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Bible Study Gay animals?

M

Max

Guest
A few other people and me got in the debate over gay marriage, and eventually religion got involved, in which I have no problem with.

Somebody raised the question about animal's being gay, such as dogs and cats. Is it wrong? The quote said was

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in the Bible that instructs how animals are supposed to behave, nor is there anything that indicates that animals go to either heaven or hell when they die. That being the case, why does homosexuality exist in almost every species in nature? How or why would animals "sin"?

Just wonder what everybody thinks about this, and if there are any passages about this in the Bible, to please post them.
 
Very interesting question. I used to wonder, when I was a kid, if my cat that died went to heaven. :D

Then I recalled this passage:

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Animals don't have a soul, only humans do.

I would take this to mean that animals do not go to heaven or hell, therefore their actions would not be considered "sin" in the sense that they would require a Savior to cleanse them of any unrighteousness.

In Christian love,
 
Max, there seem to be very few Christians who even ATTEMPT to acknowledge that homosexuality just MIGHT be an orientation that is beyond the 'choice factor' of the individual. I know and have known of some lovely Christian people who are 'that way oriented'. It saddens me (DISGUSTS me, actually) whenever this issue is raised and brings out hoards of insensitive and sanctimonious 'Christian gay-bashers'. I hope that this kind of thing doesn't happen here.

While your question centers on the fact that some animals may have homosexual tendencies, I suspect that you might also be applying 'the natural-ness' of this to human beings. I personally don't have a problem with that notion. Many humans are born with all sorts of 'defects' that are 'natural' for them.

If this thread takes off, your question will most likely be answered with a barrage of condemning scriptures. So, be prepared.
 
SputnikBoy said:
Your question will most likely be answered with a barrage of condemning scriptures. So, be prepared.

Well, that's not what I want at all. It was just a simple question.

I would also like to provide an answer to the guy that asked the question.
 
As an animal lover it saddens me to think that the pets in my life, now and in the past, will not be in heaven. As far as we know, however, animals are not a part of the salvation plan, whether they be 'gay' or not. Then again, we ARE told that the lion will lie down with the lamb ...so, who knows?

Incidentally, I don't mean to get into semantics here but, to the poster above, man BECAME a living soul. He/she doesn't contain a soul ...He/she IS a (living) soul.
 
Max,

Somebody raised the question about animal's being gay, such as dogs and cats. Is it wrong? The quote said was

Quote:
As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in the Bible that instructs how animals are supposed to behave, nor is there anything that indicates that animals go to either heaven or hell when they die. That being the case, why does homosexuality exist in almost every species in nature? How or why would animals "sin"?


Just wonder what everybody thinks about this, and if there are any passages about this in the Bible, to please post them.

To my knowledge, there is nothing in God's word explaining His relationship with the creatures with which we share this existence other than He placed humans over them. (Gen 1:24-28) I take that as something He has decided isn't important that we need to know. He has, however, explained His relationship with us.

How or why would animals "sin"?

As stated just above, to our knowledge animals don't sin. God put into action at creation their behavior; and by observing them, we know how they act and (through biological study) why.

why does homosexuality exist in almost every species in nature?

That is a pretty broad statement. (One that I don't personally agree with) First, Max, if you agree with this statement or not please explain to me your definition of homosexuality/gay. Then we can take a closer look at God's creatures regarding this.


SputnikBoy,

I do pray you will join us in a constructive discussion on the subject at hand. Your first post does not seem to have been created with this in mind. Just an observation.
 
Remember, I say the thing I was quoting a guy from the forums. I thought he had an interesting point, and just wanted to see what everybody else had to say about it here.
 
Max,

Remember, I say the thing I was quoting a guy from the forums. I thought he had an interesting point, and just wanted to see what everybody else had to say about it here.

I understand that. I was opening discussion regarding your original point. If there is no clear definition of homosexuality/gay, the subject cannot be properly delved into.

Everything was created to reproduce. I see (human) homosexuals as those who choose to direct sexual desire toward a partner of the same sex.

Animals have no such desire nor do they purposely seek a same sex partner as humans might.

If you are simply speaking of specific acts of homosexuality, some animals "seem" to participate in such activities. I do not know of any nor do I believe that any animal will purposely (with or without intent of sexual satisfaction (be from love or whatever)) choose and/or submit to a same sex partner. Homosexuals purposely choose/submit to a same sex partner. (It is certainly not done accidentally)

Lets take the dog, for example. I have found that if a male dog is fixed prior to maturity thus never having the opportunity to react to a female in season, most if not all, have no sexual tendencies at all. They could be penned up with a pack of females in full season and have no desire at all to breed and leave them be. The "fixed" male would not be attracted to a male dog, either (no sexuality at all). On the other hand, if a dog is left to maturity and is then "fixed" and knows of the female scents (especially if they have had the opportunity to breed), their brain still reacts to seek the female though their body usually can't respond to breed (though they might be affected as follows:)

If a male dog is permitted to mature intact, when a female comes into season and is close enough for him to notice her scents, his desire to reproduce is aroused. He will try to get to "her". If he can't get to "her", he will get himself worked up enough to start grabbing other things, ie: a lump of straw, a person's leg, another dog, a tire laying on the ground, part of a couch. I have never known any male dog/dogs to have a successful and willing sexual encounter with another male dog. When one male dog dares to try to mount another male dog, they usually end up in a fight because they both want the "female". That is not being homosexual. Do you think the dog that grabs onto a human leg is then trying to purposely participate in beastiality? Of course not.

