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Eternal Forknowledge

E

Elijah674

Guest
Rom. 4
17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Think about that! Of ALL OF THOSE NATIONS, one thinks that maybe one individual person, or that even your profession is unknown to God?? Hardly!
Eccl. 12:13-14.

There is not any way to be as God is.. (cannot lie!) and do this above, without knowing ETERNITY in every detail! And the reason for His Prophecy is for 'you' to know that FACT + what is [CONDITIONALLY COMING]!
(Obey or dis/Obey)

And to think that when one is Led of God (as in Rom. 8:14) that they are free to always choose their 'own' profession?!:screwlooseJosh. 24:15, Deut. 30:19. And.. Free/will yes, but we need to understand thatGod COMES FIRST! Everything must be God Ordained! That is what the Altar was for! Thy WILL BE DONE, Christ taught us to pray!
 
God's Foreknowledge is based upon His Predetermined counsel, that is He foreknows because He determined it acts 2:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
 
Rom. 4
17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Think about that! Of ALL OF THOSE NATIONS, one thinks that maybe one individual person, or that even your profession is unknown to God?? Hardly!
Eccl. 12:13-14.

There is not any way to be as God is.. (cannot lie!) and do this above, without knowing ETERNITY in every detail! And the reason for His Prophecy is for 'you' to know that FACT + what is [CONDITIONALLY COMING]!
(Obey ordis/Obey)

And to think that when one is Led of God (as in Rom. 8:14) that they are free to always choose their 'own' profession?!:screwlooseJosh. 24:15, Deut. 30:19. And.. Free/will yes, but we need to understand thatGod COMES FIRST! Everything must be God Ordained! That is what the Altar was for! Thy WILL BE DONE, Christ taught us to pray!

Hello Elijah674,

I do find it difficult to follow your reasoning (forgive me), however your subject heading shows that your point is in relation to 'Foreknowledge'.

Let's take a look at how that word is used elsewhere in the Word of God to fully understand how the Holy Spirit applies it,

'I say then, Hath God cast away his people?
God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias?
how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,' (Rom 11:1,2)

* The word translated 'foreknowledge' here is 'proginosko', meaning 'to know beforehand', that is to 'foresee'.

Paul said in Act 26:5, concerning his fellow Jews,

'Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify,
that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.'

'For whom he did foreknow,
he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.' (Rom 8:29)

'Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold,
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,'(1Pet 1:18-20)

'Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before,
beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked,
fall from your own stedfastness.' (2Pet. 3:17)

Gr. Prognosis 'Foreknowledge

'Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken,
and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:' (Act 2:23)

'Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.' (1Pet. 1:2)

----------------------------------

It is because God has foreknowledge, that He is able to predetermine certain things concerning those who will be redeemed according to His grace.

If you look at the use of the word predestinate (which means 'to limit in advance'), especially in Romans 8:29, but also in Acts 4:28; Rom. 8:30; 1 Cor. 2:7 (transl. 'ordained' or 'pre-ordained') Eph. 1:5 and 11; you will see that it is used in relation to those things which 'accompany salvation' but not 'salvation' itself.

The things 'pre-destination' relates to, are determined according to God's own council. Neither are they in any way open to freedom of choice. Such as being 'conformed to the image of His Son', 'adoption', 'inheritance' or the Divinely predetermined action by Herod etc., in the apprehension, committal and death of our Lord.

Thank you for this Elijah674, it has been very thought provoking.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Wings
 
Last edited by a moderator:
God's Foreknowledge is based upon His Predetermined counsel, that is He foreknows because He determined it acts 2:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 2:22-23 NLT
22 “People of Israel, listen! God publicly endorsed Jesus the Nazarene by doing powerful miracles, wonders, and signs through him, as you well know. 23 But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him.
 
God's Foreknowledge is based upon His Predetermined counsel, that is He foreknows because He determined it acts 2:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Savedbygrace,

On the contrary, God's predetermined counsel, is based on his FOREKNOWLEDGE.

In Christ Jesus our Lord
Wings
 
Savedbygrace,

On the contrary, God's predetermined counsel, is based on his FOREKNOWLEDGE.

In Christ Jesus our Lord
Wings


Correct, forknowledge of Eternal Covenant CONDITIONS!;)
 
Correct, forknowledge of Eternal Covenant CONDITIONS!;)

Christ was the Surety of the Eternal Covenant, and He met all the conditions and stipulations the Father gave Him, and so He bequeaths all the benefits upon the Heirs of promise, all those He died for.
 
