For Christians

[Joshua]

This topic keeps coming up in different threads I'm following...so I thought I would make a new thread and ask the questions:

How do you know you're a Christian?

How do you become a Christian?

How do you stop being a Christian?

Feel Free to take a stab at 1, 2 or all 3 questions.

I know everyone has different thoughts on this, so please use scripture to back up our statements if you can.

Also lets be civil with one another on this issue...please don't bash peoples denominations.

 

[St Francis]

Based on my beliefs, and I think everyone know what those are:

How do you know you're a Christian?

By having faith in Christ and knowing you've been baptised

How do you become a Christian?

Be baptised, which is the way of entrance into the covenant family of God

How do you stop being a Christian?

Renounce and/or reject God

 

[Joshua]

I totally agree... except in the baptism part. Now don't get me wrong I am in no way against baptism, I was baptized (by immersion) at the baptist church I grew up in.

I believe the way to become a Christian is...to have faith in Christ, that He died for my sins and was resurrected from death. To accepted His free gift of Salvation through grace.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithâ€â€and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of Godâ€â€not by works, so that no one can boast." â€â€Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

However, I'm unsure if it is absolutely 100% necessary for salvation.

 

[St Francis]

I totally agree... except in the baptism part. Now don't get me wrong I am in no way against baptism, I was baptized (by immersion) at the baptist church I grew up in.

I believe the way to become a Christian is...to have faith in Christ, that He died for my sins and was resurrected from death. To accepted His free gift of Salvation through grace.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithâ€â€and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of Godâ€â€not by works, so that no one can boast." â€â€Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)

However, I'm unsure if it is absolutely 100% necessary for salvation.

Well, I'd love to PM you about this some time. If I post here, some mod will violate me becuase the beliefs of the majority of Christians (Catholics) are not allowed in this "Christian" forum. LOL. What irony.

 

[Veritas]

How do you know you're a Christian?

Well I hope I am. ...I'm living for Christ in between my bumps and fits.

....do worry about those bumps and fits.... I need lots of forgiveness

How do you become a Christian?

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16

How do you stop being a Christian?

stubborness... probably similar to what happened to certain Israelites...

"But my people would not listen to me;
Israel would not submit to me.

So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts
to follow their own devices.
Psalm 81:11-12

 

[Rick W]

If I post here, some mod will violate me becuase the beliefs of the majority of Christians (Catholics) are not allowed in this "Christian" forum. LOL. What irony.

This site is NOT going to become once again the war zone it once was. No way. There will be peace and civil discussion regardless of how ironic you think it it is. There will be no more Catholic-bashing and non-Catholic put downs St Francis. :gah

 

[brakelite2]

How do you know you're a Christian?
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jer 9:23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.


How do you become a Christian?
I became a Christian the moment I died. For in that moment I was born again by the Spirit of the Living God. That was the moment I repented of my past sinful life and accepted my Savior's forgiveness through His death. To ratify and publicly declare my new found loyalty and change of heart I submitted myself to baptism which showed that the old man was buried and dead, and that I am now a new man in Christ.

How do you stop being a Christian?
By repenting of your repentance.

 

[Pogo]

Hi, Joshua -

This thread is a good idea!

I think that you already know my position on your first two questions...to which I'll add one passage, of many, in support of my view...

John 3 KJV
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now, in response to your third question, my view will probably differ from most on this forum.

I see the scriptures telling me, that once a person becomes a Christian, they will always be a Christian.

I see all Christians as being in one of two possible states at all times. A Christian is either an OBEDIENT Christian, or a DISOBEDIENT Christian, from the moment s/he rises up out of the baptizing waters, throughout all of their life, after death, and throughout the rest of eternity!

BTW - Joshua...or any one...I have referenced John 3:5, and Veritas mentioned Mark 16:16, if ALL passages related to an issue aren't considered when seeking the TRUTH, then how can the TRUTH be determined?

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[St Francis]

How do you become a Christian?

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16

Oooh. I should have put that in my post. Good verse.

 

[Joshua]

On baptism....

Was the thief on the cross (next to Jesus) saved? He wasn't baptized.

 

[Pogo]

Christ was still alive at the time this happened.

The dispensation under which the NT applies, the one that we live under today, had yet to begin.

But...in any event...all you have to do, if this is the route that you prefer, is to get Christ to publicly announce to a group of your peers that you will be saved without baptism.

There is another way too, you can lose your life, be martyred in Christ's name, and your salvation will be guaranteed.

Good luck with your study Joshua!

