Faith in Christ or the Faith of Christ?

[JamesG]

.
There are a series of verses that relate Justification (being made righteous), faith, and Christ. For example, Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16, Philippians 3:9.

Galatians 2:16:

One view claims that we are made righteous “by faith in Jesus Christ and we believe in Christ Jesus in order to be made righteous in Christâ€. Jesus Christ provides the means to make us righteous. But it is our personal faith in that provision that ultimately makes us righteous. From this perspective, there is an ongoing debate as to whether we are made righteous by faith and works or by faith alone. And there is a more recent debate as to whether or not it is necessary to have faith in Jesus as Lord, in addition to faith in the provision, in order to be made righteous by faith alone. The grammar apologists of this view claim that the Greek phrase translated as “faith in Christ†is a Genitive phrase that can be translated as a subjective Genitive phrase (faith of Christ) or it can be translated as an objective Genitive phrase (faith in Christ). The doctrinal apologists of this view claim that the Bible clearly shows that when properly interpreted the Greek Genitive phrase should be translated as an objective Genitive phrase (faith in Christ), and most modern English Bible translations agree.

Another view claims that we are made righteous “by the faith of Jesus Christ and that we believe into Christ Jesus in order to be made righteous by the faith of Christâ€. Our personal faith in Christ does not make us righteous. Our personal faith into Christ simply puts us into the proper position to be made righteous…in Christ. From this perspective, personal faith and the personal works that express the personal faith are a part of one thing, which through the Spirit puts us into Christ and keeps us in Christ. In this regard, there is an initial experience that is associated with personal faith and at least one work that expresses that faith…water baptism; and there is the continuing experience that is associated with personal faith including such works that express that faith as reading the Bible and the corporate matter called “going to church†and doing good. Being made righteous is achieved neither by our personal faith nor our personal works. Individual Salvation is due to being in Christ, part of which is being made righteous by the faith of Christ and the works of Christ that express the faith of Christ. They point to 1Corinthians 1:30 “But of him (God) you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God, and also righteousness, sanctification, and redemptionâ€. According to the grammar apologists of this view, whenever a Greek Genitive phrase is used in relation to a person, it is always intended to mean possession. Thus to translate a Greek Genitive phrase as an objective Genitive phrase is a misuse of the Greek Genitive phrase in cases such as this. The doctrinal apologists of this view claim that the Bible clearly shows that when properly interpreted the Greek Genitive phrase should be translated as a subjective Genitive phrase (faith of Christ).

The latter view is considered heretical by just about everyone that I have talked to about it. The rest said that they had never heard of such a concept and would look into it and get back to me. So far none of these have gotten back to me.


What are your thoughts?

JamesG

 

[Adullam]

The word for in in greek can also mean "into." So faith becomes effective when it is quickened from above placing us INTO Him. He is then made manifest in us. The NT faith is often called "this faith". Mere belief does not make us a disciple of Christ. We must be quickened by the Spirit and walk in His faith. Our own faith is as a tiny cord that attaches to the larger rope that pulls us under His power. Like a tugboat rescuing a stricken ship at sea. The ship throws out a line, which the tug attaches the tow rope to. Hope that makes sense! :P

 

[Andrew]

The word for in in greek can also mean "into." So faith becomes effective when it is quickened from above placing us INTO Him. He is then made manifest in us. The NT faith is often called "this faith". Mere belief does not make us a disciple of Christ. We must be quickened by the Spirit and walk in His faith. Our own faith is as a tiny cord that attaches to the larger rope that pulls us under His power. Like a tugboat rescuing a stricken ship at sea. The ship throws out a line, which the tug attaches the tow rope to. Hope that makes sense! :P

Excellent answer, great analogy.

 

[glorydaz]

It Is the faith of Jesus that justifies and saves us.
God chose faith as the avenue for receiving His grace.

I always think of Spurgeon's analogy when this subject comes up...two men are being swept down a raging river. A line has been tossed from the shore. Both men grab on, but one sees a big log and lets go of the line to grab the log. The log is not attached to the shore and the man is swept away. The man clinging to the flimsy line is pulled safely ashore.

God has commanded us to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. As we obey, keeping our eyes fixed upon Him, faith is added. He fills us with the fruit of the Holy Spirit, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH."

 

[Vic C.]

The latter view is considered heretical by just about everyone that I have talked to about it. The rest said that they had never heard of such a concept and would look into it and get back to me. So far none of these have gotten back to me.

