Bible Study God-Man.

[Adriel]

God created man in His own image in His likeness.
Genesis 1:26-27
God placed Man in the garden of Eden with a

command.
Genesis 2:16-17
17 but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

you shall not eat ,for in the day that you eat of it

you shall surely die

Serpent came and brought forth words that

contradicted the words of God.
Genesis 3:4
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not

surely die.

Eve chose to believe the serpent and not God.
You are slave to the one you choose to obey.
Romans 6:16
Don't you realize that you become the slave of

whatever you choose to obey?

Satan is a fallen angel Lucifer , who rebelled

against God. Through Adam and Eve's rebellion to

God's command in the garden of Eden, all

mankind came under the lordship of a fallen

angel. Thus through obedience to serpent

mankind came under the lordship of serpent.

Mankind shifted from the Lordship of God to that

of a fallen angel Lucifer.

There is indeed great difference between a Father

who created a life with His breath and a creation-

an angel who rebelled against God .
Mankind choose the wrong Ruler.
We choose to believe a creation rather than the

Creator.

God had to bring us back to him.



God's eyes are too pure to look on evil.
Habakkuk 1:13
Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot

tolerate wrongdoing.

God doesn't change
Numbers 23:19
Malachi 3:6


Sin is disobedience to God.
God's wrath falls on all who sin , they become

liable to receive the punishments and curses for

disobedience.
Only blood can bring atonement for sin.
Leviticus 17:11
For the soul (or life) of the flesh is in the blood,

and I have given it to you to reconcile your

persons (or souls) upon the altar; therefore the

same blood reconciles the person.

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I

have given it to you to make atonement for

yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes

atonement for one's life.

for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given

you the blood on the altar to purify you, making

you right with the LORD. It is the blood, given in

exchange for a life, that makes purification
possible.

because blood contains life. I have given this

blood to you to make peace with me on the altar.

Blood is needed to make peace with me.



So we find in the old testament there were

required confession and repentance for sins and

animal, bird sacrifices required to bring

forgiveness for sins and animal blood shed in the

altar.

God send His one and only son Lord Jesus Christ to

be our God given Lord and the one who would

save us from our sins and the Godly wrath,

punishments and curses which came upon us

because of the rebellion to the Holy word of God.
God sent His beloved son Lord Jesus Christ to save

mankind from the fallen state sunk in sin .

Lord Jesus Christ drank the cup of God's wrath ,

punishment and curses that was meant for us so

that whoever believes in Him and accepts His

Lordship would be saved from the wrath of God

that was upon us for the rebellion and

disobedience to the command's of God. Jesus

bought us with His sinless blood, and His sacrifice

on the cross.
Romans 10:9-10.
So those under the Lordship of Jesus are not

condemned but saved. But those who are not

under Christ have to bear the wrath of God

,punishment’s of God that is due them.
John 3:17-18

what are we being saved from? Second death!! the

destruction of our souls. In the book of revelation

20:12,14,15
Matthew 25:31-46

In short this can be summarized as ---
God creates Man- Man disobeys God --falls under

wrath of God--God sends His son to save us-- Those

who accept and believe in Him are saved --Men

who choose to believe Christ are saved --those

who choose not are falling for second death but

we receive eternal life and enjoy fellowship with

God as Adam and Eve enjoyed fellowship with God

in the garden of Eden.


Our enemy is Sin , God said to Cain to Rule over

Sin Genesis 4:7, So let’s fight this inner battle and

overcome our weakness to sin and be clothed with

power to do what is right and good .

God indeed rewards and blesses those who obey

Him . Deuteronomy 28-Leviticus 26

 

[About the Son of God]

Hi!

God created man in His own image in His likeness.
Genesis 1:26-27
God placed Man in the garden of Eden with a command.

In his own likeness, but as male and female. Yes.

Genesis 2:16-17
17 but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil
you shall not eat ,for in the day that you eat of it
you shall surely die

Yes, although in the ancient texts the "you" is sometimes plural, not singular; eg: for in the day "you-all" eat of it... a distinction that doesn't translate in English.

Serpent came and brought forth words that contradicted the words of God.
Genesis 3:4
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.

