• CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes will be coming in the future!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • CFN welcomes new contributing members!

    Please welcome Roberto and Julia to our family

    Blessings in Christ, and hope you stay awhile!

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

Forgiving

LostSoul

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
0
My apologies if it seems this topic is a bit dwelled upon in light of my present situation, but the written word is something that would like to be turned to as well as thought heavily upon.

In scripture as believers, we are taught to forgive those who do wrong against us. Also to continue to forgive them even when they continue to tresspass against us.

Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. (NIV)

The questions I have in regards of this is how can we, as believers exercise this especially when it is someone we trusted and loved that betrays us again and again? If anyone can try to offer an answer based on scripture, it would be much appreciated. As I said before, this is something truly worth looking into again and again perhaps not only to help us grow in love, but to also remind us what it means to forgive when things go wrong, myself included.

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
What do you think it means to forgive, Danielle? Some think it means to let go of ill feelings toward a person. But God forgives us. Does He have ill feelings towards us? Some thinks it means to let the person of the hook. God doesn't let us off the hook. He deals with us.

I think it is important to understand that true forgiveness goes much deeper, and is a response to repentance.

Watch yourselves; if your brother sins, admonish him, and if he should repent, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him." Luke 17:3,4


To repent is to have a change of heart and mind. I must admit that if someone sinned against me 7 times in a day, and said that he repented each time, I would begin to doubt about the 6th or 7th time that his repentance was genuine. However Jesus may have been using hyperbole here, and even more so for the 70 times 7, in order to indicate that we should always forgive a truly repentant person. Even if he doesn't ask our forgiveness, if we observe that he has had a change of mind and heart about what he was doing we should forgive him.

The person who betrayed you and continues to do so has demonstrated that he has not really repented, and should not be forgiven.

When God forgives us, the wrong that we did is as far away as the east is from the west. Our relationship with Him has been restored, and as far as He is concerned, it's just as if we had never done that wrong. It should be the same way with us. If our relationship with a person has broken down because of what he did, and if he has had a real change of heart and mind, and we forgive him, we will never mention the matter again. Our relationship with him will have been restored.

But let's not give anyone an "easy forgiveness". I know one man (let's call him "Joe") who said he forgave another man (let's call him "Sam"), and a day later Joe wrote to Sam and told him that he didn't trust him, that he (Sam) was a hypocrite, and to stay away from him (Joe). This kind of "forgiveness" was very confusing to Sam. It's better not to forgive at all than to "forgive" in such a way that you are merely uttering meaningless words.
 
Paidion said:
What do you think it means to forgive, Danielle? Some think it means to let go of ill feelings toward a person. But God forgives us. Does He have ill feelings towards us? Some thinks it means to let the person of the hook. God doesn't let us off the hook. He deals with us.

I think it is important to understand that true forgiveness goes much deeper, and is a response to repentance.

Watch yourselves; if your brother sins, admonish him, and if he should repent, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him." Luke 17:3,4


To repent is to have a change of heart and mind. I must admit that if someone sinned against me 7 times in a day, and said that he repented each time, I would begin to doubt about the 6th or 7th time that his repentance was genuine. However Jesus may have been using hyperbole here, and even more so for the 70 times 7, in order to indicate that we should always forgive a truly repentant person. Even if he doesn't ask our forgiveness, if we observe that he has had a change of mind and heart about what he was doing we should forgive him.

The person who betrayed you and continues to do so has demonstrated that he has not really repented, and should not be forgiven.

When God forgives us, the wrong that we did is as far away as the east is from the west. Our relationship with Him has been restored, and as far as He is concerned, it's just as if we had never done that wrong. It should be the same way with us. If our relationship with a person has broken down because of what he did, and if he has had a real change of heart and mind, and we forgive him, we will never mention the matter again. Our relationship with him will have been restored.