Christ was the Surety of the Eternal Covenant, and He met all the conditions and stipulations the Father gave Him, and so He bequeaths all the benefits upon the Heirs of promise, all those He died for.

The ones that He is a High Priest to, up until He rises up, huh? Dan. 12:1-2
 
The ones that He is a High Priest to, up until He rises up, huh? Dan. 12:1-2

'And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.' (Daniel 12:1,2)

Hi Elijah674,

Why do you quote Daniel 12:1,2 in relation to the Church? For it is obviously the angel Michael (who represents Israel as a nation), who is being spoken of here.


The presence of Michael the Archangel is always associated with resurrection (Dan. 12:1; 1 Thess. 4:16; Jude 9), or spiritual war (Dan. 10:13; Jude 9; Rev. 12:7). It is utterly impossible to read into any of these passages 'the hope of the Church of the one Body' (of which our risen Lord is the Head), introduced in Ephesians. The Thessalonians knew nothing of such a company, but were clearly told that they belonged to that part of God's purpose connected with the rise of 'the man of sin'. Matthew 24 and 1 and 2 Thessalonians are intimately connected. Michael stand for Israel. Years after he had written 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Paul could say,' For the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain (Acts 28:20). The hope entertained throughtout the period covered by the Acts is this hope of Israel.


In Christ Jesus
Wings
 
'And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.' (Daniel 12:1,2)

Hi Elijah674,

Why do you quote Daniel 12:1,2 in relation to the Church? For it is obviously the angel Michael (who represents Israel as a nation), who is being spoken of here.


The presence of Michael the Archangel is always associated with resurrection (Dan. 12:1; 1 Thess. 4:16; Jude 9), or spiritual war (Dan. 10:13; Jude 9; Rev. 12:7). It is utterly impossible to read into any of these passages 'the hope of the Church of the one Body' (of which our risen Lord is the Head), introduced in Ephesians. The Thessalonians knew nothing of such a company, but were clearly told that they belonged to that part of God's purpose connected with the rise of 'the man of sin'. Matthew 24 and 1 and 2 Thessalonians are intimately connected. Michael stand for Israel. Years after he had written 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Paul could say,' For the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain (Acts 28:20). The hope entertained throughtout the period covered by the Acts is this hope of Israel.


In Christ Jesus
Wings

The Arch/angel is [an angel] for the saved ones as their High Priest??:screwloose Not hardly! And Arch/Angel means that this is a created being as you see it? That too is flawed J.H.W. stuff! Christ Michael is the COMMANDER CHRIST GOD OVER the Universe, and is called the Arch/Angel in meaning as such.

NO. You need to do some serious study of what takes place when Christ concludes His High Priestly work as the verse implies! ALL PROBATION CLOSES! And this IS the time of its near FINISHED work of His. Matt. 24:21 excellerates quickly as ALL PROBATION CLOSES!
 
'And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.' (Daniel 12:1,2)

Hi Elijah674,

Why do you quote Daniel 12:1,2 in relation to the Church? For it is obviously the angel Michael (who represents Israel as a nation), who is being spoken of here.


The presence of Michael the Archangel is always associated with resurrection (Dan. 12:1; 1 Thess. 4:16; Jude 9), or spiritual war (Dan. 10:13; Jude 9; Rev. 12:7). It is utterly impossible to read into any of these passages 'the hope of the Church of the one Body' (of which our risen Lord is the Head), introduced in Ephesians. The Thessalonians knew nothing of such a company, but were clearly told that they belonged to that part of God's purpose connected with the rise of 'the man of sin'. Matthew 24 and 1 and 2 Thessalonians are intimately connected. Michael stand for Israel. Years after he had written 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Paul could say,' For the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain (Acts 28:20). The hope entertained throughtout the period covered by the Acts is this hope of Israel.


In Christ Jesus
Wings

Correct.
 
wings:

Hi Elijah674,

Why do you quote Daniel 12:1,2 in relation to the Church? For it is obviously the angel Michael (who represents Israel as a nation), who is being spoken of here.

Israel [God's Chosen People] is the Church, the seed of Abraham gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is a nation 1 pet 2:

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Daniel spoke in terms relevant for his times, so God's people would have been the seed of Abraham, Israel..which is the same as the Church, The Israel of God..
 
wings:



Israel [God's Chosen People] is the Church, the seed of Abraham gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is a nation 1 pet 2:

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Daniel spoke in terms relevant for his times, so God's people would have been the seed of Abraham, Israel..which is the same as the Church, The Israel of God..

