[_ Old Earth _] Findings of Evolutionary Development and Primate Brains.

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
He just said that the earth brought forth living things,

Sorry, that's not what I read here:

Genesis 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done. [25] And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.

 

[Barbarian]

The earth brought forth creatures yes but also God made (gave form to) others...but most importantly God made mankind's body from the same elements of the planet, and then animated His designed form by His own doing, called "the breath of Life".

So man's body was produced naturally, but his soul is given directly by God. That's not inconsistent with the facts.

Or He did not and actually we are here by some other set of circumstances and the whole God thing is a lie...

It's impossible to account for all the evil done in this world, by people who suppose their new doctrines must be true, else God is a liar.

does God lie (God forbid)?

No, but people embellish His word and imagine that their word is God's word, do bend the truth.

Because two FISH both have large dorsal fins and breath through gills and have longer than normal tailfins is homology but does not mean one came from the other OR that they necessarily came from a common ancestor either...

That they have a lateral line system, or a gill shunt in the circulatory system or a variety of other things, is homology. Fins are very often not homologous. Bats, pterosaurs, and birds have wings, but each derived differently. And being thus, we know they are not homologous.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

God says that He used pre-existing creation to make them.

You stated this in a previous post and I asked if you had scripture to back this up. You haven't answered me as to any scripture that you have reference to that would back this up.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Barbarian observes:
He just said that the earth brought forth living things,

Yes, I can see that in bold below. Check out the description which follows......." in it's kind", and "according to their kinds". Everything was created by "kinds".

All these things were created at the same time as God spoke. Man was created with God's own hands, to fit God's image and then He breathed life into this man. Two different methods. One by speech, one by hands. Then to nail it down as impossible for evolution to be true, the first woman human, ever, was made from the first human male's rib.

God told us exactly how He did it, the time frame He did it in by emphasizing with the words "there was evening there was morning, the first, second, third etc day.
So when I say "how long did it take"? God will say "I told you, clearly, six days and the seventh for rest"
Another proof is the fact that "God saw that it was good' in verse 25. There could not be any death if it was "good".
Death comes after the fall and evolution cannot function without death. Millions of years of death.
It is unbiblical and takes power and ability from God.

To stretch, bend, force or dream that evolution fits into this descriptive narrative of the creation is, in my opinion, an apostasy.



Genesis 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done. [25] And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/QUOTE]

 

[turnorburn]

It's merely God's creation. And He doesn't do hoaxes. Let Him be God and you'll find some peace with what He's done.

Quite right God doesn't do hoaxes but the god of this world does..

 

[Barbarian]

It's merely God's creation. And He doesn't do hoaxes. Let Him be God and you'll find some peace with what He's done.

Quite right God doesn't do hoaxes but the god of this world does..

Some people have made a god of the new doctrine of YE creationism.

 

[Barbarian]

Yes, I can see that in bold below. Check out the description which follows......." in it's kind", and "according to their kinds". Everything was created by "kinds".

So the fossil record says. The problem is, creationists don't want to accept the way He did it.

All these things were created at the same time as God spoke.

That is man's modification of God's word. It doesn't say that at all. As Christians have known since the start, the "days" of creation were not literal days, but different categories of creation.

God told us exactly how He did it, the time frame He did it in by emphasizing with the words "there was evening there was morning, the first, second, third etc day.

As early Christians noted, the notion of mornings and evenings without a Sun to have them, makes it clear that they aren't literal days. The modern revision of YE creationism was invented by the Seventh Day Adventists in the early 20th century.

Another proof is the fact that "God saw that it was good' in verse 25. There could not be any death if it was "good".

That's true for a non-believer, but of course, Christians don't see death as a bad thing at all. It is the next step in being with God. I can understand how some people would be scared of it, but Christians don't have to be.

Death comes after the fall

As you should know, the "death" God told Adam about was not a physical death. He told Adam that he would die the day he ate from the tree. Adam eats and lives on physically for many years thereafter. If God tells the truth, then it wasn't a physical death, but a spiritual one.

If Christ came to save us from a physical death, He failed. We will all die someday. The idea that the fall brought in physical death is unbiblical and contrary to the evidence.

 

[Eugene]

Now we know the genetic cause of this.

Lord...please help Barbarian....

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian, regarding the creation of living things:
God says that He used pre-existing creation to make them.

You stated this in a previous post and I asked if you had scripture to back this up. You haven't answered me as to any scripture that you have reference to that would back this up.

Gen. 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.