I never once considered this heretical at all. Plus I'm a bit shocked some had said they never heard of such a belief.

It Is the faith of Jesus that justifies and saves us.
God chose faith as the avenue for receiving His grace.

Amen GD, it is what I believe too. :amen

This is why I lean towards the KJV-based translations:

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[AVBunyan]

Faith “of†vs. Faith “inâ€
The Difference Between Heaven and Hell?

God is very particular about what words he uses when it comes to relating truth to the believer today. Even two letters could make the difference between heaven and hell. Observe how important this is when it comes to the sinner being justified before God. What does the scriptures say about this? Look at the following verse regarding justification.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

This verse declares that man is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. This says that it is Jesus’ faith that justifies not mans’. We also find that the faith is a free gift according to:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So, the faith that we get is Jesus’ faith and it comes as a free gift. It is not just that salvation is a free gift we must remember that the faith that justifies is not even ours.

Why is this important? Today the doctrine of justification and salvation is confused. You ask people this question, “What saved you?†A typical answer is, “My faith in Jesus Christ and what he did at Calvary.†Sounds good but it is wrong. (Now I know what the person probably means and I would not question his testimony based upon that phrase at that moment – I am more understanding than that!) Your faith had nothing to do with your justification. You were justified by the faith of Jesus Christ not your faith. It was Jesus’ faith that took him to Calvary – It was Jesus’ faith that led him to stay on the cross and give up his life for the sinner. God was pleased with Jesus’ faith so God justified the saint on the basis of the faith of Jesus Christ – not ours.

Let’s analyze – if a person says it was his faith in Christ that justifies then he would trust himself and his faith for justification.

Now, let’s bring it on home. Every new translation on the market changes the “of†to “in†wherever the “faith of Jesus Christ†or “faith of†shows up in regards to salvation or the work of Christ. Don’t take my word for it – check it out! You say I am splitting hairs – not so brethren! If you substitute “in†for “of†you have your faith justifying which is doctrinally wrong. Your faith couldn’t save a dead horse but Jesus’ faith could. A subtle change but it does affect sound doctrine regarding a very import doctrine – salvation. One final thought on this - not only are you justified by His faith you also live by His faith (Gal. 2:20)!!!

Let’s wrap it up. Two reasons I brought this out:

1. When you realize that it was not your faith but Jesus’ faith this should give you assurance of both your salvation and your security in your salvation. No more do you have to doubt your salvation because you didn’t have enough faith to believe for your faith had nothing to do with your justification. One would think that Jesus’ faith was good enough for the work of justification.

2. For those who think the newer translations don’t change words that affect doctrine I just showed you one instance where two letter words could make a difference between you going to heaven or going to hell. For if a man trusts his “great†faith to get him to heaven then he missed justification.

Again, I wouldn’t bring this up to those who can only take milk but for those of you who like meat then I trust you would get a blessing from this simple, but important truth if you have not been shown this before. I did not find this truth – it was shown to me and it excited me.

 

[glorydaz]

Faith “of†vs. Faith “inâ€
The Difference Between Heaven and Hell?

God is very particular about what words he uses when it comes to relating truth to the believer today. Even two letters could make the difference between heaven and hell. Observe how important this is when it comes to the sinner being justified before God. What does the scriptures say about this? Look at the following verse regarding justification.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

This verse declares that man is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. This says that it is Jesus’ faith that justifies not mans’. We also find that the faith is a free gift according to:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So, the faith that we get is Jesus’ faith and it comes as a free gift. It is not just that salvation is a free gift we must remember that the faith that justifies is not even ours.

Why is this important? Today the doctrine of justification and salvation is confused. You ask people this question, “What saved you?†A typical answer is, “My faith in Jesus Christ and what he did at Calvary.†Sounds good but it is wrong. (Now I know what the person probably means and I would not question his testimony based upon that phrase at that moment – I am more understanding than that!) Your faith had nothing to do with your justification. You were justified by the faith of Jesus Christ not your faith. It was Jesus’ faith that took him to Calvary – It was Jesus’ faith that led him to stay on the cross and give up his life for the sinner. God was pleased with Jesus’ faith so God justified the saint on the basis of the faith of Jesus Christ – not ours.

Let’s analyze – if a person says it was his faith in Christ that justifies then he would trust himself and his faith for justification.