Well, the serpent said something "very subtle" (Genesis 3:1); But I think to grasp the depth of what the bible it telling us, here, it's important to notice that the law of God was not given to Eve, it was given before her creation -- and given only to Adam the man (Genesis 2:16); so what Eve heard must have been second hand; God did not say to Eve, you will die, he said to Adam:

16 καὶ ἐνετείλατο κύριος ὁ θεὸς τῷ Αδαμ λέγων Ἀπὸ παντὸς ξύλου τοῦ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ βρώσει φάγῃ,
... and commanding, [the] Lord God to Adam said: From all of-wood of-the[se] in the paradise you-may, eat!

17 ἀπὸ δὲ τοῦ ξύλου τοῦ γινώσκειν καλὸν καὶ πονηρόν, οὐ φάγεσθε ἀπ’ αὐτοῦ· ᾗ δ’ ἂν ἡμέρᾳ φάγητε ἀπ’ αὐτοῦ, θανάτῳ ἀποθανεῖσθε.
but, from the-wood of-knowledge beautiful and porn, not you-shall-eat-yourself ... [lest] you-die from-death [yourself].

So.... try comparing what God actually said in Gen 2:16 to Eve's statement about what she thinks God said (Genesis 3:2) and notice especially that she misquotes God saying: "and you must not touch it"

Her mistakes are part of her vulnerability to a subtle misdirection from the serpent, for the Serpent uses the plural saying: "you-all (plural) will not die..."

The plurality of the murder foretold by the devil applies to groups of people (and possibly later children.); So, what he said was true -- for not everyone will die -- but it was clearly a misdirection to Eve, and a trap for Adam who loved her.

What I find most interesting is that God doesn't punish Eve immediately for her ignorance -- but he waits for the technicality of the law to be fulfilled before the punishment kicks in; for when Eve first eats the fruit and Adam has not yet eaten -- her eyes are not opened; She appears perfectly safe, rather It is when she 'gave' the fruit to her husband, that the murder begins -- "THEN" their eyes were opened.

I think, as an exegetical hermunetic, Eve is guilty of disobeying Adam, for the scriptural inference is that he had to have given her the law -- Therefore Eve wasn't guilty of disobeying God directly; but of disobeying Adam. And it was Adam who was guilty of a direct transgression:

Paul, who was a Greek scholar, and who was familiar with the LXX (Greek Old Testament) comments on these issues briefly in 1Timothy 2:14:

…13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

I love your thoughts, although there's simply too much in your post to comment on tonight, so I'll stop here.

Blessings! Your brother in Christ, Jesus, --Andrew.

 

[JohnD]

A sub point I'd like to make (if you please)...

Colossians 1:15 (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God the Word (preincarnate see John 1:1-3 / John 1:14) created man in the image he would take in the incarnation.

We can deduce from John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:2 and Isaiah 44:24 that:

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning {God the Word} created the heaven and the earth.

and that:

Genesis 1:26
And {God the Word} said, Let us make man in the image and likeness of {God the Son}...

The plural "us" and "our" in the actual translation is used because God the Word created all things (including man) in the beginning alone by himself. And the only thing God the Father would create is the body of God the Son:

John 1:14 (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 1:5 (KJV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

This is the only way the Bible can make the claim that Jesus is the only Son of God and that there are sons of God in Genesis 6, Job 1 & Job & Job 38 and Luke 3:38 and be accurate. The sons of God are sons of God the Word. Jesus is the Son of God the Father. And we are sons and daughters of God the Father through the adoption afforded us by faith in his Son.

Romans 8:15 (KJV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:23 (KJV)
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Even the "natural branches" of Romans 11:16-28 must receive this adoption:

Romans 9:4 (KJV)
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Galatians 4:5 (KJV)
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Ephesians 1:3-5 (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Genesis 1:26 is an omniscient statement of God the Word referring to his own image (bodily form) that God the Father would create in his omnipotence as to the likeness he (God the Word) would create in his omnipotence. Which is how even though acting alone in creation as Isaiah 44:24 states so clearly... the preincarnate Jesus could say "let us make man in our image and after our likeness..."

