Bible Study For it is by grace you have been saved...

[Fnerb]

Hello all!

Before I get into my question I should preface a little about myself. I have been raised a WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) member all my life. So that gives you a little back-ground on the theology ring that i'm coming from.

A long story short, I have been dealing with some health issues lately. Doesn't appear to be anything serious, but I am trying to be thankful for it (apart from the fear) because it has brought me right back to my faith (which I realize now I was never away from, but had become complacent in).

So, onto my question...

Paul tells us in Ephesians that, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." (2:8-9 NIV) Well in my recent bible studies I have come across a few other verses that ... for lack of a better term, scared me a bit. In Romans 14:12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 we are told that each of us will need to give an account to God. 2 Corinthians even says, "whether good or bad." And in Hebrews 12:14 it says to "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and be holy..." "Make every effort..." This almost sounds like I am going to get to heaven, stand before God and he is going to ask, "OK, so what did you do to further my kingdom and serve me with the gifts I gave you while you were on earth." It sounds like good works are something that are part of my sanctification...

I have spoke with my pastor about this. He pointed me toward 1 Timothy 2:5 and 6 which says, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men-the testimony given in its proper time" He said that the 2 Corinthians passage is an excellent law passage which should make us feel very uncomfortable because we fall short of God's perfect standard. Yet 1 Timothy reminds us that we have a mediator. This means when we stand before the Judge we don't have to do the talking, Jesus does it for us. We have his righteousness. He gives us the ability and will to do the things God wants us to do (Philippians 2:13). So my Pastor said, "So when you get to heaven and stand before God and he asks you that question, all you have to do is point to the guy standing next to you with the nail marks in his hands and smile."

Now I have been informed that some people in the Christian community consider Lutherans "lazy" since we believe it's not by ANYTHING that we do that gets us to heaven and that good works are just products of us thanking him. I take great comfort in what my Pastor has told me and also have an even greater yerning to serve my Lord. Much like the Jeremy Camp song:

"This is my desire
to be used by you"

I'm just curious as to what others think of this?

 

[Rick W]

Just one thing for clarification if I may.

So my Pastor said, "So when you get to heaven and stand before God and he asks you that question, all you have to do is point to the guy standing next to you with the nail marks in his hands and smile."

Well, you won't have to point to the guy with the nail marks in his hands. He'll be the one before you.


John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

 

[Bick]

For it is by grace you have been saved

Hi FNERB. Potluck is right in showing that all judgment is committed to the Son...Christ Jesus.

It is my understanding that we in the body of Christ, are a special called out people, a mystery not revealed to men in past ages, but revealed to the apostle Paul. God the Father has a special plan for us, both Jews and Gentiles, now in one body, to enjoy all the spiritual blessings He has prepared for us in the heavenlies (Eph. chapts. 1-3).

We are saved by grace, kept save by grace, and grace will take us home to the heavenlies.

Since we believed, Christ, our salvation is in us. And because it is in us, Paul encourages us in Phil. 2:12-13, "Be working out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God working in you, both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

So, my friend, God has already prepared our good deeds which we will do.

As for the judging of the church/body of Christ, Paul writes of this event in two different places:

Rom. 14:10-12, AV: "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, 'As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God'. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

2 Cor. 5:10, AV: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

And, it may be that at this judgment in the heavenlies, we will gain or lose rewards. But not our salvation.

It is our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who will judge us. The word for "judgment seat" in Greek is "bema", meaning a "foot print" or "tribunal." It was a raised platform where a judge would sit or stand, whether to hand out awards to contestants in a sport, or to listen to those accused of crimes, and then make a decision.

IMO, Christ is our mediator right now, for I believe Satan, that old adversary, accuses us of sinning, before God. But Christ can say "he's under the blood," or something like that.

Those are my views: Bick

 

[JM]

The Greek includes faith in the package of salvation, faith is a gift of God, it's in my nice new Greek text book! Faith is a gift of God!