Now, let’s bring it on home. Every new translation on the market changes the “of†to “in†wherever the “faith of Jesus Christ†or “faith of†shows up in regards to salvation or the work of Christ. Don’t take my word for it – check it out! You say I am splitting hairs – not so brethren! If you substitute “in†for “of†you have your faith justifying which is doctrinally wrong. Your faith couldn’t save a dead horse but Jesus’ faith could. A subtle change but it does affect sound doctrine regarding a very import doctrine – salvation. One final thought on this - not only are you justified by His faith you also live by His faith (Gal. 2:20)!!!

Let’s wrap it up. Two reasons I brought this out:

1. When you realize that it was not your faith but Jesus’ faith this should give you assurance of both your salvation and your security in your salvation. No more do you have to doubt your salvation because you didn’t have enough faith to believe for your faith had nothing to do with your justification. One would think that Jesus’ faith was good enough for the work of justification.

2. For those who think the newer translations don’t change words that affect doctrine I just showed you one instance where two letter words could make a difference between you going to heaven or going to hell. For if a man trusts his “great†faith to get him to heaven then he missed justification.

Again, I wouldn’t bring this up to those who can only take milk but for those of you who like meat then I trust you would get a blessing from this simple, but important truth if you have not been shown this before. I did not find this truth – it was shown to me and it excited me.

:amen :yes

 

[Vic C.]

Hey there AV. I had a strong feeling this topic would make you resurface.

I did not find this truth – it was shown to me and it excited me

It makes my heart "jump of joy"!

 

[LaCrum]

Our personal faith in Christ does not make us righteous.

That just brought to mind these verses:

Romans 3:22

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Romans 4:3

What does the Scriputre say? "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:5

However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4:23-24

The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

In light of these verses, it's hard for me to accept your view, unless I'm interpreting what you're saying wrongly.

 

[AVBunyan]

The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

In light of these verses, it's hard for me to accept your view, unless I'm interpreting what you're saying wrongly.

The issue I am talking about here is justification - Only God can justify - Our faith in Christ cannot declare us justified...only God can do this.

 

[LaCrum]

The issue I am talking about here is justification - Only God can justify - Our faith in Christ cannot declare us justified...only God can do this.

Yes that makes sense then. I suppose in simple terms, we could just say salvation comes from believing God justifies us. Or, righteousness is received from God by the faith that only righteousness can come from God.

 

[Timelord]

.
LaCrum

I think that you intended Rom 3:22, not 3:12, wherein is the same Genitive phrase used in Gal 2:16.

Romans 3:9-21 shows that we don’t even have enough faith to keep the law let alone have enough faith that makes us righteous. And if our faith is the crucial matter, then surely God could help us to keep the law just as easily as he could help us to have faith in Christ that results in our being made righteous. But the keeping the law is insufficient precisely because it requires our own faith, a faith that is not strong enough to do much of anything.

And the same Genitive phrase occurs in Rom 3:26 where it is said that it is God who not only is righteous but makes righteous the one who is out of the faith of Jesus.

Rom 5:1 says that we have peace toward God out of faith through our Lord Jesus Christ. And Rom 5:12-21 that reveals that our righteousness is dependent upon being in Christ.

Rom 8:1 shows that whether or not we are condemned as unrighteous is dependent on out being in Christ, not the strength of our faith in Christ.

Rom 8:2-3 that shows we are made free from the law of sin and death by the law of the Spirit of life that is in Christ.

Abraham’s faith is not in Christ, but in God. So also in our case. Our faith is in God who makes us righteous in Christ. It is not our faith in Christ that makes us righteous. It is our faith in God that does not require a degree of strength, only its presence, for God to put us into Christ. In the case of Abraham, he was not put into Christ. He was simply declared righteous. And as such is an example of believing in God, but not believing into Christ. Evangelical Protestants have taken Paul’s statement that we are children of Abraham and that he is our example of faith to emphasize human faith in Christ. That was not the intention of Paul.

Timelord

 

[JamesG]

.
I have posted the question on the first post on other Christian forums. I have discovered that there actually four ways to answer this question. There are the two that I posted in the first post. Another answer is that both “in†and “of†are true and that it makes no difference whatever which way it is translated. A fourth answer is that the verses in question that have the Genitive phrase may have had a specific meaning when written, but modern grammarians have muddied the waters so that these verses today are meaningless.