But let's not give anyone an "easy forgiveness". I know one man (let's call him "Joe") who said he forgave another man (let's call him "Sam"), and a day later Joe wrote to Sam and told him that he didn't trust him, that he (Sam) was a hypocrite, and to stay away from him (Joe). This kind of "forgiveness" was very confusing to Sam. It's better not to forgive at all than to "forgive" in such a way that you are merely uttering meaningless words.


Paidon,

You ask a real legitimate question on this subject. What do I think it means to forgive?

Though I may not be the best person to practice what I believe in terms of forgiveness, and struggle with it I do believe that true forgiveness requires a great deal of love. The sort of love in which Christ gave for us in his sacrificing Himself for us on the cross. It took more love than I can fathom for Jesus to take in all the cruelties in which He did. I can only imagine how heart wrenching the whole experience of His walk to Calvary and execution were for Him.

He forgave and still forgives in ways that I almost find unbelievable. It is that sort of forgiveness I feel we are supposed to extend towards those that wrong us. Even if we cannot necessarily have any form of relationship with that person. For it is also written that whomever we cannot forgive for wronging us, can make it hard for God to do the same unto us if we are not willing to follow His word and do so unto our brethren.

At the time, this is a real challenge for me yes....mostly because I feel the person who has wronged my husband, unborn son, and I has not truly sought repentance. Rather...he has continued to do wrong unto us by not trying to contribute at all while we are struggling to make ends meat so that way we do not lose our home. It is something though, that I do want to try. Even if it takes a good long time. For we are taught to forgive one another. So that is why I earnestly would like to try. Resentment is not a pleasant load to carry and is not one to be encouraged upon any heart.

So any advice or counsel that can be received along with enlightenment on this topic is really key. For we all likely have had times where forgiveness and its general practice were brought into question as well as how we can truly go about forgiving someone who has really done us wrong. Livng for God is truly hard in this way for forgiveness is something I am but an infant in.

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
LostLamb said:
At the time, this is a real challenge for me yes....mostly because I feel the person who has wronged my husband, unborn son, and I has not truly sought repentance. Rather...he has continued to do wrong unto us by not trying to contribute at all while we are struggling to make ends meat so that way we do not lose our home.... Resentment is not a pleasant load to carry and is not one to be encouraged upon any heart.
Danielle,

Grandma thinks today's society has pushed the female image so much, that women have gone overboard in trying to handle 'everything'. No one needs to play both Mom & Dad in the same house. But before sermonizing about such, let's say...the men should handle men problems and differences (apart from Mrs. telling him how to do it). If the problem is with a female, then Mrs. should handle the females, gently but with firmness. No firmness--no respect, either way. Most of all, trust in God for the outcome and there will be no resentment.

Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. NASU

Proverbs 29:25
25 The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the LORD will be exalted. NASU

Edit is for Grandma, who says
May you Be Blessed this day...Ret
 
Forgiveness yes...

The right to continue harming someone, no.
 
mondar said:
Forgiveness yes...

The right to continue harming someone, no.

Mondar,

Can you perhaps expand a bit on this for me? This way I can be certain I do not misunderstand you.

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
Danielle, here is a short article I wrote a few years ago on True Forgiveness. I hope it may help in some way.


True Forgiveness

So often the word “forgive†is limited to the concept of letting go of our ill feelings: our hurt feelings and possibly self-pity --- our feelings of resentment --- our feelings of outrage. If forgiveness is thus limited, a full and true forgiveness is never obtained. Let me illustrate with an example.

The word translated as “forgive†is also used with regards to monetary debt, as indeed, it still is so used to this day. Suppose someone owes me some money, which he was supposed to pay in a month, but a year has gone by, and he still has not paid. Now I could allow feelings of resentment and outrage to build in me. Suppose I have made many attempts to get the money, but to no avail. I might even allow self-pity to arise. Now all of these are feelings I ought not to have. Suppose, by God’s grace, I am able to let all of these feelings go. I no longer have any ill feelings against the man. Does this mean I have forgiven him? In the weaker sense of the word, yes. But do I still think he owes me the money? Yes, I do! Though I have no ill will at all towards him, I haven’t forgiven him his debt. I haven’t absolved him of his responsibility to pay me. Now suppose the man comes to me in a spirit of humility and relates to me how he is in big financial trouble. He can scarcely put food on the table for his family. His story touches my heart, and I desire to help him. I forgive his debt. I absolve him of all responsibility of that debt. Relations between us are just as if he had never owed me a cent!

