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Bible Study Faith alone, and this is why...

Dave...

Member
We are saved by the "righteousness of God", nothing else. If you have sinned one time while being under the law, you are destined for hell unless you have the imputed "righteousness of God".

The only way to have the "righteousness of God' imputed is by faith Alone. The works are a result of being in Christ, not the cause of it. Once one makes works the cause he has "not submitted to the righteousness of God" and has given evidence that he is under the law.

Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vainâ€â€if indeed it was in vain?5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.†7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.†9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 10:9 If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED.

If we sin once, we are guilty of all. We cannot be made righteous before God by our own merits because we have already failed and all the good deads in the world will not remove the penalty of death that results from being found guilty from that one sin. If we sin once, we are found guilty of all and are hell bound, unless, we, through faith, are imputed with the righteousness of God. If we have sinned once, then by God's law, we are guilty and no good works can overcome this.

Our works are an evidence, always. It is only faith that can save us, because it is only by faith that we can receive the imputed righteousness of God. If we have sinned once we are guilty of all.

James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

God, by His mercy, He provided a way, an advocate.

1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath ***once*** suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God."

1 Peter 2:24 "Who [Jesus] his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness."

Jesus suffered God's wrath that was due to us. He went to the cross sinless, the only substitute that was acceptable to God, the perfect Lamb of God.

Paul tells us...

Romans 3:28,31 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law...Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

What Paul is saying is that God's justice, His law, required payment for our sin, and the law is not made void, but established because Jesus died for us. If their was no law, Jesus would not have needed to die for us.

Faith results in us receiving the righteousness of God. The righteousness of God is Jesus' imputed righteousness.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

But the law does not go away for those NOT in Christ, they will be judged by the Law. We are "in Christ", so we are not under the Law, but grace.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Those who think that they can overcome God's wrath by any means other than the righteousness of God alone, which is through faith alone, are giving evidence that they are still under the law.

Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us."

Galatians 2:16 "By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Only the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD can save you.

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just[ified] shall live by faith." See Hebrews 11

Romans 4:1-5 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Again, if you trust in your works you will hear "Depart from Me, I never knew you", because...

Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

This is our righteousness absent of the righteousness of God.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

From the same book, speaking of the righteousness of God which justifies.

Isaiah 54:17 No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me,†Says the LORD.

Isaiah 61:10 10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Ephesians 2:8-10 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 5:1 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
 
Dave... said:
We are saved by the "righteousness of God", nothing else.

Absolutely correct....no one else can save...

If you have sinned one time while being under the law, you are destined for hell unless you have the imputed "righteousness of God".

That is not true.....

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Jer 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

To suggest that God will not forgive a repentent heart is simply false...even if you obey Torah.

The only way to have the "righteousness of God' imputed is by faith Alone. The works are a result of being in Christ, not the cause of it.

This is not completely true......You do the commandments because God demands, it and Christ commands it. Observing the commandments (or trying to) shows God that you are obedient to him by following the living example Christ lead. Yes, you should have faith that God will save you....if you strive to do what is right, and repent when you have sinned, you are (or will be) righteous....

Once one makes works the cause he has "not submitted to the righteousness of God" and has given evidence that he is under the law.

That is not true.....Good works shows a righteous intent. And, the term "under the law" is such a crock....making it sound like it's a burden. It's like in the USA, we have speed limit laws....to keep our safety. Is it a burden or are we slaves to the Government because we obey that law? Of course not...the same is true of Torahtic Law....


Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vainâ€â€if indeed it was in vain?5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.†7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.†9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 10:9 If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED.

I can't comment on your verses concerning Paul....Well I can (as I think a case can be made that he may be an Apostate Messianic Mithra Gnostic Pseudojew) but suffice to say that he and the other Apostles didn't teach the same theology.

If we sin once, we are guilty of all. We cannot be made righteous before God by our own merits because we have already failed and all the good deads in the world will not remove the penalty of death that results from being found guilty from that one sin. If we sin once, we are found guilty of all and are hell bound, unless, we, through faith, are imputed with the righteousness of God. If we have sinned once, then by God's law, we are guilty and no good works can overcome this.

