:

Even the controversal book of Genesis can be confirmed by Science to be true. For example, the Bible begins with: "In the beginning". Science confirms that the world has a beginning and a end. We read about how: "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep". The Ruin-Reconstruction theory says that this is exactly what happens. Destruction on the earth often comes from a Volcano and the dust is so thick that there is darkness on the earth. It is said that at one time a comet hit the earth and raised a lot of dust so that darkness covered the earth and there was a lot of destruction. A lot of the different species at the time went extinct. Often these is followed by a population explosion or radiation.

 

[JohnR]

I'm curious to hear some of the passages that support this:

You can do a search in the Bible on the work darkness. As far as ruin and destruction you will find the prophets talking about the darkness that would fall upon Isreal because of their rebellion. Destruction would also be a good word to check out.

Psalm 91:3-6
Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
[4] He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
[5] You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,
Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
[6] Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,
Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.

 

[blunthitta4life]

Psalm 91:3-6
Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
[4] He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
[5] You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,
Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
[6] Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,
Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.

Sorry I'm confused. What does this passage support?

I believe the bible provides an accurate historical account, however, I don't agree that it provides scientific evidence. You can't prove that God created the earth as stated in genesis nor can you prove God exists. It all requires faith.

By your logic, because the bible makes a claim that appears to be true it validates the bible. What if a different religious text makes a claim that appears to be true? What happens then?

 

[JohnR]

Sorry I'm confused. What does this passage support?

This is a passage that has to do with darkness and destruction. The Bible says that a testimony is established by two or three witnesses. So you need at least two or three passages in the Bible to establish doctrine as being true. In some cases you can find 2 or 3 thousand passages in the Bible when your talking about something like God's love for mankind.

I believe the bible provides an accurate historical account, however, I don't agree that it provides scientific evidence.

The Bible is very accurate. But what I am looking for is the scientific evidence for the Bible. There is lots and lots and lots of empirical evidence that shows the Bible is true. There is NO empirical that falsifys the Bible in any way.

You can't prove that God created the earth as stated in genesis nor can you prove God exists. It all requires faith.

There is plenty of empirical scientific evidence that God created the earth as it is stated in genesis. Science is limited and so there are things in the Bible that we are required to accept by faith.

By your logic, because the bible makes a claim that appears to be true it validates the bible. What if a different religious text makes a claim that appears to be true? What happens then?

I have not studied different religous text. So I could not say if they are true or not. I have studied the Bible and I have done a diligent search for scientific evidence that shows us the Bible is true. Science has made a lot of progress, so we have more empirical evidence for the Bible then ever before.

 

[JohnR]

Sorry I'm confused. What does this passage support?

This is a passage that has to do with darkness and destruction. The Bible says that a testimony is established by two or three witnesses. So you need at least two or three passages in the Bible to establish doctrine as being true. In some cases you can find 2 or 3 thousand passages in the Bible when your talking about something like God's love for mankind.

I believe the bible provides an accurate historical account, however, I don't agree that it provides scientific evidence.

The Bible is very accurate. But what I am looking for is the scientific evidence for the Bible. There is lots and lots and lots of empirical evidence that shows the Bible is true. There is NO empirical that falsifys the Bible in any way.

You can't prove that God created the earth as stated in genesis nor can you prove God exists. It all requires faith.

There is plenty of empirical scientific evidence that God created the earth as it is stated in genesis. Science is limited and so there are things in the Bible that we are required to accept by faith.

By your logic, because the bible makes a claim that appears to be true it validates the bible. What if a different religious text makes a claim that appears to be true? What happens then?

I have not studied different religous text. So I could not say if they are true or not. I have studied the Bible and I have done a diligent search for scientific evidence that shows us the Bible is true. Science has made a lot of progress, so we have more empirical evidence for the Bible then ever before.

 

[jwu]

I have studied the Bible and I have done a diligent search for scientific evidence that shows us the Bible is true.

This kind of reminds me of this:

 

[blunthitta4life]

I have studied the Bible and I have done a diligent search for scientific evidence that shows us the Bible is true. Science has made a lot of progress, so we have more empirical evidence for the Bible then ever before.