Amen

 

[quadding101]

To understand the Bible and God's purpose for man on earth, we must take all the Bible and not take part and leave part out. First, Why did God make man and put him in a place that He knew would be full of sin and suffering? If God desired more to serve and fellowship with Him, He could have made more angels and avoided all this sin and suffering. The conclusion to this question and statement is, God wants something that He will only get by man being on earth. So why is man on earth?Man is here because of what the angels did, rebelled. The angels WANTED what God would not allow and they WANTED it MORE than they WANTED God. If they would have WANTED God MOST then they would not have rebelled. Man is here to be tested and tried, molded and made ready for heaven. If we can serve God no matter the cost like Joseph and Job (Go through the fire). If we can surrender our will (want) and do God's will (want) for our lives (Take up our cross). If we can say no to sin here while being tempted (Overcome). If we can do all this here on earth then when we get to heaven we will have no problem serving and obeying God. I have believed that when we get to heaven that if there in something that is not quite right with me (sin etc.) that God will just zap me and make me to where I can live forever with Him and He never fear that I will ever rebel against Him. God has corrected me in this belief. If God were to just zap us and make us to where we will never rebel against Him then He would be programming us and we would be no more than a robot and no longer free willed. We must change ourselves with God's help. We must first do what it takes to get God then we must do our part and also allow God to Have His way in our lives to help mold and make us ready for heaven. You may ask, If there is no tempter in heaven then why do we need to change (overcome the world and sin)? The bible tells us that we r tempted when we r drawn away because of our own lust. It is something that we WANT. We cannot be tempted by something that we truly care nothing about. When we get to heaven there will be no tempter but we will still WANT. WANT is why the angel rebelled. If we look at (go through the fire)like Joseph and Job, will decied if we will serve and obey God no matter what it costs us and if u have God it will cost u and God will know how much u really want Him. Surrender our will and do God's will for our life (take up or cross) has to do with obedience and surrender and WANT. Saying no to sin (overcome) has also to do with obedience and WANT. So u see their is a reason why we r here that has is a lot more to it than just belief, faith, and accepting Jesus which is very much a part of it. What does it take to get God's Spirit into our hearts. God must be what is most important to us. Like the story of the young rich man. He was given a choice between his riches and God and he choose what was most important to him, his riches and the life style that it gave him. But it can be anything, anyone or yourself that is most important to u. Trust is the key to getting God, Trust God so that we can give up or go or do and not fear that our needs will be supplied. If we have truly have God it will come down to, How much do we want God. I hope this helps u.

 

[Bick]

For by grace you have been saved

Well, quadding 101, it sounds to me like you will be able to pat yourself on the back for the part you have done to gain your salvation.

I only see that salvation is all from God: even our faith does not come from us, it comes when we hear the good news, the gospel, that Christ died for our sins, was buried and has ascended to the right hand of God.

Have you read Romans 3:10-28 lately? It briefly says there is no one that understands, no one that seeks after God.

Man, apart from the Spirit of God drawing him, would never seek God!

And, for those "under the law", no one, in the sight of God, will be declared "just" by the deeds of the law. Because NO ONE can keep the law perfectly.

But, the good news is, apart from law, righteousness of God is manifest through Jesus Christ's faith (the literal meaning), for all and upon all who are believing. That's right, the faith that Jesus had during his earthly ministry, leading him to Calvary. And believing that God his Father would raise him from the dead.

The whole plan of redemption was in God's mind, IMO, before the universe was created. Just as, through Christ, all things, all beings were created, I, for one, understand that God's great love is such that He will work in every way to show just how great this love is, by allowing mankind to fall to the lowest depths, that when they are saved through His favor, they will give Him the highest praise, through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Q 101, your ideas of a tempter in heaven is fanciful. Nothing in the Scriptures like that! That is, when we, the church/body of Christ have been "raptured" to the heavenlies.

There have been some angels who left their normal habitation, as described in 1 Pet. 4, 5 and Jude 6, and in Gen. 6. But they are in prison, in the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, awaiting judgment. The war in heaven, where Satan and a third of the angels are driven out of heaven and cast down to earth, described in Rev. 12, is all future. The book is about the unveiling of Christ Jesus, and starts with John being in spirit in the Lord's Day, or the Day of the Lord...same thing.

Of course, in our daily walk, our faith is being tested. But, with the Spirit living in us, even though we may stumble, we will never fall.

Bick

 

[wavy]

Yes, we will be judged according to our works. "Pointing" to Jesus will not change this fact.

Galatians 6:7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

However, this concerns reward and punishment for believers, not salvation or damnation. We will still be saved, yet, because of deeds done in our bodies, we will not all merit the same rewards. Some in the kingdom will be greater than others.

 

[Solo]

Yes, we will be judged accoridng to our works. "Pointing" to Jesus will not change this fact.

Galatians 6:7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

However, this concerns reward and punishment for believers, not salvation or damnation. We will still be saved, yet, because of deeds done in our bodies, we will not all merit the same rewards. Some in the kingdom will be greater than others.

Exactly. Nice explanation. Thanks.