I posted the OT verses above refuting your paragraph above....it is Christian myth that if you are guilty of one sin you are guilty of all. Yes, the Torah does give a set of rules to live by and to break one of those rules is a sin, but God always provided a means of achieving forgiveness in the Torah....Shoot, God even forgives without repentence because he is God.

Our works are an evidence, always. It is only faith that can save us, because it is only by faith that we can receive the imputed righteousness of God. If we have sinned once we are guilty of all.

Faith and Works....Works and Faith....the combination of both. Niether exceeds or is in front of the other...

James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

The context of the Chapter is Faith and Works....and still, if you are guilty of the offense, the Law always provides a way for atonement.

God, by His mercy, He provided a way, an advocate.

1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath ***once*** suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God."

1 Peter 2:24 "Who [Jesus] his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness."

Jesus suffered God's wrath that was due to us. He went to the cross sinless, the only substitute that was acceptable to God, the perfect Lamb of God.

Substitute for what? God never required a Human Sacrifice for the remission of sins....In fact, God in the OT abhors human sacrifice. God forgives sins because he is God....

Paul tells us...

That's the problem...Paul tells us....

More importantly, what does Jesus, Moses (the Torah) and the Prophets have to say....


Again, there are too many Paul verses that need commenting on....not enough time to do it......so I'll have to leave it at that....
Romans 3:28,31 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law...Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

What Paul is saying is that God's justice, His law, required payment for our sin, and the law is not made void, but established because Jesus died for us. If their was no law, Jesus would not have needed to die for us.

Faith results in us receiving the righteousness of God. The Righteousness of God is Jesus' imputed righteousness.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

But the law does not go away for those NOT in Christ, they will be judged by the Law. We are "in Christ", so we are not under the Law, but grace.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Those who think that they can overcome God's wrath by any means other than the righteousness of God alone, from faith alone, then they are not saved.

Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us."

Galatians 2:16 "By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

ONLY THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD CAN SAVE YOU.

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just[ified] shall live by faith." See Hebrews 11

Romans 4:1-5 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Again, if you trust in your works you will hear "Depart from Me, I never knew you", because...

Romans 10:3-4 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

This is our righteousness absent of the righteousness of God:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

From the same book, speaking of the righteousness of God which justifies.

Isaiah 54:17 No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me,†Says the LORD.

Isaiah 61:10 10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Sorry, I would have liked to comment more but time constraints will not allow me to.....maybe later.
 
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Jer 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

Thier motives are important. If they did these things to earn salvation, then they have rejected the righteousness of God. If they did these things as a result of faith, then they are under Grace. Faith comes first, and it is of faith that we receive the righteousness of God. See Hebrews 11

George, i'll ask you what Paul asked the Galatians.

Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Righteousness Imputed
http://www.bible-topics.com/Righteousness-Imputed.html

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Romans 3:21-22 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gotta go
 
This is not completely true......You do the commandments because God demands, it and Christ commands it. Observing the commandments (or trying to) shows God that you are obedient to him by following the living example Christ lead. Yes, you should have faith that God will save you....if you strive to do what is right, and repent when you have sinned, you are (or will be) righteous....

George, why does God desire that we give mercy and not sacrifice? Works are done as a result of faith (Hebrews 11), they are not one in the same.

That is not true.....Good works shows a righteous intent. And, the term "under the law" is such a crock....making it sound like it's a burden. It's like in the USA, we have speed limit laws....to keep our safety. Is it a burden or are we slaves to the Government because we obey that law? Of course not...the same is true of Torahtic Law....

George, what if the law said that if you broke the speed limit one time, you would be quilty of breaking it every time, in fact, you would be guilty of breaking every law? And as a result you would spend an eternity in hell. This is how God's law works in the sense of justification. Now, if you already broke the law one time, you have then already failed any attempt to make yourself righteous before God to justify yourself before Him. because God requires perfect obedience, and that's why we need His imputed righteousness, because only Jesus's perfect obedience will be acceptabe. We only need faith to recieve the "righteousness of God, and as a result, the works will follow as an evidence.