Remember also that the Lord Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15).

Temper also Isaiah 44:24 with the understanding that the Father and the Holy Spirit were present at the creation in the beginning (1 John 1:1-2 and Genesis 1:1-2)... Jesus (preincarnate) acted alone / by himself.

Thank you for your indulgence and patience.

God bless.

 

[About the Son of God]

A sub point I'd like to make (if you please)...

No problem ; although I might have trouble keeping up with as many thoughts as you bring into the conversation...

Colossians 1:15 (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

OK.
And by firstborn, I assume you're not trying to use scripture to talk about a time based birth of a body whether a material body or a spiritual body such as the Angels have ; eg: a Spritual body which by it's power can form wind, and fire, as in the Shekina Glory cloud. Rather, in scripture 'firstborn' refers to the Lord's precedence over every other creature in being God's heir ; eg: the ONE who receives the inheritance of the Father to the absolute fullest and who is not a creature, because he existed before all creation happened and he himself *made* all of creation.

eg: I see scripture use 'firstborn' in a specific way, and want to be sure a common misinterpretation is not being implied because firstborn often is assumed to mean 'time' in English.

consider scripture for clarification: The 'firstborn' among the nations, AKA Israel (Exodus 4:22), was not the first nation born in time; for Israel's 'birth' is the result of God's promise to *make* Abraham into a nation but the promise was made when other nations already existed: Cf: Genesis 12:1, Genesis 12:10.

So, either firstborn doesn't refer to time at all, or it refers to other nations being DIS-inherited by God to make room for Israel. In any event, it doesn't refer to when the child of God was actually born.

Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God the Word (preincarnate see John 1:1-3 / John 1:14) created man in the image he would take in the incarnation.

OK.
Although, it does say 'us' and not in 'my' image, but rather in 'our' image; so other interpretations are clearly possible at this point of the discussion.

We can deduce from John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:2 and Isaiah 44:24 that:

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning {God the Word} created the heaven and the earth.

Yes, but I don't see that those passages show he did it alone (sola) as opposed to created it in a unity of some kind with the Father and the Sprit of the Father. eg: Just because scriptures creation accounts require that the Lord and Word be acting in every single act of creation, does not mean God the Father and Spirit were not also involved in the acts of creation; For example, the Spirit of God hovered above the waters in the beginning and which was explicitly involved in turning formlessness into order. Genesis 1:1-3.

So: I do see the Son as the equal and inheritor from the Father, but I see that equality in scripture precisely because the (divine) Son *does* everything the *Father* is doing -- and there is nothing the Father does which his only begotten Son does not also do likewise; The Lord/Son is semantically 'less' than the Father but ONLY in the sense that the Father is the origin or source of the Son (and mysteriously the son's actions). John 5:17-19 (a new beginning/Genesis). Genesis 2:1 (the old sabbath.)

and that:

Genesis 1:26
And {God the Word} said, Let us make man in the image and likeness of {God the Son}...

The plural "us" and "our" in the actual translation is used because God the Word created all things (including man) in the beginning alone by himself. And the only thing God the Father would create is the body of God the Son:

Here, I think we have finally a mistake of some kind, or a very incomplete exegesis.
The Devil, too, was already in existence when God decided to make man. The very fact that there is a tree of 'evil' or 'porn' in the Garden at all, even before man had sinned, indicates that evil was present in the world before man sinned -- and is associated in some way with the tree of Good by it's location.

So it's not at all clear in Genesis 1:26, exactly whom is speaking to whom -- which 'us' and 'our' it is.
The grammar is important; for There is a possibility of a divine 'we', being intended -- where a king decides himself (sola) what his entire nation, armies, and people will do. eg: he speaks on their behalf. But it is also possible, that the 'us' of the sentence is God the Son (pre-incarnate) speaking to the Father, or to an assembly of Angels through whom the Lord chose to work, making them his servants of wind, fire, flame -- the very elements of force used in creation to bring forth light and life.