Like...? Please post some examples of scientific evidence that shows the bible true?

So how old is the universe JohnR?

What CREDIBLE scientific evidence supports a global flood?

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

The Bible contains numerical constants PI & E, and other mathematical and geometric constants!
http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/index.htm
http://members.home.nl/frankcolijn/fran ... ndexEN.htm
http://members.home.nl/frankcolijn/fran ... agoras.htm
http://members.home.nl/frankcolijn/fran ... e_time.htm

http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenki ... Princs.htm
In mathematics, the sciences, and engineering, the two most widely known and used dimensionless constants are pi and e. PI is most known for sizing circles and spheres. It has been known from ancient times, approximated by the fraction 22/7, or 3.142857 (error: + 0.04%) Its modern value is 3.141592654 etc... The consant e known also as Euler's number, occurs naturally in any situation where a quantity increases at a rate proportional to its value, such as a bank account producing interest, or a population increasing as its members reproduce. Both these fundamental constants may be derived from the scripture gemartia: pi from the Hebrew of Genesis 1:1, and e from the Greek of John 1:1 with an error of 0.001%.

Both Hebrew and Greek letters also represented numbers. Paul states in 2 Tim 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." One must believe these numbers, and any information they may be found to convey has significance.

The Bible's first verse comprises 7 Hebrew words formed from a total of 28 letters. John 1:1 contains 17 words, comprising 52 letters. The product of letter values / the product of word values = R1 Times R2 = number of letters / number of words. The evaluation of pi is derived from Genesis 1:1. The evaluation of e is derived from John 1:1. In these two verses

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." ... and ...
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

there exists a strong textual bonding. The respective sums of their letters, 2701 and 3627; reveals by closer examination that they, (a) possess reflective factorisations, 2701 = 37 x 73, and 3627 = 39 x 93, and (b) that they display significant and integrated numerical geometries. 2701 is 73rd triangular number. The sum of Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 is also triangular, 2701 + 3627 = 6328 is the 112th triangular number! It follows that 3627 may be realised as a numerical trapezium with parallel sides of 74 and 112, and height a of 39. This highly symbolic equilateral triangles suggests within itself God's triune nature.

Estimates of pi or e that are obtained as the ratio of two integers must, necessarily, be an approximation. It is interesting, and significant, that the errors involved in the foregoing derivations, -0.0012 and +0.0011, respectively, are small, of the same order of magnitude, and of opposite polarities. It is appropriate that we derive a 'handle' on the kind of odds against this being a chance happening, bearing in mind the fundamental nature and close relationship of the sources involved. Here, again, are the first 10 digits of "estimated true value" of pi and e, respectively, with matching significant digits underlined:

3.141554509 : 3.141592654 and 2.718312812 : 2.718281828

Clearly, if these figures are rounded, both p and e are seen to be correct to 5 significant figures. Based upon a random distribution of the variables (a not unreasonable assumption in the circumstances), a simple estimate of the combined probability of these events may therefore be obtained as follows:Since the first digit in each case could have been any one of nine in the range 1-9, and each of the remaining matching digits, any one of ten in the range 0-9, each event is associated with a probability of 1/90,000; and because they are independent, the final assessment is of the order of ten billion* to 1 against them occurring fortuitously.

A briefly recap ofthe presented evidence -
-The Hebrew letters and words of the Old Testament and the Greek letters and words of the New Testament each have an uncontrived numerical dimension that arises directly from their involvement in the alphanumeric systems of these ancient people.
-The application of a simple numerical procedures to Hebrew letters and words of the Bible's first verse Gen 1:1 generates an approximation of pi, correct to 5 significant figures (error 0.0012%).
-The application of the identical procedures to the first verse of the Gospel of John (which has much in common with Gen 1:1 generates an approximation of e, also correct to 5 significant figures (error 0.0011%).
It would be extremely unreasonable to suppose that these events are fortuitous accidents; rather, highly likely that they are features of purposeful design.
-The circumstantial evidence, via the text and geometrical links between these verses, strongly confirms this view.
-Clearly, the planning of these wonders must have preceded the writing of Genesis 1:1 (2nd millenium BC), the Hebrew alphabetic system of numeration (c200 BC), and the writing of John 1:1 (c100 AD). Further, the fundamental constant e could not have been known by man before the 18th century AD!
-Quite obviously, therefore, what we have described here has to be viewed as a purposeful supernatural act! And because the verses on which the phenomena are centred speak of "Elohim" and "Jesus Christ", it is not
hard to deduce the identity of their author.

