Faith

[elijah23]

If we repent of our sin, then there is no reason for the Lord to punish us. If there is no reason for the Lord to punish us, then there is nothing to worry about, since the Lord is in control and is taking care of us. Therefore, if we have repented of our sin, we should ignore our worries.

 

[Thirstyone]

If we repent of our sin, then there is no reason for the Lord to punish us. If there is no reason for the Lord to punish us, then there is nothing to worry about, since the Lord is in control and is taking care of us. Therefore, if we have repented of our sin, we should ignore our worries.

I would appreciate scriptures that support that statement.

 

[Danus]

I would appreciate scriptures that support that statement.

Here are a few that more or less support the OP. I typically use the NIV, but in this case I'll go KJ.

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all. (Psalms 34:18-19 KJV)

He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds. (Psalms 147:3 KJV)

If iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away, and let not wickedness dwell in thy tabernacles. For then shalt thou lift up thy face without spot; yea, thou shalt be stedfast, and shalt not fear: (Job 11:14-15 KJV)

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. (Ezekiel 18:21-22 KJV)

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13 KJV)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9 KJV)

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19 KJV)

 

[Thirstyone]

Here are a few that more or less support the OP. I typically use the NIV, but in this case I'll go KJ.

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all. (Psalms 34:18-19 KJV)

He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds. (Psalms 147:3 KJV)

If iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away, and let not wickedness dwell in thy tabernacles. For then shalt thou lift up thy face without spot; yea, thou shalt be stedfast, and shalt not fear: (Job 11:14-15 KJV)



But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. (Ezekiel 18:21-22 KJV)

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13 KJV)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9 KJV)

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19 KJV)

Thank you for posting these scriptures.

 

[ivdavid]

If we repent of our sin, then there is no reason for the Lord to punish us.

While the above statement is true by itself, I'd like to qualify it a bit more. Take my own life for example - till about a couple of years ago, I believed myself to be a staunch Christian, who had repented of my sins, who had faith in Christ and who'd been forgiven by Jesus' death on the cross, and who was trying to walk worthy of the one true holy God.

Then I was regenerated by God.

Now I see that my earlier thinking of myself as a staunch Christian was akin to the self-conceited pharisee. My repentance of my sins was actually a sincerely grieved self-chastisement at having those flaws mar my self-image that fed my self-pride(which again was re-labelled to a harmless 'self-esteem'). My repentance was more of a self-resolved determination(read self-works) to get better at being more self-righteous henceforth.

Of course, all the above was through 'faith' in Christ - where faith was a mere belief in the existence of such a God who would be well pleased with one so earnestly striving for perfection as I - (just not striving so out of a love for God but out of self-love for my own abilities/nature). What reassured me of my salvation was that "I" had faith and that "I" had repented - my faith itself and not Christ was the object of my faith ( a fine line, impossible to discern without the convicting power of God). Resting upon Christ's works is faith - resting upon one's "resting upon Christ" isn't - that's just a pseudo-layer of external dependency created to hold up the actual layer of self-works/self-righteousness.

The forgiveness of my sins was just me being practical about guilt and about moving on with life - the 'there is no use crying over spilt milk' approach. I pronounced myself forgiven by God based on what's written on the Bible - but it was just me forgiving myself rather than actually having the conscience of sins removed supernaturally by God. And my walking worthy of God was just my self-works 'enabled by God alone' where - quoting C.S.Lewis, "I paid a pennyworth of imaginary humility to Him and got out of it a pound's worth of Pride towards my fellow-men." (Wasn't I good enough to choose to accept God's grace towards working out good when so many others aren't doing(read works) so?)

My point is that a statement such as in the OP could lead people to believe that the just wrath of God toward us is averted "because" we have repented or "because" we have believed in His Son. Though true by themselves, such statements could be qualified further. Given that we are led to repentance and are gifted faith "because" God had mercy upon us, qualifying this would uphold the "salvation by grace alone" doctrine. Our faith and repentance are necessary requisites in God's process of working in us unto salvation - but these ought to be qualified as God's work in us and not our own works.

 

[Davies]

ivdavid,

My first thought was alarm, because I didn't know what was meant by the word repentance by elijah23. After all, who could repent enough? Unless you included a genuine trust in Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection, repentance is left to self-righteousness. I think you stated it better than I could.

- Davies

 

[cgl1023]

If we repent of our sin, then there is no reason for the Lord to punish us. If there is no reason for the Lord to punish us, then there is nothing to worry about, since the Lord is in control and is taking care of us. Therefore, if we have repented of our sin, we should ignore our worries.

In the scenario you describe, there would have been no exercise of faith . Look at Heb 11:6 -- But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. God doesn't involve Himself if there is not faith. For example, people are not entitled to God's provision because they need it or because they want it. They are entitled to His blessing only thru the exercise of their faith.