Consider God’s forgiveness of us. Does God let go of His feelings of resentment and outrage towards us? Those feelings are not part of the character of God. But God must judge sin. All of God’s judgments are remedial. When He forgives us, he absolves us of all responsibility to Him for the wrong we have done. Because we have repented (changed our mind) about our way of living, and called upon His enabling grace to help us continue in the new way, we are justified in God’s eyes. It is no longer necessary for Him to correct us. It’s just as if we had never sinned. Of course if we slip back into the old ways, God will have to correct us (unless we repent again). Indeed we need to repent daily. Paul stated that he died every day. I Cor 15:51.

This complete forgiveness of which I write, is a response to repentance.

It would be wrong to forgive a person in this complete sense without his repentance. Think of the ramifications, if God were to forgive us without our repentance. This would mean that when Jesus comes, everyone would be acceptable to Him, and we would all go to heaven along with Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden. Hell would not exist. For no correction would be necessary as everyone’s past would be forgiven and forgotten. It would be just as if no one had sinned. Of course we know that this would not work, for the wicked hearts of the many would be unchanged and heaven would be corrupted.

Most of the scriptural teaching on forgiveness speaks of this complete forgiveness.


Luke 17:3,4 Watch yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, 'I repent,' you must forgive him."

Notice in these words of Jesus, forgiveness is contingent upon repentance. You can forgive the same person seven or more times a day if he truly repents. But if he does not repent, it would be wrong to forgive him in this true sense. To do so would be tantamount to telling him that he could continue to do the same evil he was doing, for you would not hold him accountable. A few years back, a young man had murdered several young women. The young people of the community erected huge signs throughout the city, signs which read, “WE FORGIVE YOU, JOEY!â€Â. What message do you think this sent to unrepentant Joey? It sent the message that the community condoned his actions, and would not hold him accountable.

As far as the ill feelings are concerned, the Christian ought not to have these ill feelings anyway, when he is wronged. He ought to have good will towards the one who wronged him. If he is walking with Jesus and listening to His voice, he will carry out Jesus’ instructions to “do good to those who despitefully use you.†But he must continue to hold them responsible for their actions, and must not absolve them of their wrongdoing until they repent.

It may be that the party who has sinned against us, may not come to us and ask forgiveness (Although a truly repentant person normally has a burning desire to do so). However we must see evidence of repentance in that person before forgiving them in this true and full sense.

Some one will say that Jesus declared to the paralyzed man, “Your sins are forgiven you,†without his repentance. It is written that Jesus knew what was in man. He knew that the man had repented. “Ahâ€Â, you say, “but He forgave those people cried out, ‘Crucify him,’ and they certainly had not repented!†Not so! He didn’t forgive them. He prayed to the Father asking the Father to forgive them. Does that mean that the Father forgave them at that moment? No. The Father forgave them when they repented. They were among the 3000 who repented when they heard that powerful word from God through Peter. They were cut to the heart and asked, “Men and Brethren, what shall we do?†Being cut to the heart is often the first step to repentance. Godly sorrow is not repentance, but (according to the Scripture) it leads to repentance. So Peter answered, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.â€Â

Acts 2:38.
Verse 40 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.



Yes, at that time,3000 people repented and were baptized. That number included some, if not all of those who cried out, “Crucify him!†It was on that occasion that God answered Jesus’ prayer to forgive them.