The standing miracle (for it is nothing less!) informs us as follows-
-The statements of Gen.1:1 and John 1:1 were made by the same author (and scientist); henceforth, their truth cannot be questioned by any of rational mind.
-There are now strong reasons for believing the whole of God's Word read literally to be completely trustworthy.
-It is now clear that God has therein provided empirical evidence of his being and sovereignty; in this 'Age of Reason'. He is acting decisively so that none should perish through ignorance or foolishness.

Age of Universe Revised, Again
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/a ... 30103.html
In a study published in the journal Science, researchers says the universe is between 11.2 billion and 20 billion years old. Most estimates in recent years have ranged between 10 billion and 15 billion years. Last year, data supplied by the Hubble Space Telescope led to an apparently refined estimate of 13 billion to 14 billion years.

In my next post I'll show from Jewish Literature, that God long ago told us the age of the universe!

 

[Packrat]

There is plenty of scientific evidence for the Bible. In fact we have more Empirical evidence today than before. Many of the town and citys in the Bible have been excavated and they have confirmed as much as they can, that what we read about them in the Bible is true. For example, Jericho really was a walled city and the walls of the city really did fall down just as the Bible says. In fact when the Hebrew Children passed the Jordan into the promised land, there were a lot of cities that they burned and destoryed. The evidence of that is still there today. Just like there is evidence for Sodom and Gomorrah being destoryed.

Also we know that there were great builders that we read about in our Bible. Solomon and Nebuchadrezzar for example were both great builders and there is a lot of evidence for that still today. In Jerusalem for example at the temple mound we can see the foundation for Solomons temple. In fact they execavated one of the walls and they call it the Weeping Wall. In Iraq there are photos of american soldiers standing in from of ancient buildings that go back to Bible times.

Even the controversal book of Genesis can be confirmed by Science to be true. For example, the Bible begins with: "In the beginning". Science confirms that the world has a beginning and a end. We read about how: "the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep". The Ruin-Reconstruction theory says that this is exactly what happens. Destruction on the earth often comes from a Volcano and the dust is so thick that there is darkness on the earth. It is said that at one time a comet hit the earth and raised a lot of dust so that darkness covered the earth and there was a lot of destruction. A lot of the different species at the time went extinct. Often these is followed by a population explosion or radiation.

There is endless empirical evidence that can be used to show the Bible is true. Evidence that stands on it's own merit. If people want to accept it or not there is still all the evidence they will ever need. But the Bible says we have to seek after these things.

Luke 11:9-10
"And I say to you, ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you. [10] "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it shall be opened.

Empirical evidence is even subjective. As the cartoon illustrates, the conclusions are drawn from the facts, and I think that it's safe to say that two people can look at the facts and draw two different conclusions from them (whether they even remotely have religious implications or not).