Hebrews 1:5 (KJV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

hmm.... we'll need to stop, soon, because were getting into areas that have too many sectarian nterpretations to be consistent. Perhaps you don't realize that the sentence you've just quoted is often used to support the thesis that God did say to an angel 'you are my son'. eg: Some sentences can have opposite meanings depending on the vocal inflection given to them. A common example of how language does this would be the Avon cosmetics motto: "You never looked so good."; Depending on how the motto is said, it can be either a massive compliment -- "You never looked *sooooooo* good!", or if spoken flatly, it could indicate a sickly or ugly person in the past with no present compliment intended, eg: if 'so' is taken in the sense "you don't/never look so good."

So -- when you quoted Hebrws 1:5, the statement can be taken either as sarcasm and derision (there is no angel great enough) -- or as challenge to identify a pre-supposed truth among many; In the one case, there is an angel to whom God said this thing -- and in the other case, there isn't.

So, it's not a good sentence to use for exegesis of scripture.
How you or I or anyone else interprets the sentence will be more a function of their emotional state, or how they were first introduced to Hebrew 1:5 -- than of what the scripture can be truly shown to say there by a mere quotation.

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

*sigh*
This, too, is a problematic scripture quote, for the Author of Hebrews is quoting the old testament and messianic prophecies. If you check Hebrew sources (Jewish/Hebrew OT texts), the contain the sentence "prepared me an ear to hear" -- and does not say "body" in that Psalm at all. Although a numbering difference exists between the psalms in the Hebrew bibles vs. the Greek ones -- I'll note that the Greek copies *DO* say 'body' in the psalms; so I'll link to the same psalm in different bibles -- but check both psalm 39 and 40 in both bibles to verify what I'm talking about.

Psalm 40:7 in the Hebrew: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2640.htm
vs:
Psalm 39:6 in the Greek: http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=24&page=39

This is the only way the Bible can make the claim that Jesus is the only Son of God and that there are sons of God in Genesis 6, Job 1 & Job & Job 38 and Luke 3:38 and be accurate. The sons of God are sons of God the Word. Jesus is the Son of God the Father. And we are sons and daughters of God the Father through the adoption afforded us by faith in his Son.

I'm not so sure there is only one way, as you've inadvertently chosen bible verses which are in contention from one copy of the bible to the next. It would be better, as a scripture study -- to use passages which all bible agree on when making strong/extreme statements such as 'only way'. In general, the less controversial the verse used -- the easier it will be to support the point you want to make.

Blessings to you. Your brother in Christ, Andrew.

 

[About the Son of God]

Hi Adriel,
Are you still with us, and being quiet -- or did you just wish to post a more monolog kind of OP and await comments ? I'm curious as to the silence so far.

Eve chose to believe the serpent and not God.

Yes. Although -- she chose not to believe her husband, first.

You are slave to the one you choose to obey.
Romans 6:16
Don't you realize that you become the slave of
whatever you choose to obey?

Indeed. And Paul says, I could wish that everyone stay single as I am...
1Corinthians 7:7-8 ; Matthew 19:10 ; Matthew 22:30

But, if one does marry; as did Eve to Adam, then there is the issue of slavery of each spouse to the other, eg: as a prerequisite to marriage and risk of becoming 'sex slaves', I caution everyone to be very sure a spouse obeys God and that communication between the spouses is good enough that integrity about obedience to God is assured.

Ephesians 5:21-22, 1Peter 5:5

Satan is a fallen angel Lucifer , who rebelled
against God. Through Adam and Eve's rebellion to
God's command in the garden of Eden, all
mankind came under the lordship of a fallen
angel. Thus through obedience to serpent
mankind came under the lordship of serpent.

Yes. We are somewhat married to the devil... as it were.

Sin is disobedience to God.

Or disobedience to anyone God sets over us when they order life in accordance with God's will for us.

God's wrath falls on all who sin , they become
liable to receive the punishments and curses for
disobedience.

Yes. But liable with mercy possible.

Only blood can bring atonement for sin.
Leviticus 17:11
For the soul (or life) of the flesh is in the blood,
and I have given it to you to reconcile your
persons (or souls) upon the altar; therefore the
same blood reconciles the person.