Dear Lord,

Assist me by your enabling grace to keep any ill feelings against anyone from entering into my life. But if they do, let me offer up those feelings at once, without waiting for the offending party to come to me expressing regrets for his actions. However, if the sinner has not repented, let me not berate myself, feeling that I have not REALLY let go of my feelings, thinking that if I had, I would be in total fellowship with him again. You have taught me that this is not so. For unless there is evidence of repentance, I know I ought not to absolve him. Nevertheless, I truly pray for the man. I ask that he will see his need to change his mind about the way he has been living and treating people. I know you have put it in my heart to completely absolve him when he repents. I know that when that happens, my broken relationship with him will be completely mended, and all will be restored as it was before, with nothing between us. It will be just as if he had never sinned.

Dear Father, this is the way that You deal with people. May I show myself to be a true son of yours, by behaving the same way to my fellows.
 
Paidion said:
Danielle, here is a short article I wrote a few years ago on True Forgiveness. I hope it may help in some way.


True Forgiveness

So often the word “forgive†is limited to the concept of letting go of our ill feelings: our hurt feelings and possibly self-pity --- our feelings of resentment --- our feelings of outrage. If forgiveness is thus limited, a full and true forgiveness is never obtained. Let me illustrate with an example.

The word translated as “forgive†is also used with regards to monetary debt, as indeed, it still is so used to this day. Suppose someone owes me some money, which he was supposed to pay in a month, but a year has gone by, and he still has not paid. Now I could allow feelings of resentment and outrage to build in me. Suppose I have made many attempts to get the money, but to no avail. I might even allow self-pity to arise. Now all of these are feelings I ought not to have. Suppose, by God’s grace, I am able to let all of these feelings go. I no longer have any ill feelings against the man. Does this mean I have forgiven him? In the weaker sense of the word, yes. But do I still think he owes me the money? Yes, I do! Though I have no ill will at all towards him, I haven’t forgiven him his debt. I haven’t absolved him of his responsibility to pay me. Now suppose the man comes to me in a spirit of humility and relates to me how he is in big financial trouble. He can scarcely put food on the table for his family. His story touches my heart, and I desire to help him. I forgive his debt. I absolve him of all responsibility of that debt. Relations between us are just as if he had never owed me a cent!

Consider God’s forgiveness of us. Does God let go of His feelings of resentment and outrage towards us? Those feelings are not part of the character of God. But God must judge sin. All of God’s judgments are remedial. When He forgives us, he absolves us of all responsibility to Him for the wrong we have done. Because we have repented (changed our mind) about our way of living, and called upon His enabling grace to help us continue in the new way, we are justified in God’s eyes. It is no longer necessary for Him to correct us. It’s just as if we had never sinned. Of course if we slip back into the old ways, God will have to correct us (unless we repent again). Indeed we need to repent daily. Paul stated that he died every day. I Cor 15:51.

This complete forgiveness of which I write, is a response to repentance.

It would be wrong to forgive a person in this complete sense without his repentance. Think of the ramifications, if God were to forgive us without our repentance. This would mean that when Jesus comes, everyone would be acceptable to Him, and we would all go to heaven along with Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden. Hell would not exist. For no correction would be necessary as everyone’s past would be forgiven and forgotten. It would be just as if no one had sinned. Of course we know that this would not work, for the wicked hearts of the many would be unchanged and heaven would be corrupted.

Most of the scriptural teaching on forgiveness speaks of this complete forgiveness.


Luke 17:3,4 Watch yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, 'I repent,' you must forgive him."

Notice in these words of Jesus, forgiveness is contingent upon repentance. You can forgive the same person seven or more times a day if he truly repents. But if he does not repent, it would be wrong to forgive him in this true sense. To do so would be tantamount to telling him that he could continue to do the same evil he was doing, for you would not hold him accountable. A few years back, a young man had murdered several young women. The young people of the community erected huge signs throughout the city, signs which read, “WE FORGIVE YOU, JOEY!â€Â. What message do you think this sent to unrepentant Joey? It sent the message that the community condoned his actions, and would not hold him accountable.

As far as the ill feelings are concerned, the Christian ought not to have these ill feelings anyway, when he is wronged. He ought to have good will towards the one who wronged him. If he is walking with Jesus and listening to His voice, he will carry out Jesus’ instructions to “do good to those who despitefully use you.†But he must continue to hold them responsible for their actions, and must not absolve them of their wrongdoing until they repent.