For example, I could read the Bible and hear about the figure Pilate and then later find his name inscribed in stone. This may not be the same Pilate (unlikely) or it may be a fake. I merely choose to believe that science has arrived at a conclusion to support the historical validity of the Bible in this case. If you want other examples, just dig up some stuff on them. I'm sure the info's out there. I really don't want to spend a lot of time searching today to cover old material that I've already paged through.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Nechunya ben HaKanah a Hebrew commentator on Genesis wrote more than 2000 years ago that the 42 lettered name of God had within it the answer to the age of the universe. His successor, Rabbi Yitzhak deMin Acco insisted that the 42 lettered name of God alluded to the 42,000 divine years which transpired between the beginning of creation and that of man. If a day is as a 1000 years to God, he concluded that a divine year, is 365 1/4 x 1,000 or 365,250 of our own years. Thus the time between the beginning of creation and the creation of man is 42,000 x 365,250 which equals 15.34 billion years! Pretty amazing HUH! And to think a bunch of dumb Jews had it figured out a long time ago.
Scientists have measured the age of the universe and have concluded that the relationship between time near the beginning of the Big Bang and time today, is one million million. As the universe expands, time and its relationship to it would increase, right? If you viewed the six days of creation in the transmitting of time as we see today, the first day, would have been 8 billion years long. The second 24hr day period, would be experienced by us as 4 billion years. The 3rd as 2 billion. The 4th as 1 billion. The 5th as a 1/2 billion. The 6th as a of a 1/4 billion. So adding 8 + 4 + 2 + 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 equals 15 3/4 billion years! Pretty much the same as cosmologists agree.

There's also a NASA/ scientist/ evolutionist connection here. Humm, I wonder where they got that number from! Well as the story goes, NASA was researching the age of the universe when one scientist recalled that some ancient Hebrew writings might have a clue. This is the document they used to confirm there own anomolies in there research, which then dated the age of the universe to some 13 billion years, after that they dated the age to 15 billion years.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

On top of that, Biblical Archaeology, which once was suspect to the scientific mind, has confirmed time and again that the evidence it provides is valid.

Many People mentioned in the OT are confirmed in sources outside the Bible. These are but a few of a much greater list. Modern Archeology has disputed many arguments of fable labeled on the Bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The palace at Jericho where Eglon, king of Moab, was assassinated by Ehud (Judges 3:15-30).

The Temple of Baal/El-Berith in Shechem, where funds were obtained to finance Abimelech's kingship and where the citizens of Shechem took refuge when Abimelech attacked the city (Judges 9:4, 46-49).

The east gate of Shechem where Gaal and Zebul watched the forces of Abimelech approach the city (Judges 9:34-38).

The pool of Gibeon where the forces of David and Ishbosheth fought during the struggle for the kingship of Israel (2 Samuel 2:12-32).

The Pool of Samaria where King Ahab's chariot was washed after his death (1 Kings 22:29-38).

The royal palace at Samaria where the kings of Israel lived (1 Kings 20:43- 22:39; 2 Kings 1:2; 15:25).

THE MOABITE STONE also called the MESHA STELE: Is a basalt stone, bearing an inscription of King Mesha, the king of Moab, which was discovered at Dibon, Jordan, in 1868. It is 3 1/2 feet high, 2 feet wide, consisting of 34 lines, written in Hebrew-Phoenician characters. It was erected in about 850 B.C. by King Mesha as a record and memorial. This inscription corroborates the history of King Mesha recorded in 2 Kings 3:4-27. When the Moabite Stone was found, it proved as the Bible stated, that David conquered Moab, that Solomon held Moab, and that Moab broke free at the outset of the divided kingdom.

The pool of Siloam inscription was discovered in 1880 at the sight of the pool of Siloam. The inscription and can be found at the Istanbul Archaeological Museum in Turkey. It reads: “The account of break-through is as follows. While the tunnelers were working with their picks, each toward the other, and while there was still 5 feet of rock to go through, the rock split to the south and to the north, and the voices of each were heard calling one to another. And at that moment the laborers broke through striking pick against pick. Then the water began to flow from the spring to the pool for a distance of 1,900 feet. And the height of the tunnel above the heads of the laborers was 160 feet.†The pool of Siloam was originally constructed by King Hezekiah who ruled from 716-687 B.C. as recorded in 2 Kings 20:20 & 2 Chronicles 32:30.

The Shebna Lintel or Shebaniah, royal steward of Hezekiah: only the last two letters of a name survive, but the title of his position ("over the house" of the king) and the date indicated by the script style, have inclined many scholars to identify the person it refers to with Shebna, found in 2 Ki 18:18- 19:2 & in Isaiah.

The Pool of Heshbon, likened to the eyes of the Shulammite woman (Song of Songs 7:4).

The royal palace in Babylon where King Belshazzar held the feast and Daniel interpreted the handwriting on the wall (Daniel 5).