Notice that Earth was created, and then God used pre-existing creation to make living things. The "life ex nihilo" doctrine of YE creationism is directly opposed to God's word in Genesis.

 

[brother Paul]

No it is not...bios-life exnihilo comes first and then the earth brings forth according to THEIR (the already alive) species (kinds)...

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Gen. 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.

Notice that Earth was created, and then God used pre-existing creation to make living things. The "life ex nihilo" doctrine of YE creationism is directly opposed to God's word in Genesis.

No it is not...bios-life exnihilo comes first

That's not what God says. He first creates the Earth, and then that creation brings forth life, as He intended. That's what God says.

 

[brother Paul]

Oh I see....you are interpreting life ex nihilo as "POOF...there it is"....of course He used the elements He had brought forth to make the forms that life would animate...as long as we agree that "life" is not the matter itself (you know, the whole Mother Earth or the Earth is alive hypothesis of New Agers and Theosophists). "Life" already existed before any degree or process of creation...God is life!

 

[Barbarian]

Oh I see....you are interpreting life ex nihilo as "POOF...there it is"

Yeah, that's what it means. The universe, for example was created ex nihilo. From nothing. Life, however, was created naturally, using pre-existing creation.

....of course He used the elements He had brought forth to make the forms that life would animate...as long as we agree that "life" is not the matter itself

Life on Earth is a process. It's a complicated set of chemical reactions. There is a deeper life beyond that, which is granted to each of us directly by God. That is the life you alluded to, but it's not the life that you see in trees and fish and rabbits.

 

[brother Paul]

I thought of it as Life from nothing but the doctrine they hold is creation from nothing....first there was nothing and then God said (a form of sound) let there be light and there was light (pre-sun/star radiant energy)....He brought all else out of that...matter left alone by itself does nothing.

not the life that you see in trees and fish and rabbits

So for you, matter eventually turns into that which includes any degree of sentience....

 

[Barbarian]

I thought of it as Life from nothing but the doctrine they hold is creation from nothing....first there was nothing and then God said (a form of sound) let there be light and there was light (pre-sun/star radiant energy)....He brought all else out of that...matter left alone by itself does nothing.

Matter and energy is the way He does almost everything in this world. But as I said, the life that was brought forth by the Earth is not the life we get directly from God.

So for you, matter eventually turns into that which includes any degree of sentience....

Could you try that again? I'm having some trouble understanding what you want to say here. If you mean that God made creation so as to produce sentient beings, that's obvious. On the other hand, there's nothing that says all things must become intelligent.

Whether or not this is a matter of necessity doesn't matter. As St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, God can use either necessity or contingency in His divine providence.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Barbarian, regarding the creation of living things:
God says that He used pre-existing creation to make them.



Gen. 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.

Notice that Earth was created, and then God used pre-existing creation to make living things. The "life ex nihilo" doctrine of YE creationism is directly opposed to God's word in Genesis.

I see no where in this scripture, where it is indicated that "pre-existing" creation brought forth new and different kinds.

God has told us that each creature was made "unto it's own kind". Further, man was formed with God's own hands and then the breath of life was breathed into him (Adam) by God Himself. That very breath is in every human. Every breath you take originated at that moment when God breathed life into Adam's brand new created body.

I know you will retort with your statement that "God has no hands" However, I have given you the scripture that proves that you are in error, in my past posts. So I will not bore you with re posting the scripture that proves that God does in fact have hands.

 

[Barbarian]

I see no where in this scripture, where it is indicated that "pre-existing" creation brought forth new and different kinds.

Genesis. God says the earth (including the water and air) brought forth life, and that was the way He intended it. First the Earth was made, and then it produced life. That's God's word.

God has told us that each creature was made "unto it's own kind".

Still are today. Naturally. That's how He did it.

Further, man was formed with God's own hands

Jesus says that God is a spirit. And He says that a spirit has no bones. So no hands. Metaphorically, all living things brought forth by the Earth were made by His hands. But more importantly, He does give us our souls directly, each one of us, without using nature.

and then the breath of life was breathed into him (Adam) by God Himself. That very breath is in every human. Every breath you take originated at that moment when God breathed life into Adam's brand new created body.

Yep. Our bodies are made by natural processes, but our souls are directly from God.

I know you will retort with your statement that "God has no hands"

If we can believe Jesus, that's true.

John 4:24 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.

Luke 24:39 See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have.

However, I have given you the scripture that proves that you are in error, in my past posts. So I will not bore you with re posting the scripture that proves that God does in fact have hands.

Not if we can believe Jesus, Who clearly denies it.