Growth FORGIVING ABORTION AS MURDER

[Choir Loft]

CNN, among other vendors of the trash we now call news, posted a story recently stating that for a period of one year priests can proclaim forgiveness to those who've had abortions.

This is a wonderful way for one of the world's oldest Christian denominations to snuggle up to debauched American culture. The idea is to get Catholics back into a church that despite being irrelevant in our hedonistic society nevertheless holds its arms open wide to forgive those who don't believe they've got anything to be sorry about in the first place. Wonderful idea.

Do you suppose this embrace of sin has anything to do with the fact that Europe, once the cradle of Christendom, is now completely secularized? hmmmm?

How about looking at the issue from a Biblical perspective? Granted that this is an outmoded method of defining Christianity, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway...........just for fun.

From beginning to end, the Bible seems to indicate that God has a procedure that needs to be followed prior to the issuance of any blanket statement of forgiveness. In the middle of all of it hangs a man on an ugly piece of lumber with his life bleeding out onto the ground. He had a few things to say about forgiveness too.

The purpose of forgiveness is to reunite a person with God. Jesus didn't mention anything about renewing church membership. I could be wrong on this, but I'm sure I don't recall reading anything about it. If memory serves, it was all about redeeming the sinner in the eyes of God by means of the blood He shed upon the cross.

For the most part, forgiveness must be preceded by repentance. Some guy named John went around in the countryside just before Jesus began preaching. Mr. John said a few things about repentance. Jesus even said that it was necessary that this message of repentance should come before the gospel of forgiveness.

Again I could be mistaken, but doesn't repentance involve some sort of acknowledgement that a dirty deed has been committed? Some call it sin, but these days that's a cute word not a bad one. God seems to think it's bad, though and I do think He has a thing or two to say about it.

Sincere repentance must come before forgiveness is granted. Did Pope Francis mention anything along those lines? I haven't read anywhere that the pontiff said this......but again I could be mistaken.

The acknowledgment of sin is not a popular thing in America these days......or anywhere else for that matter. Sin is popular and profitable and anybody who doesn't sweep its negative connotation under a religious rug is said to be hateful and spiteful and just doggone nuts.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[th1b.taylor]

I, like any forgiven person fell on my knees, weeping, asking for the forgiveness on the Father can grant. And though I deeply despise any that work to sell a formula for forgiveness, God has put limits and requirements on Salvation, salvation gained only through Repentance.

Good conversation generator.

 

[electricaluser]

CNN, among other vendors of the trash we now call news, posted a story recently stating that for a period of one year priests can proclaim forgiveness to those who've had abortions.

This is a wonderful way for one of the world's oldest Christian denominations to snuggle up to debauched American culture. The idea is to get Catholics back into a church that despite being irrelevant in our hedonistic society nevertheless holds its arms open wide to forgive those who don't believe they've got anything to be sorry about in the first place. Wonderful idea.

Do you suppose this embrace of sin has anything to do with the fact that Europe, once the cradle of Christendom, is now completely secularized? hmmmm?

How about looking at the issue from a Biblical perspective? Granted that this is an outmoded method of defining Christianity, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway...........just for fun.

From beginning to end, the Bible seems to indicate that God has a procedure that needs to be followed prior to the issuance of any blanket statement of forgiveness. In the middle of all of it hangs a man on an ugly piece of lumber with his life bleeding out onto the ground. He had a few things to say about forgiveness too.

The purpose of forgiveness is to reunite a person with God. Jesus didn't mention anything about renewing church membership. I could be wrong on this, but I'm sure I don't recall reading anything about it. If memory serves, it was all about redeeming the sinner in the eyes of God by means of the blood He shed upon the cross.

For the most part, forgiveness must be preceded by repentance. Some guy named John went around in the countryside just before Jesus began preaching. Mr. John said a few things about repentance. Jesus even said that it was necessary that this message of repentance should come before the gospel of forgiveness.

Again I could be mistaken, but doesn't repentance involve some sort of acknowledgement that a dirty deed has been committed? Some call it sin, but these days that's a cute word not a bad one. God seems to think it's bad, though and I do think He has a thing or two to say about it.

Sincere repentance must come before forgiveness is granted. Did Pope Francis mention anything along those lines? I haven't read anywhere that the pontiff said this......but again I could be mistaken.

The acknowledgment of sin is not a popular thing in America these days......or anywhere else for that matter. Sin is popular and profitable and anybody who doesn't sweep its negative connotation under a religious rug is said to be hateful and spiteful and just doggone nuts.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

What is this OP about? Who am I forgiving now? You know 25 years ago I almost aborted my own daughter, but if her mother didn't change her mind on the morning of the abortion we would have.

 

[Blake]

I saw this report the other day. I see your points on one hand, but on the other hand, let me share another side.

The Catholics still assert that abortion is a terrible sin, and that a believer still ex-communicates themselves from the communion of the Church by committing the act. Pope Francis declared ex cathedra that rather than seeking re-entry to the church by confessing before a Bishop, that the parish priests are now able to hear their confession and, if they're truly penitent, receive them back into the Church.

I'm sure that to very conservative Catholics this is offensive, but I see grace in it. Pope Francis wants women who have made grave mistakes to know that God can forgive them if they are penitent. He is showing it by allowing women the mercy to confess to her parish priest rather than seek out a Bishop. Francis was very clear that the Church hasn't changed its views on abortion or ex-communication for abortion.

As a protestant Christian with liturgical Christian roots (formerly Eastern Orthodox), I think it's great. The Roman Church has removed one step from their hierarchy. There will never be a day when the sacrament of confession as practiced in liturgical churches changes, but, to see them take repentance from the Bishopric level and down to the Priesthood level is great.