The royal palace in Susa where Esther was queen of the Persian king Xerxes (Esther).

The royal gate at Susa where Mordecai, Esther's cousin, sat (Esther).

The Square in front of the royal gate at Susa where Mordecai met with Halthach, Xerxes' eunuch (Esther 4:6).


Biblical figures identified in contemporary sources.
----------------------------------------------------

Ahab, king of Israel: Mentioned extensively in Kings and Chronicles. Identified in the contemporary Kurkh Monolith inscription of Shalmaneser III which describes the Battle of Qarqar and mentions 2,000 chariots, 10,000 soldiers of Ahab defeated by Shalmaneser.

Ahaz (Jehoahaz), king of Judah: Mentioned extensively in Kings, Chronicles and Isaiah as well as in Hosea 1:1 and Micah 1:1. Identified in the Summary Inscription of Tiglath-Pileser III which records that he received tribute from Jehoahaz the Judahite, as mentioned in 2 Kings 16:7-8 and 2 Chronicles 28:21. Also identified in a contemporary clay bulla, reading of Ahaz [son of] Jotham king of Judah. Another bulla reading of Ushna servant of Ahaz is likely a reference to King Ahaz as well.

Apries (Hophra), pharaoh of Egypt: Mentioned in Jeremiah 44:30. Identified in numerous contemporary inscriptions including the columns of The palace of Apries. Mentioned by Herodotus in his Histories II, pg 161-171.

Ashurbanipal (Asenappar/Sardanapalus), king of Assyria: Mentioned in Ezra 4:10. Identified in numerous contemporary inscriptions including one listing Manasseh king of Judah amongst the kings who had brought him gifts and aided his conquest of Egypt. His inscriptions tell of his conquest of Elam and Babylon which accords with Ezra 4:9-10 where people that he exiled from these regions are mentioned. Diodorus Siculus also preserved a fanciful account of him through Ctesias (book II, 21).

Cyaxares (Achiachar/Ahasuerus), ally of Nebuchadnezzar (also found in in Tobit) and father of Darius the Mede (in Daniel)

Jedidiah the name given to Solomon by the prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:25

Sanballat, governor of Samaria the leading figure of the opposition which Nehemiah encountered during the rebuilding of the walls around the temple in Jerusalem.

Azaliah, scribe in the Temple in Jerusalem: Mentioned in 2 Kings 22:3 and 2 Chronicles 34:8. A bulla reading Azaliah son of Meshullam is likely to be his.

Azariah, grandfather of Ezra: Mentioned in 1 Chronicles 6:13,14; 9:11 and Ezra 7:1. A bulla reading Azariah son of Hilkiah is likely to be his.

Baruch, scribe of the prophet Jeremiah: Mentioned in Jeremiah (and in Baruch). A clay bulla found in 1975 reading of Berechiah son of Neriah the scribe is likely his. The name translated Berachiah consists of the Hebrew letters of the name Baruch with the Tetragrammaton appended.

Hilkiah, high priest in the Temple in Jerusalem: Mentioned throughout 2 Kings 22:8-23:24 and 2 Chronicles 34:9-35:8 as well as in 1 Chronicles 6:13; 9:11 and Ezra 7:1. The clay bulla naming a Hilkiah as the father of an Azariah, as well as another bulla reading Hanan
son of Hilkiah the priest are likely to be references to him.

Meshullam, father of Azaliah the scribe: Mentioned in 2 Kings 22:3. The contemporary bulla naming Meshullam as the father of an Azaliah is likely to be a reference to him.


Engraved Images found representing Biblical figures:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shishak, the Egyptian king who plundered the Temple during the reign of Rehoboam (1 Kings 14:25-26). Recorded on the walls of the Temple of Amun in Thebes, Egypt.

Jehu, king of Israel, who took power in a bloody coup; having the only surviving likeness of a king of Israel or Judah (2nd Kings 9:1-10:36).

Hazael, king of Aram, enemy of Israel (1st & 2nd Kings & Amos 1:4).