It may be that the party who has sinned against us, may not come to us and ask forgiveness (Although a truly repentant person normally has a burning desire to do so). However we must see evidence of repentance in that person before forgiving them in this true and full sense.

Some one will say that Jesus declared to the paralyzed man, “Your sins are forgiven you,†without his repentance. It is written that Jesus knew what was in man. He knew that the man had repented. “Ahâ€Â, you say, “but He forgave those people cried out, ‘Crucify him,’ and they certainly had not repented!†Not so! He didn’t forgive them. He prayed to the Father asking the Father to forgive them. Does that mean that the Father forgave them at that moment? No. The Father forgave them when they repented. They were among the 3000 who repented when they heard that powerful word from God through Peter. They were cut to the heart and asked, “Men and Brethren, what shall we do?†Being cut to the heart is often the first step to repentance. Godly sorrow is not repentance, but (according to the Scripture) it leads to repentance. So Peter answered, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.â€Â

Acts 2:38.
Verse 40 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.



Yes, at that time,3000 people repented and were baptized. That number included some, if not all of those who cried out, “Crucify him!†It was on that occasion that God answered Jesus’ prayer to forgive them.

Dear Lord,

Assist me by your enabling grace to keep any ill feelings against anyone from entering into my life. But if they do, let me offer up those feelings at once, without waiting for the offending party to come to me expressing regrets for his actions. However, if the sinner has not repented, let me not berate myself, feeling that I have not REALLY let go of my feelings, thinking that if I had, I would be in total fellowship with him again. You have taught me that this is not so. For unless there is evidence of repentance, I know I ought not to absolve him. Nevertheless, I truly pray for the man. I ask that he will see his need to change his mind about the way he has been living and treating people. I know you have put it in my heart to completely absolve him when he repents. I know that when that happens, my broken relationship with him will be completely mended, and all will be restored as it was before, with nothing between us. It will be just as if he had never sinned.

Dear Father, this is the way that You deal with people. May I show myself to be a true son of yours, by behaving the same way to my fellows.

Paidon,

Thank you for sharing this article with me. It is truly enlightening. So too has it also given me something to think, pray, and reflect on. I had not truly thought of or percieved forgiveness this way. Forgiveness, I will admit, I had interpreted as the sort of thing in which was readily given in hopes of forgetting and moving past the wrong doing. This has given me a bit of a new perspective in which to possibly see things. The passages you offered too are ones I intend to study over and over again and pray about in hopes to perhaps get some godly wisdom out of.

Although I admit, much of the stress in which lingered over my husband and I in terms of the one who has wronged us is gone.....the pain, a little of the anger, and even bitterness sometimes lingers a bit. It is a blessing to me, I will not deny, that some of these feelings come and go. For I hope that is a possible sign that I will be able to get over the wrongs done and move forward.

My husband and I have already made some rather hard decisions on account of everything that has come to pass. Some in which could have long term effects. That I pray we do not come to regret at some point later on down the road. For although we can still easily harbor love for the one who offended us, it is hard for us to harbor any want or desire to have a real meaningful relationship with him again, especially with our son after he is born. Who knows...maybe in time, this may change. Least, somewhere deep down, I hope so.

Think the first key step to be faced right now is getting past these off and on feelings of bitterness towards the one who upset us. For scripture also tells us we cannot be forgiven if we do not forgive those who wrong us. That is why I sometimes find that I feel forgiveness is so complicated and wish to understand it more. So again, I thank you for sharing. The more insight I get the more enlightened I am and hopefully the closer to being heading in the right direction.

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
Each of us is here for a purpose. For one, it may be to learn patience. For another, humility. Still another may NEED to learn compassion and another charity.

While there are those that strive to obtain a 'better understanding' of each, there are also those that have little regard for any.

If we take the Word literal, (which it MUST be done in order to have a 'CORRECT UNDERSTANDING' of such attributes), then we have the words of Paul offered over and over again.