There is certiainly life *in* the blood; but the blood is not life itself.
Even in animals, which have life in them, there is life in the blood -- but not all animals have blood, yet still have life. A starfish is a bloodless animal with life in it. So, it's important to distinguish the spirit that gives life, and the breath of life which finds it's way into the blood -- and the blood itself.

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar;

Correct. The blood must be placed upon the altar to be purified by the Spirit, and become once again a source of life.

it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

Umm... It is the altar which makes a person at-one (atone) with God through the shed blood. The blood is part of flesh and bone, and therefore the blood *by itself* is useless: John 6:62-64.
But: The blood is a container for 'life', and although blood is not life itself, blood *is* the container which exchanges death for life at the altar; so which is more important, the altar or the blood?

Matthew 23:19

If there is no blood, there is nothing to carry to and from the altar -- but if there is no life, there is no use for blood.

for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given
you the blood on the altar to purify you, making
you right with the LORD. It is the blood, given in
exchange for a life, that makes purification
possible.

Explain. Do you see this exchange firstly in a negative light, for giving of blood can be death and punishment and the satiation of revenge; or do you see it merely as an exchange of what has already died for what brings life again? eg: much like carbon dioxide in the blood is exchanged for oxygen in the lungs?

because blood contains life. I have given this
blood to you to make peace with me on the altar.
Blood is needed to make peace with me.

Amen. and how do you see this blood, now, in the present day ?

 

[Adriel]

Hi! Son of God, I am Glad to read your analysis & deep study on my post.

God created Man in His own image,....,male and female he created them.Gen 1:27

He made Man or the Adam later Gen 1:7, but in His creation the two existed together, Eve was the female who was created by God but was not an individual body.

God took a rib out of Man and made Eve.Gen 2:21

Eve answer's the serpent in Gen 3:3 the instruction given by God to them.

Whether someone hear's the word of God or command of God directly or indirectly they have to keep it, whether she heard God's command while still being inside Adam or from Adam the command had to be obeyed.

Eve disobeyed God with whom she had a direct contact. Gen 2:22..... the Lord God ....brought her to the man.

Eve was punished by God and not by Adam, so she transgressed God's command, if it was Adam then we could see a verse where Adam lays a punishment or condemnation on her.


I do not intend to condemn Eve or Adam for their transgression, my message emphasizes mainly on the perfect God who truly willed to bring back His image the Mankind to Himself in righteousness as we were once in the garden of Eden.

To make us realize that we are not ordinary creation, we are His image, we are not the Angels, we are His image, We have a different post in His eyes He gave us a place closest to Him and we will recognize our worth when we realize the nature of God He is,our identity is hidden in Him, we are His image.

The blood is highly valued by God, God is the fountain of life, Holy Spirit is called the living water ,Jesus said I am the life,Life is important, so blood that contains the life of a creature is extremely important to God, He will never ignore the blood.

Jesus bought us by His blood.The blood of Jesus brought peace for us, The blood of Jesus is His life,it was shed on the cross to save us from the sins- for wages of sin is death, blood of Christ saves us from the second death, and it is up to us to turn from all wrong doings and and choose the right path and avoid and forsake the wrongs , because we are the image of a righteous God and not a wrong doing God.
We are the image of God and we must remain as His image in our deeds, words ,thoughts and life.

Our place is with God, not without Him,

My image stay's with me, and should be like me. Your image stay's with you and is like you.
God's image should be staying with God and be like God.

It is written, Be holy because I am holy.

Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Imitate God.

All these scriptures points our place in the eyes of God.

Bible says in Isaiah 54:5
For your Maker is your Husband.....

We Mankind is like a wife and God our Maker is our Husband. And as a wife, We are the companions of God
and His helper.

When we read Genesis 1:28

We will find that God tells us to rule or care or govern or manage His creation, the birds of the sky and creature s on earth and sea, He gave us His creations to take care of them,

Jesus said a slave doesn't know the business of His Master,but we are called to take His burdens, because He made us for this purpose.

Parable of Ten virgins, 5 prepared, 5 not prepared.

So let's get prepared to meet our Husband,Luke 12:43.

God be glorified.

 

[Adriel]

God is a Jealous God.