Tiglath-Pileser III, king of Assyria, who invaded Israel (2nd Kings, 1st & 2nd Chronicles).

Sargon II, king of Assyria, who defeated Ashdod and completed the siege of Samaria and took Israelites into captivity (Isaiah 20:1), recorded on his palace walls.

Siege of Lachish by Sennacherib (2 Kings 18:14, 17), as recorded on the Lachish reliefs.

Sennacherib, king of Assyria, who attacked Judah but was unable to capture Jerusalem (2 Kings 18:13-19:37), as recorded on the Taylor Prism.

Tirhakah, king of Egypt, who opposed Sennacherib (2 Kings 19:9).

Assassination of Sennacherib by his own sons (2 Kings 19:37), as recorded in the annals of his son Esarhaddon.

Esarhaddon, king of Assyria, who succeeded his father Sennacherib (2 Kings 19:37).

Fall of Nineveh as predicted by the prophets Nahum and Zephaniah (2:13-15), recorded on the Tablet of Nabopolasar.

Merodach-baladan, king of Babylon, whose messengers Hezekiah showed the royal treasury, much to the indignation of Isaiah (2 Kings 20:12-19).

Fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon (2 Kings 24:10-14), as recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles.

Captivity of Jehoiachin, king of Judah, in Babylon (2 Kings 24:15-16), as recorded on the Babylonian Ration Records.

Fall of Babylon to the Medes and Persians (Daniel 5:30-31), as recorded on the Cyrus Cylinder.

Freeing of captives in Babylon by Cyrus the Great (Ezra 1:1-4; 6:3-4), as recorded on the Cyrus Cylinder.

Xerxes I, king of Persia, who made Esther his queen (Esther; Ezra 4:6).

Darius I, king of Persia, who allowed the returning exiles to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (Ezra 4:24-6:15; Haggai 1:1&15).

 

[blunthitta4life]

The Bible contains numerical constants PI & E, and other mathematical and geometric constants!
http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/index.htm
http://members.home.nl/frankcolijn/fran ... ndexEN.htm
http://members.home.nl/frankcolijn/fran ... agoras.htm
http://members.home.nl/frankcolijn/fran ... e_time.htm

http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenki ... Princs.htm

You should probably use different sources... those websites aren't credible in the least. They are obviously bias and there's nothing scientific in them.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Well, I don't believe that, math is a universal constant. Bias? Maybe we should just take Jesus out of the Bible anytime we mention science, HUH? These BELIEVERS sites should be praised for giving us solid proof not opinions or feelings, that God provided evidence of his omniscience, omnipotence, & omnipresents from the beginning of time and in his creation. Without a doubt, mathematical universal constants such as PI, E, A, Pythagoras Formula, and quite a few others can easily be seen from scripture!

Isn't it funny critics dismiss this kind of evidence just because we believe in his WORD! Yet even a child could see we get PI from two simple numbers. 22 hebrew symbol letters (w/o sophits) divided by the number of completeness (the days of creation) 7. Bam, there you have it! And don't let any UNBIASED SCIENTIST tell you the hebrews only used 3 as PI, thats a total lie and a fabrication of his AWESOME WORD!

Job 26:7 He stretched out the north over the empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

 

[Barbarian]

Pi cannot be obtained by dividing any integer by any other integer.

That's why it's called an irrational number. It cannot be expressed as a ratio.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Pi cannot be obtained by dividing any integer by any other integer.
That's why it's called an irrational number. It cannot be expressed as a ratio.

Well PI cannot be obtained then, since you can't measure it either! If it could be expressed as 2 rational numbers, what would they be? Tell me what 2 rational numbers used in a mathematical formula can! Ancient peoples knew this! 22/7 was the closest thing to it. People back then had no more idea what the true measure of PI was back then, than we do now! This formula was there measure of it, there way of expressing it in rational understandable terms. The Bible knew this, and the measure of PI to 5 significant digits is more than enough accuracy even by today's standard for most everything. You can't build 5-6 sided pyramids with concave faces, pointing to the celestial north pole without it! Isaiah 19:19-20. Also the 1 Kings 7:23 mess scientist come up with is a total joke! Maimonides the Jewish Sage (1135-1204) makes the astounding statement in response to the pi-conundrum of First Kings, "The ratio [we know as pi] cannot be known. Since it is impossible to arrive at a perfectly accurate ratio." The irrationality of PI wasn't proven until 1761! On top of that I could show you at least 1 maybe 2 more instances of PI in the Bible off the top of my head! Your statement is misleading!