We are to BE patient. We are to BE humble. We are to BE longsuffering. Etc, ect...the list is given and it is our job to discern it's TRUTH. Some will and some won't.

Now, the IMPORTANT ISSUE:

There ARE those that would 'side-track' others from their persuit of such understanding. Those that BELIEVE that WE are 'all important' so far as OUR wishes are concerned. For these, there IS no 'true love' of others and their main concerns continually focus upon SELF.

Don't allow those of such ilk to influence one into an unnatural, (according to God), affection for ONESELF.

An easy way in which to determine HOW MUCH forgiveness we are to offer: How much forgiveness do we EXPECT from God? Take this into consideration BEFORE making statements about LIMITS of ANY kind.

So long as we exist in the flesh, not a ONE of us is able to live without the NEED for forgiveness. Most of us will NEED it throughout our entire lives OVER AND OVER again. If we are to BE an example of that offered from above, then it IS our DUTY and design to forgive OVER AND OVER again without end. For who are our brothers and sisters other than reflections of ourselves?

A world that prides itself on what it possesses will NEVER understand this concept. And it will influence others in any way possible. Oftentimes Satan is able to offer EXACTLY what we THINK we NEED at the EXACT time that we THINK we NEED IT. He is a 'crafty one'.

What WE must focus on is what we have been given in instruction. For the MORE we are able to follow, the MORE we are able to come to an UNDERSTANDING of the 'why'.

Who needs forgiveness MOST? Those that are least likely, from a worldly standpoint, to even recognize the signifcance of it. Should we EXPECT something in return for forgiveness? A 'pat on the back' or a 'ribbon of acheivement'? See, that IS the biggest problem that many suffer from concerning this subject. NO. ALL that we can hope for is a DEEPER understanding and for those that seek such, IT IS ENOUGH.

I hear Christian talk of 'not letting someone walk all over them'. What defiance from one that has been commanded to FORGIVE. And not only to forgive but TO GIVE. Hmmmmm......It would seem that so many are willing to forgive OR give, so long as it doesn't HURT. But when the 'hurt' steps in, they find all the means that they NEED in order to FORGET what the lesson is.

What if Christ had the attitude; "I'm ONLY going to help these people so long as they ACT like they want it''? Where would we be NOW? And so many that CLAIM to follow Christ cannot even understand the simple principle being offered here.

Forgive others as you would have them to forgive YOU, is a pretty stable and sound basis for a belief. Expecially if that belief happens to be in God and His Son.

Blessings,

MEC
 
I would like to add one little thing to Imagican's fine description of forgiveness. Satan loves to make us think if we don't forget what we forgive then we haven't achieved real forgiveness. The thing is when we forgive we often don't forget since we all have a memory but forgiveness is from the heart anyway and not from the mind. When forgiveness is from the heart we find it easy to set aside that which we forgive but if we never experience true forgiveness from Christ then we have no idea or example of true forgiveness. Forgiveness of course is about love.

Tomlane
 
Lostlamb --- I think you've gotten some good answers here, and I'd like to add another point, actually as an aside to your question and not an actual answer...
To NOT forgive someone is, I think, usually more harmful to you than to the other person, on at least two levels:
For one thing, if you don't forgive an offense against you, you'll never fully release the hurt or anger the offense caused you; for another, the ill feelings you have toward that other person have the potential to continue to grow, growing closer and closer to hate than to the brotherly love Jesus desires from us.
If you doubt the repentance of the offender, keeping your distance as much as possible is a partial solution, as is entering each new encounter with this person with reduced expectations and trust.
Hurt feelings grow commensurate with the surprise of the offense. If you expect this person to do or say something hurtful to you, you reduce the surprise and disappointment if and when it happens again, thus reducing the hurt, thus easing your forgiveness, and at some point, totally taking away their capacity to hurt you again.
 
LostLamb said:
mondar said:
Forgiveness yes...

The right to continue harming someone, no.