If you put those same 2 intact, mature dogs with a female in season, they will just keep piling and piling trying to get the "female". No homosexuality again. In either case, it is all because of the female and the God given desire to reproduce. (Gen 1: 22 & 28)

Homosexuals cannot reproduce with each other and do not try to reproduce with eachother. For the male homosexual, the presence of a woman does not (necessarily) prompt their sexual desire. But they do choose to direct sexual desire toward a partner of the same sex. This is human behavior only.

I hope this helps explain the difference.
 
Remember said:
SputnikBoy,

I do pray you will join us in a constructive discussion on the subject at hand. Your first post does not seem to have been created with this in mind. Just an observation.

Sputnik: You're right, Remember, and this is why my second post left it alone. I'm just so used to the moral brigade jumping in as soon as the word 'gay' is used. I guess I'm becoming paranoid.
 
Remember said:
Max,

Remember, I say the thing I was quoting a guy from the forums. I thought he had an interesting point, and just wanted to see what everybody else had to say about it here.

I understand that. I was opening discussion regarding your original point. If there is no clear definition of homosexuality/gay, the subject cannot be properly delved into.

Everything was created to reproduce. I see (human) homosexuals as those who choose to direct sexual desire toward a partner of the same sex.

Animals have no such desire nor do they purposely seek a same sex partner as humans might.

If you are simply speaking of specific acts of homosexuality, some animals "seem" to participate in such activities. I do not know of any nor do I believe that any animal will purposely (with or without intent of sexual satisfaction (be from love or whatever)) choose and/or submit to a same sex partner. Homosexuals purposely choose/submit to a same sex partner. (It is certainly not done accidentally)

Lets take the dog, for example. I have found that if a male dog is fixed prior to maturity thus never having the opportunity to react to a female in season, most if not all, have no sexual tendencies at all. They could be penned up with a pack of females in full season and have no desire at all to breed and leave them be. The "fixed" male would not be attracted to a male dog, either (no sexuality at all). On the other hand, if a dog is left to maturity and is then "fixed" and knows of the female scents (especially if they have had the opportunity to breed), their brain still reacts to seek the female though their body usually can't respond to breed (though they might be affected as follows:)

If a male dog is permitted to mature intact, when a female comes into season and is close enough for him to notice her scents, his desire to reproduce is aroused. He will try to get to "her". If he can't get to "her", he will get himself worked up enough to start grabbing other things, ie: a lump of straw, a person's leg, another dog, a tire laying on the ground, part of a couch. I have never known any male dog/dogs to have a successful and willing sexual encounter with another male dog. When one male dog dares to try to mount another male dog, they usually end up in a fight because they both want the "female". That is not being homosexual. Do you think the dog that grabs onto a human leg is then trying to purposely participate in beastiality? Of course not.

If you put those same 2 intact, mature dogs with a female in season, they will just keep piling and piling trying to get the "female". No homosexuality again. In either case, it is all because of the female and the God given desire to reproduce. (Gen 1: 22 & 28)

Homosexuals cannot reproduce with each other and do not try to reproduce with eachother. For the male homosexual, the presence of a woman does not (necessarily) prompt their sexual desire. But they do choose to direct sexual desire toward a partner of the same sex. This is human behavior only.


I hope this helps explain the difference.
that was a very good analysis, also i would like to add this,

i have raised chickens off and on most of my life, and i have noticed the very same behavior in them as well, if there is a female around the domanant rooster will never mount another rooster, but if there is no hen around when the domanant rooster goes to feeling his oats, he will mount any other chicken in sight, be it young chicks or other roosters, but if it happens to be another rooster, then the other rooster is never a willing partner, only after the domanant rooster whips his tail good will he submit to him, and sometimes while he is just barely still alive, and only in fear that the domanant rooster will kill him, most times if it is a domesticated chicken if he can, he will run, and if it is one of the game breeds, he will often fight to the death, then the domanant rooster will even mount him after he has killed him, so it is not the same as humans,

so again according to this analysis, homosexuality is a trait only displayed in humans, who "choose" to seek out a partner of the same sex, and that partner when found, chooses to submit, in other words what i'm trying to say is that it is a choice that "both" partners make, and that seems to never be the case with animals.

i know that the OP probably does not want to hear this, but, i feel that i should take advantage of this opportunity to speak out against homosexuality,

it is a terrible sin against God and nature, the very first commandment that God ever gave to mankind is "be fruitfull and multiply", not be fruitfull and spread disease and death.

what if adam chose to be gay? would he have gotten by with just being driven out of the garden? i don't think so, not to mention the fact that none of us would have ever existed if he had.
 
i know that the OP probably does not want to hear this, but, i feel that i should take advantage of this opportunity to speak out against homosexuality,

it is a terrible sin against God and nature, the very first commandment that God ever gave to mankind is "be fruitfull and multiply", not be fruitfull and spread disease and death.

what if adam chose to be gay? would he have gotten by with just being driven out of the garden? i don't think so, not to mention the fact that none of us would have ever existed if he had.

I think that there is too much hate against homosexuals in Christians. I'm not saying that Homosexuality is right. But as I see it, it isn't any worse than hetrosexual pre-marital sex. I believe that it is because of this hatred that homosexuals have become so pronounced and started to stand up for themselves. Because of this they have made their homosexuality their whole idenity.
 
Green^Horn said:
Remember said:
Max,

I know that the OP probably does not want to hear this, but, I feel that I should take advantage of this opportunity to speak out against homosexuality ...

Sputnik: ...hence the reason for my initial 'paranoid' post. One can't even discuss 'gay animals (???)' without the moral brigade jumping in to condemn it. The word 'gay' seems to make Christians react in a manner similar to that of Pavlov's dog ...speaking of animals.
 
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