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Pi cannot be obtained by dividing any integer by any other integer.
That's why it's called an irrational number. It cannot be expressed as a ratio.

If it could be expressed as 2 rational numbers, what would they be?

If pigs could fly, how fast would they fly?

Tell me what 2 rational numbers used in a mathematical formula can!

Four and nine come to mind. Four can be expressed as 8/2, and 9 as 27/3.

Ancient peoples knew this! 22/7 was the closest thing to it.

Hardly. Aryhbhata, in the 5th century, showed that 62832/20000 was more accurate, for example. In the same century, Zu Chongzhi showed that it was between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Well, Barb you just complicated the issue! 22/7 are to numbers people can understand and give a reasonable approximation.

Pi cannot be obtained by dividing any integer by any other integer.
That's why it's called an irrational number. It cannot be expressed as a ratio.

Exactly, so unless you hit it right on to the last digit, (which is impossible) its still just an approximation. Why do you think Maimondes called it a ratio?
Why do you give Aryhbhata information showed as a ratio?

Four and nine come to mind. Four can be expressed as 8/2, and 9 as 27/3.

These are Approximations and aren't even close!

Aryhbhata, in the 5th century, showed that 62832/20000 was more accurate, for example. In the same century, Zu Chongzhi showed that it was between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927.

Well, at least you did your homework on the issue, but the fact remains 22/7 is the most understandable, easiest to use set of numbers to find PI without using an abacus or circular logic!

PI can't be approximated, but reasonably assessed as a ratio. Yes or No?

 

[tim-from-pa]

While everyone is debating about PI, I discovered years ago on my own that the ratio 355/113 is very close to PI. That's even closer and easier than the 62832/20000 mentioned.

Instead of debating this, why not try to find something with as few digits as possible that expressed the ratio? Although I think my 355/113 is better than most estimates, I must agree with Doppleganger (being a math minor myself) that 22/7 is a reasonable approximation if we are to use one or two digit number approximations.

The Bible clearly shows its understanding of the value of PI. e.g. 1Kings 7:23.

 

[Barbarian]

Well, Barb you just complicated the issue! 22/7 are to numbers people can understand and give a reasonable approximation.

3.14 is a reasonable approximation. But it's not Pi.

Barbarian observes:
Pi cannot be obtained by dividing any integer by any other integer.
That's why it's called an irrational number. It cannot be expressed as a ratio.

Exactly, so unless you hit it right on to the last digit, (which is impossible) its still just an approximation. Why do you think Maimondes called it a ratio?

Perhaps you don't know what "ratio" means. A rational number is a number which can be expressed as the ratio of two other integers. Hence, Pi cannot be a ratio.

(Barbarian asked which numbers can be expressed as ratios)
Four and nine come to mind. Four can be expressed as 8/2, and 9 as 27/3.

These are Approximations and aren't even close!

Wrong. 8/2 is exactly 4. 27/3 is exactly 9.

Ancient peoples knew this! 22/7 was the closest thing to it.

Barbarian points out that this is wrong:
Aryhbhata, in the 5th century, showed that 62832/20000 was more accurate, for example. In the same century, Zu Chongzhi showed that it was between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927.

(sound of goalposts being frantically repositioned)

Well, at least you did your homework on the issue, but the fact remains 22/7 is the most understandable, easiest to use set of numbers to find PI without using an abacus or circular logic!

Zu's method requires neither. And, of course, your origional point is wrong. The ancients knew much closer approximations than the Bible's. The Bible mentions 3 and 22/7 as the value of Pi in different places.

PI can't be approximated, but reasonably assessed as a ratio.

I'm pleased that you now agree.