In short, the Pope is saying let's remove another obstacle between penitent parishioners and Christ's forgiveness.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jesus is not holding the Sin of abortion against anyone, I don't give it thought.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Abortion is another name for infanticide which is another name for murder. If a man or a woman does not live in the grace of God, there is nothing they can ever do that is not counted against them. (Rom. 3:23) I do not believe the destruction of the image of God can be a graduated sin but pulling a new image of God into pieces will not be any less sinful than the murder of a grown man.

 

[electricaluser]

Jesus is not holding the Sin of abortion against anyone, I don't give it thought.

And Jesus told you that personally did he? Because my spirit refuses to tell me anything about it, I know because every time I ask about it I get a awful feeling that I am not ready to understand Gods mind on abortion.

 

[Choir Loft]

Jesus is not holding the Sin of abortion against anyone, I don't give it thought.

This is one of the problems with 'modern' society - not giving serious matters any thought at all. If it feels good or if it justifies one's appetites or covers wrong or if one can get away with it, then it's ok. Where do you get your morality? Do you know what scruples are? Abortion is murder. There's no way to speak of it more clearly. Most of the time it's murder for the sake of convenience. Forgiveness is a way of reconciling a sinner to God. It does not justify a crime and it does not provide society with a blank check to commit wickedness.

When we speak of Jesus, we're talking about God's offer of reconciliation. In order for reconciliation to be embraced one must realize that there is a separation due to offense. The offense is sin, one of which is murder of infants. How can one know the mind of God? Opening the Bible is a major step in the right direction. It IS possible to know something of God. One doesn't need to know all there is to know about a person in order to understand them.

One of the most grievous examples of sin in the Bible is the account of the worship of the pagan god Molech. Statues of Molech were hollow to allow a huge internal fire to burn within. The statue was depicted with its arms held out. Worshippers of Molech were expected to place their children in the statue's arms which were super heated by the internal fires. Children offered to Molech were burned alive.

The Biblical account said that these acts of worship to the false god of Molech were one of the reasons God destroyed ancient Israel. The Bible says that God hates the murder of children. In the gospel account, the story is told of Jesus' love for children and how He forbade adults from preventing the little ones to come to Him. The heart of God's love for children is thus revealed in the pages of Holy Writ.

Because God does not want anyone to be judged, He has offered forgiveness. But forgiveness is not free. It requires that the sinner repent of his or her sin and vow to abandon it forever. In exchange, God says He will forget the offense. The problem is that repentance must come first. The only prayer God will hear from a sinner's heart is the prayer of repentance. A sincere heart WILL be forgiven in spite of everything. A sinner who thinks a priests' forgiveness is a blank check to 'do it again' is in danger of judgment.....as is the entire nation for supporting it. 57 million dead babies is a big deal in any book.

As I understand it, the offer is for a limited time. What happens next? What happens to those who do not repent? It is not wise to play games with God. God wins every time.

God stands this day with his hand extended in forgiveness. His other hand hides judgment upon those who refuse. It is time to call sin for what it is and to make use of God's way of escape - forgiveness.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Lewis]

CNN, among other vendors of the trash we now call news, posted a story recently stating that for a period of one year priests can proclaim forgiveness to those who've had abortions.

Who gave priests that power, not God, so it is counterfeit

 

[Brother Mike]

This is one of the problems with 'modern' society - not giving serious matters any thought at all. If it feels good or if it justifies one's appetites or covers wrong or if one can get away with it, then it's ok. Where do you get your morality? Do you know what scruples are? Abortion is murder. There's no way to speak of it more clearly. Most of the time it's murder for the sake of convenience. Forgiveness is a way of reconciling a sinner to God. It does not justify a crime and it does not provide society with a blank check to commit wickedness.

When we speak of Jesus, we're talking about God's offer of reconciliation. In order for reconciliation to be embraced one must realize that there is a separation due to offense. The offense is sin, one of which is murder of infants.
.

I don't want to confuse Lack of Judgement, with lack of concern. The only judgement on God's side is his own people, God forbid if one of us having light, murder a child, when God is more than able to help us take care of that child.

We also don't want to confuse the Lord's lack of Judgement for sin as men are appointed to die once, then judged with no effect of the laws of sin and death. There is a law of reaping and sowing, the curse of the law that still is effecting people for what they commit. The World notices this as something called Karma, but it's spiritual law that a person must reap what they sow. You have a bad harvest if you sow murdering a baby.

The only way to curb this mass murder is to pass laws that make it Murder. The problem there is we have 700,000 unwanted children that someone needs to pay and care for. That is every year, and there is no money, no room to feed and care for all the extra children.

So the problem seems that this free sex and do what feels right society needs reprogrammed. That will take censorship. It's just a mess really.

And Jesus told you that personally did he? Because my spirit refuses to tell me anything about it, I know because every time I ask about it I get a awful feeling that I am not ready to understand Gods mind on abortion.

God's mind on sin, murder, abortion, extortion, and so on is that it's so brief in his eyes. Man is here for a moment and then gone.

Joh_12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Even those that hear the Lord's words and Ignore them, He is not judging right now. He is just letting people do what they want to do.

As for Abortion, God puts the spirit in man. A baby can't form life if there is no spirit to power that life. The body without the spirit is dead (James) So, the baby get's sent back to God as the spirit returns to God (Ecc)

So, every single person made, God personally made them, and if man is unfaithful and ungrateful and sends that spirit back early, then I am sure God is more than able to handle it. It's not like they killed the baby, they just stopped it's flesh body from being able to house that persons spirit.

Now I have heard many accounts of babies and children in Heaven that are taught and learn there from more than one account of those that have gotten to visit Heaven. Not saying it's true, no scripture to back it up, but It seems right to me.

Mike.

 

[reba]

closed this thread is in the wrong place...

 

[reba]

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