Pogo

 

[Veritas]

Was the thief on the cross (next to Jesus) saved? He wasn't baptized.

I believe he was. I also believe if for some reason someone came to faith in a middle of a desert...and died a couple minutes later.... they'd be saved too.

I see a duality in baptism. You have the unseen going on (Holy Spirit)... and the seen (water)

So, for example... with baptism of infants, the fullness of the Holy Spirit is probably coinciding for the first time with the water. With adults, the Holy Spirit is there, or they wouldn't believe in the first place. Baptism with water is a response at that point and it still is a means of grace (ie Spirit working through it) for the individual.

 

[St Francis]

On baptism....

Was the thief on the cross (next to Jesus) saved? He wasn't baptized.

Baptism is the "norm", but there are exceptions. Christians have always realized that the necessity of water baptism is a normative rather than an absolute necessity. It is possible to be saved through "baptism of blood," martyrdom for Christ, or through "baptism of desire", that is, an explicit or even implicit desire for baptism.

A favorite book of mine (which shall remain nameless) states: "Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, are saved even if they have not been baptized".

 

[brakelite2]

I think it must be remembered that baptism is merely a public declaration of something that has already taken place in the heart. That is why infant baptism is meaningless. One must be baptised from choice, and a desire to obey the example given us by our Lord.
Problem with many is that they are baptised without the change of heart that must of necessity come beforehand. That change of heart is a recognition of our own sinfulness and an acceptance of the substitutionary sacrifice that Jesus offered. Repentance results in our being born again. Now it is very likely that when we go through that process, we are totally ignorant of the theological nuances of the transaction that took place. But Paul explains in Romans very clearly what actually takes place when we accept Christ into our lives and turn away from our former sinful selfish lives. The old man dies in Christ. God accepts the death of our flesh in the form of His Son. We are also risen with Him, and receive the Holy Spirit Who gives us the enabling power to live sanctified lives. The baptism signifies our burial. The rising up out of the water signifies our resurrection. The old man is dead, a new man is created. But as I said, there is a problem with many. They are baptised without dying to the old life. They are not converted and are thus 'buried' alive. Though baptised and confessing to belong to the Christian faith, their Christian walk is filled with failure and becomes a sad testimony for those genuinely seeking who witness the ongoing problems with sin and worldliness.
And more often than not, the person concerned is totally unaware there is anything wrong. They are blind to their own shortcomings, and consider quite often that those who are more consecrated and commited are either fanatics or legalists.

 

[St Francis]

I think it must be remembered that baptism is merely a public declaration of something that has already taken place in the heart......

That is not what most Christians believe. The majority of Christians, along with the Early Church Fathers, believe in the regenerative grace of baptism.

 

[francisdesales]

On baptism....

Was the thief on the cross (next to Jesus) saved? He wasn't baptized.

Baptism's efficaciousness comes from the Holy Spirit, who had yet to be sent. God doesn't absolutely need to save through Baptism, the Spirit blows where He wills. However, that is the ordinary means that we are first saved and become children of God. Baptism became the ordinary way only after the Spirit came to be poured out upon men through the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5).

Regards

 

[Veritas]

That is why infant baptism is meaningless. One must be baptised from choice

But ultimately... who here can really take the credit? ...see, this is part of the reason I believe infant baptism to be very meaningful.

I don't view my baptism as meaningless. I was baptized as a baby, and in my experience, its made an impact on my life with Christ.

 

[francisdesales]

That is why infant baptism is meaningless. One must be baptised from choice

But ultimately... who here can really take the credit? ...see, this is part of the reason I believe infant baptism to be very meaningful.

I don't view my baptism as meaningless. I was baptized as a baby, and in my experience, its made an impact on my life with Christ.

Exactly. Infant baptism is the ultimate expression that salvation is a free gift, not dependent upon ANYTHING AT ALL from the recipient. Furthermore, the idea of bringing infants into the community of God has precedent with circumcision.

Regards

 

[St Francis]

That is why infant baptism is meaningless. One must be baptised from choice

Wrong.

1) Was the Centurian's servant healed by knowing Christ? NO. He was healed on the faith of the Centurian. The servant never met Jesus and didn't even know he was going to be healed, but Jesus healed him based on the faith & request of the centurian. A baby is baptised based on the faith of his or her parents, until they are old enough to make the faith their own. Remember: Baptism replaces Circumcision as the sign of a covenant, and infants were circumcised at eight days old.

2) Baptism is a sacrament which infuses grace. It works whether the baby knows it or not, again, based on the faith of the baby's parents.