I posted the OT verses above refuting your paragraph above....it is Christian myth that if you are guilty of one sin you are guilty of all. Yes, the Torah does give a set of rules to live by and to break one of those rules is a sin, but God always provided a means of achieving forgiveness in the Torah....Shoot, God even forgives without repentence because he is God.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


Hebrews 10

Animal Sacrifices Insufficient

1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:


“ Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have comeâ€â€
In the volume of the book it is written of Meâ€â€
To do Your will, O God.’â€Â



8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them †(which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.†He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,†17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.†18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Hold Fast Your Confession

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

The Just Live by Faith

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.†31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “ For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.â€Â


39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.


Romans 4

Abraham Justified by Faith

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.†4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.â€Â


Abraham Justified Before Circumcision

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

The Promise Granted Through Faith

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nationsâ€Â) in the presence of Him whom he believedâ€â€God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.†19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.â€Â23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
 
Romans 2:25-29 is especially interesting and direct, though often overlooked.

Here uncircumcised Gentiles are admonished to be circumcised of the heart (v. 29) and to become Jews inwardly by keeping "the righteousness of the law" (v. 26) and by fulfilling the law (v. 27). (Obviously Paul could not have meant the full Sinaitic Covenant in his use of the term "law" here, since circumcision was a part of the law.)

Only with God's Holy Spirit, through Christ, can a human being fulfill the righteousness of the law (Rom. 8:4) and "delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Rom. 7:22).
 
Dave, if we are justified by faith alone then how come in the 273 times the NT mentions faith, it never pairs it with the word alone. Woops, my mistake James 2:24 but it's not much help for you in answering the question.
 
thessalonian said:
Dave, if we are justified by faith alone then how come in the 273 times the NT mentions faith, it never pairs it with the word alone. Woops, my mistake James 2:24 but it's not much help for you in answering the question.

Thess. That is a fallacious argument. I could say to you (in another thread of course), "if Jesus is God then how come of the many (I haven't counted) times Jesus is referred to in scripture, he is often referred to as 'the Son of God' and NEVER 'God the son.'

But getting back to the topic. Dave is right. There is no righteousness apart from faith. Oh, there is self righteousness of course but that doesn't count does it. In fact it is a stench in God's nostrils. And that is exactly what trying to attain righteousness by what we do, is.
 
There is no righteousness apart from faith.


I agree 100%. That is not the same as saying that we are righteous by faith alone". Do you see the difference? One cannot perform righteous deeds without faith. But one cannot be said to have faith without righteous deeds as well. "Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom, but those who DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER!". Read also Romans 2:4-8 and Matt 25, sheep and goats. Eph 3:20-21 is my favorite as well.

Rom 2
[4] Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
[5] But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
[6] For he will render to every man according to his works:
[7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
[8] but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.

Eph 3
[20]
Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think,
[21] to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

What is said here and in Matt 25 must be done in faith and that is why there is no righeousness without faith.

Jesus said and did plenty to identify himself as God. Sorry you can't see it.
 
thessalonian said:
Dave, if we are justified by faith alone then how come in the 273 times the NT mentions faith, it never pairs it with the word alone. Woops, my mistake James 2:24 but it's not much help for you in answering the question.

I wonder if what you are looking for is really a debate between synergism vs monergism. That is where the added words might have come from.
 
All good stuff Thess.

What I was endeavouring to do was chime in with the difference between righteousness that is of faith and a 'righteousness' that is of works.

Those who have been credited with righteousness because of their faith will naturally produce righteous deeds.

But those who perform the same deeds in order to gain ‘righteousness’ are not made righteous, as the sheep & goats attest.

But, in regard to Jesus & God issue. It worries me not that you think I am blind. God has opened my eyes to a number of things over the years and I have wondered how it was that I hadn’t ‘seen’ that before and how is it that others hadn’t seen it either. I have to accept as scripture points out that for something to be revealed to me or anyone else, God has to enable the understanding.

Now what I am not saying is that I may change my mind on this particular issue because I know without any shadow of doubt what God has revealed to me.
 
thessalonian said:
God has to enable the understanding.

Yep. If it were any other way, we couldn't claim total salvation by grace.

Yes salvation is indeed a work of God - entirely of His grace. So in that respect I say 'amen'.

May I clarify your wording though? 'total salvation' seems to imply that there is also 'partial salvation'. Is this what you are saying?
 
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