Abdullam and Andrew, thanks for sharing, but I’m afraid that I did not understand. Perhaps you could elaborate. Thanks to AVBunyan and Vic C. and Glorydaz for giving the point of view of the KJV only people. I am surprised that the only one who posted in favor of “inâ€, LaCrum, did not bother to answer Timelord who posted an excellent response. I would also like to hear from jasoncran, Mysteryman, Cornelius, and francisdesales (the Catholic point of view I have not heard yet), and others concerning this matter.

Thank You,

JamesG

 

[JamesG]

.
Chestertonrules

As a Catholic, what do think in relation to the subject of this thread?

JamesG

 

[Mysteryman]

.
There are a series of verses that relate Justification (being made righteous), faith, and Christ. For example, Romans 3:22, Galatians 2:16, Philippians 3:9.

Galatians 2:16:

One view claims that we are made righteous “by faith in Jesus Christ and we believe in Christ Jesus in order to be made righteous in Christâ€. Jesus Christ provides the means to make us righteous. But it is our personal faith in that provision that ultimately makes us righteous. From this perspective, there is an ongoing debate as to whether we are made righteous by faith and works or by faith alone. And there is a more recent debate as to whether or not it is necessary to have faith in Jesus as Lord, in addition to faith in the provision, in order to be made righteous by faith alone. The grammar apologists of this view claim that the Greek phrase translated as “faith in Christ†is a Genitive phrase that can be translated as a subjective Genitive phrase (faith of Christ) or it can be translated as an objective Genitive phrase (faith in Christ). The doctrinal apologists of this view claim that the Bible clearly shows that when properly interpreted the Greek Genitive phrase should be translated as an objective Genitive phrase (faith in Christ), and most modern English Bible translations agree.

Another view claims that we are made righteous “by the faith of Jesus Christ and that we believe into Christ Jesus in order to be made righteous by the faith of Christâ€. Our personal faith in Christ does not make us righteous. Our personal faith into Christ simply puts us into the proper position to be made righteous…in Christ. From this perspective, personal faith and the personal works that express the personal faith are a part of one thing, which through the Spirit puts us into Christ and keeps us in Christ. In this regard, there is an initial experience that is associated with personal faith and at least one work that expresses that faith…water baptism; and there is the continuing experience that is associated with personal faith including such works that express that faith as reading the Bible and the corporate matter called “going to church†and doing good. Being made righteous is achieved neither by our personal faith nor our personal works. Individual Salvation is due to being in Christ, part of which is being made righteous by the faith of Christ and the works of Christ that express the faith of Christ. They point to 1Corinthians 1:30 “But of him (God) you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God, and also righteousness, sanctification, and redemptionâ€. According to the grammar apologists of this view, whenever a Greek Genitive phrase is used in relation to a person, it is always intended to mean possession. Thus to translate a Greek Genitive phrase as an objective Genitive phrase is a misuse of the Greek Genitive phrase in cases such as this. The doctrinal apologists of this view claim that the Bible clearly shows that when properly interpreted the Greek Genitive phrase should be translated as a subjective Genitive phrase (faith of Christ).

The latter view is considered heretical by just about everyone that I have talked to about it. The rest said that they had never heard of such a concept and would look into it and get back to me. So far none of these have gotten back to me.


What are your thoughts?

JamesG

Hi JamesG

I notice in one of your last posts , that you requested that I give a response to this thread. I would be glad to give you my undersanding and belief on this subject.

God is the giver in all things. It is God who gave us the Spirit of his Son in our hearts crying Abba , Father. Thus , God saw it in His own , to give us = Christians, the Spirit of his Son, which is Christ in us. Because we have the Spirit of His Son, we then "have" the mind of Christ. This means we also have the faith "of" Christ in us. This is not "our" faith . This is the faith "of" Christ in us.

We do not believe to receive , we believe because we have received.

Our righteousness is not of our doing. We were made righteous by God, in Chirst. The same holds true with justification, and redemption, and sanctification.

The law was righteous, but didn't make any man righteous. For if righteousness came by the law, then there would be no need for God through Christ to make us righteous.

We now are to live by the faith "of" Christ, because we have Christ in us, the hope of glory. It was God who placed us in the body of Christ as it pleases him. This had nothing to do with our own faith. We believe because we were not given the Spirit of fear, but of power, love and of a sound mind.

The seed of Christ in us was made of a promise - Galatians 3:16 - 19

Bless