Mondar,

Can you perhaps expand a bit on this for me? This way I can be certain I do not misunderstand you.

May God Bless You

Danielle

I am not mondar but I would like to put my two cents.

I think what he means is that we should not close our eyes to evil deeds. God is also God of justice and if we cannot discern just from unjust deeds and continually condone evil deeds, we are certainly is not in line with God.
 
Imagican said:
Each of us is here for a purpose. For one, it may be to learn patience. For another, humility. Still another may NEED to learn compassion and another charity.

While there are those that strive to obtain a 'better understanding' of each, there are also those that have little regard for any.

If we take the Word literal, (which it MUST be done in order to have a 'CORRECT UNDERSTANDING' of such attributes), then we have the words of Paul offered over and over again.

We are to BE patient. We are to BE humble. We are to BE longsuffering. Etc, ect...the list is given and it is our job to discern it's TRUTH. Some will and some won't.

Now, the IMPORTANT ISSUE:

There ARE those that would 'side-track' others from their persuit of such understanding. Those that BELIEVE that WE are 'all important' so far as OUR wishes are concerned. For these, there IS no 'true love' of others and their main concerns continually focus upon SELF.

Don't allow those of such ilk to influence one into an unnatural, (according to God), affection for ONESELF.

An easy way in which to determine HOW MUCH forgiveness we are to offer: How much forgiveness do we EXPECT from God? Take this into consideration BEFORE making statements about LIMITS of ANY kind.

So long as we exist in the flesh, not a ONE of us is able to live without the NEED for forgiveness. Most of us will NEED it throughout our entire lives OVER AND OVER again. If we are to BE an example of that offered from above, then it IS our DUTY and design to forgive OVER AND OVER again without end. For who are our brothers and sisters other than reflections of ourselves?

A world that prides itself on what it possesses will NEVER understand this concept. And it will influence others in any way possible. Oftentimes Satan is able to offer EXACTLY what we THINK we NEED at the EXACT time that we THINK we NEED IT. He is a 'crafty one'.

What WE must focus on is what we have been given in instruction. For the MORE we are able to follow, the MORE we are able to come to an UNDERSTANDING of the 'why'.

Who needs forgiveness MOST? Those that are least likely, from a worldly standpoint, to even recognize the signifcance of it. Should we EXPECT something in return for forgiveness? A 'pat on the back' or a 'ribbon of acheivement'? See, that IS the biggest problem that many suffer from concerning this subject. NO. ALL that we can hope for is a DEEPER understanding and for those that seek such, IT IS ENOUGH.

I hear Christian talk of 'not letting someone walk all over them'. What defiance from one that has been commanded to FORGIVE. And not only to forgive but TO GIVE. Hmmmmm......It would seem that so many are willing to forgive OR give, so long as it doesn't HURT. But when the 'hurt' steps in, they find all the means that they NEED in order to FORGET what the lesson is.

What if Christ had the attitude; "I'm ONLY going to help these people so long as they ACT like they want it''? Where would we be NOW? And so many that CLAIM to follow Christ cannot even understand the simple principle being offered here.

Forgive others as you would have them to forgive YOU, is a pretty stable and sound basis for a belief. Expecially if that belief happens to be in God and His Son.

Blessings,

MEC


Imagican,

I can somewhat understand what you are saying...but what if it is NOT a matter of self.....but rather your own child that is having to pay? I know we are to forgive and do our best to express love, and compassion. That is something I struggle with even now when it comes to the issue I am facing in terms of feelings towards the person who has wronged my husband, myself, and our unborn son.

Just I do wonder...are there really no limits? For even God did forsake Saul after Saul pushed and pushed God away. Our Heavenly Father is perfect, I cannot deny that. I just want to make sure I am understanding what is being put into words here that is all. Will even reread the context you provided to try to grasp it all and pray about it too. For as I said...this has been a real ordeal for me. Though I would like to forgive it is very hard for me seeing as my son's well-being was on the line and to me that was pushing it. Sick father-in-law or no.

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
Back
Top