 

[wayseer]

I don't think the OP is not about faith at all - it's about acceptance.

The hardest thing for us humans to do is to accept God' grace without turning it into a bargaining chip. It's when we start playing with the bargaining chip that we become worried - are we really really saved?

 

[Davies]

How does a person know when he has repented enough?

- Davies

 

[wayseer]

How does a person know when he has repented enough?

- Davies

See what I mean?

Would you like it that you needed to beat yourself to a pulp before God will accept you?

This is nothing more than trying to force you way into the Kingdom of God.

Acceptance is better and there is less blood lying on the carpet.

 

[Davies]

You don't need to accept the Lord. The Lord needs to accept you.

- Davies

And no, I don't see what you mean.

 

[wayseer]

You don't need to accept the Lord. The Lord needs to accept you.

Bad theology. Read the Prodigal Son.

 

[Davies]

Bad theology. Read the Prodigal Son.

It was the father who accepted the son.

- Davies

 

[wayseer]

It was the father who accepted the son.

- Davies

Again you miss the point.

Where does God 'need' to do anything. 'Needing' is an aspect of humanity - not God.

What you are doing is placing on God that which is human and then claiming it is an attribute of God.

 

[Davies]

The story of the prodigal shows a man who is being Godly, not the other way around. I'm right on point. Though God doesn't need anything, one of the defining characteristics that's amazing about God is that He values us anyway regardless of our sinful condition, just like the the father loved his son in the prodigal passage.

- Davies

 

[wayseer]

Though God doesn't need anything, one of the defining characteristics that's amazing about God is that He values us anyway regardless of our sinful condition, just like the the father loved his son in the prodigal passage.

OK - now you are getting on track.

So, if God, as you acknowledge, 'values us anyway' why do you need to ask the question

'How does a person know when he has repented enough?

As I have suggested, your question indicates that there has to be some trade off between grace and acceptance - that we are never quite good enough.

What I suggest is that there is no use in trading on God' emotions - all we have to do is accept.

 

[Davies]

The reason why I asked the question of how does someone know if they repented enough, is because you can never repent enough. You are never worthy of the least of the mercies of God. When you start to think you are worthy, then you devalue what Jesus did on the cross. Only by coming to the knowledge of how sinful you are can you appreciate Jesus and His sacrifice and subsequent resurrection. What did the prodigal son say to himself?

Luke 15:18-19
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.â€â€™

This attitude of the son was good, but he failed to realize was that his father was keeping an eye out for him to the whole time, and this is the loving attitude that God has towards us. But if we come to the father thinking I have repented enough, I deserve to be forgiven, then we value ourselves more than we value the Father and His love for us. That is not good.

The OP, perhaps poorly worded, communicated that if we repent, then we having nothing to worry about, when he should have communicated that if we repent and trust in the finished work of Jesus to justify us, then we can enjoy the rest that only can be found in Jesus Christ, then there is nothing to worry about. Repentance by itself is worthless without faith or trust in Jesus.

- Davies

 

[Elijah674]

????
God requires TOTAL 100% I,I,I,I,I (Isa. 14:12-14) GIVE UP LORD! Like the song goes, 'I surrender ALL, I surender ALL'. It is only then that Acts 5:32 takes place called the New Birth. John 3:3-8

And it is then that one has true FAITH with a REAL MOTIVE OF LOVE! (Born Again) And this is only the required starting place that Adam started with. Note James 2
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In other words Acts 5:32 is the CONDITION, and from here on the free choice is provided with Christs needed power to live Obediently if we will! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9

 

[WIP]

The reason why I asked the question of how does someone know if they repented enough, is because you can never repent enough. You are never worthy of the least of the mercies of God. When you start to think you are worthy, then you devalue what Jesus did on the cross. Only by coming to the knowledge of how sinful you are can you appreciate Jesus and His sacrifice and subsequent resurrection. What did the prodigal son say to himself?

Luke 15:18-19
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.â€â€™

This attitude of the son was good, but he failed to realize was that his father was keeping an eye out for him to the whole time, and this is the loving attitude that God has towards us. But if we come to the father thinking I have repented enough, I deserve to be forgiven, then we value ourselves more than we value the Father and His love for us. That is not good.

The OP, perhaps poorly worded, communicated that if we repent, then we having nothing to worry about, when he should have communicated that if we repent and trust in the finished work of Jesus to justify us, then we can enjoy the rest that only can be found in Jesus Christ, then there is nothing to worry about. Repentance by itself is worthless without faith or trust in Jesus.

- Davies

 

[wayseer]

The reason why I asked the question of how does someone know if they repented enough, is because you can never repent enough.

Of course you, nor I, can 'repent enough' - that's your problem - you are trying to do the impossible.

So give up trying to do the impossible and accept God's gift because God already sees up for what we are.