Hello Savedbygrace,

You have quoted from Galatians 3:29, and from 1 Peter 2. Galatians was written before the setting aside of Israel in unbelief at the end of the Acts period. And Peter wrote to the dispersal, those of Israel and Gentiles grafted in to form a remnant. Those were the Israel of God.

You obviously identify yourself with the olive tree of Israel, those grafted in to Israel and which formed the remnant during the Acts period.

* However a new revelation was made to Paul at the end of the Acts period, which He was particularly chosen to administer and make known, which concerns the church which is Christ's body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all, see Ephesians 1:22,23. This is a company separate from Israel, a company in which Israel has no place of privelage, and all are united in Christ Jesus their Lord and Head. This is not the Israel of God, and are not blessed through Abraham as the former company were, for the blessings of this company are all 'spiritual' in nature, and are to be enjoyed in resurrection life, in heavenly places (see Ephesians).

(This truth is made known in Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon) - those epistles written by Paul after receiving the revelation from God concerning it.

This is the company that I personally identify with, and the truth I rejoice in.

* this is not something I am prepared to debate.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head

Wings
 
Our God Is Omnipresent + Omnipotense

But First one has Got to Have the Holy Spirit in the first place! Acts 5:32 & John 3:3-8 Note a few verses of interest to these ones:

Rom. 8
[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.


Rev. 2:23 in part.
'.... and know that I am He which searcheth the reigns and the hearts:and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.'

And Heb. 4 is surely Documentation of these ones God.
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.]
[13] Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


And the prayers of the ones who teach openly & knowingly against our Lords WORD?? Psalms 66 Documents this clearly!
[18] If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (read that again! This sin of 1 John 3:4 was only held in the heart & mind! Like lust & hate)

And Christ in Matt. 5 puts this satanic foolishness to rest! And in Isa. 42:21 we see how He was prophesied to 'Magnify His Eternal Law & Made it honorable'. But again GOD READS EVERY ONES MOTIVES OF THE HEART AS AN OPEN BOOK that is Recorded as such to see if we are safe to save or not!! Nah. 1:9 And that He knew in Eternity, but the records are for future Judgement made for 'us' & the Universe who can not READ anothers Heart, Mind or Motives!

[27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


What one best make sure of, is why they do not Believe in the God that only needed to Speak the Worlds into existance, and as Job say's that He hung the earth on NOTHING! And that He is as Stated & DOCUMENTED ABOVE, OMISICENT! The answer surely is found in Heb. 10..

[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16]
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;



---Elijah
 

Eternal Forknowledge? It seems like we have been pretty much told what takes place here!

Some thoughts found are Vital as 'i' see it. First take note that the Holy Spirit was the active God as omnipresent here before Adam lost his domain. Also note that Christ God was the Word who spake. And next note that Their creation was very Good, PERFECT, unless one thinks that the Godhead creates flawed merchandise!

And be sure to notice the division of a day with only sunset starting the day, until sunset again ending the day, dividing them for one day.

Gen.1

[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
[6] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
[9] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[11] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[13] And the evening and the morning were the third day.
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[19] And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[26] And God said, Let us make man in [our image, after our likeness:] and let them have dominionover the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

OK: This was before sin. But what was wrong with the heavens & earth + man & the Godheads creation while each time that They pronounced VERY GOOD! And if man had not sinned, this was the perfect creation that would have been in Eternity forward! Nothing needed to be Born Again, or Recreated for it was ALL FLAWLESS!

NOW: We see in Rev. 21 a New Heaven & a New Earth, and in Eccl. 3:15 we see Nothing New referring to Salvation issues. So what is New? The First created Heaven & Earth, + Adam & Eve were VERY GOOD, [[before sin]] took over. And wherever sin has contaminated, it will be destroyed & be recreated flawless again! But a new thing in what way?? (or do you say that they were all flawed from the start! as satan's lie of Gen. 3)

2 Peter 3 finds the same Truth, yet, the Inspiration does not tell us in the sense of todays ones that the New Heaven +, will be different than what the First Created VERY GOOD ONE was, mankind included!
Sometimes we might just be helping satan, by teaching that the Godhead created a faulty creation! Even to the point of Flesh & Blood not entering into the New Jerusalem? What was NOT VERY GOOD with Adam's & Eve's flesh and Blood before sin?? God did say that EVERYTHING WAS VERY GOOD!

[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (Again, God's First Flawless creation would have been IN ETERNITY needing nothing, if not for the cancer of sin!)

[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
[14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.


--Elijah

 
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