Deuteronomy 6:14,15
14"You shall not follow other gods,


any of the gods of the peoples who


surround you, 15for the LORD your


God in the midst of you is a jealous


God;


Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or


worship them; for I, the LORD your


God, am a jealous God,


Exodus 34:14English Standard


Version (ESV)


14 (for you shall worship no other


god, for the Lord, whose name is


Jealous, is a jealous God),


God is the Husband of Mankind.



Isaiah 54:5
For your Maker is your husband-- the


LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy


One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is


called the God of all the earth.




God desires the first place in our lives and our first love.




Matthew 10:37
"Anyone who loves their father or


mother more than me is not worthy


of me; anyone who loves their son or


daughter more than me is not worthy


of me.


Matthew 22:36-38
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest


commandment in the Law?”


37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord


your God with all your heart and with


all your soul and with all your


mind.’ 38 This is the first and


greatest commandment.


God desires the first love of our


hearts.


Revelation 2:4
But I have this against you: You have


departed from your first love!


So love God and belong to Him, for

He is indeed the lover of our souls!!!

 

[Adriel]

When God made Adam and Eve and introduced the Husband -wife relation it was union in flesh Gen 2:24

The Union of God our Husband and Mankind is union of the soul of God and our souls.

God has a soul and so do we, soul is eternal.
Mark 14:34"My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death," he said to them. "Stay here and keep watch."


Marriage between man and woman is important, so is the Marriage between God's soul and our soul important.

Earth to some extent is like a shadow of Heaven

Hebrew 8:5
They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven.....

Earthly relations, like Husband - wife, Father Children, Friendship, Master- servant, etc all relate to God and our relations.

 

[About the Son of God]

Hi! Son of God, I am Glad to read your analysis & deep study on my post.

God created Man in His own image,....,male and female he created them.Gen 1:27

He made Man or the Adam later Gen 1:7, but in His creation the two existed together, Eve was the female who was created by God but was not an individual body.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

Genesis 1:7 refers to the one act that God does not explicitly call 'Good', eg the cutting or rending of the waters.
The statement in Genesis 1:7 does refer to the material order of creation of physical bodies, but is not an act of direct creation but of rending, cutting, or an act which can also be seen as a form of killing.

There is an analogy to killing in reproduction. Vis: A donation or giving-up of 'part' of a pre-existing body is required to make room for another body ; like a seed must 'die' in order to sprout, or a mother give up part of her flesh and bone in order for a child to grow within her (and she lactates, which is connected to mechanisms which will both cannibalize the mother's bones and literally sacrifice the integrity of the mother's body in order that a child be given food, *iff* there is not enough food for them both...)

So, I'm thinking:
Often, in ancient culture, the male/female relationship in nature is associated with the farmer slicing/cutting through the earth with a plow (Adam was a farmer); or more generically a 'male' plowing a 'female' to bury the seed. It is not a coincidence that the idea is applied equally to farming, and to the sexual act of reproduction in human bodies in ancient writings; and so -- even though I am not sure exactly how -- I know Genesis 1:7 can be interpreted that way -- but I don't know for sure what you are trying to explain by that verse.

What I read in the Genesis text is two different perspectives or accounts regarding the creation of man; in the first story of creation, up to verse 2:4 -- we have an unresolved 'inclusive' question of what/which God and/or work crew God speaks to, since the word "we" is used; and unfortunately angels or spiritual beings are known both as "sons of God", and "god's", throughout the old testament; so that the statement in Genesis 1:26 is very ambiguous.

eg: The devil 'herself' (apparently an ancient tradition) is called a 'god' (a seductress) and is therefore potentially included in the "we" of Genesis 1:26. ( Not a pleasant thought. )

So when you say, "was not an individual body"; could you be more precise where you get this idea from scripturally?

I know from scripture that the two (Adam and Eve) are always one "flesh", as opposed to two people becoming one "flesh" after the fact, as happens in marriage today -- but even so, as far as I can tell, scripturally, Adam and Eve *became* two distinct bodies the moment Eve was created and permanently remained that way until death parted them.

So - If you understand well enough to clarify -- in what way, or by what mechanism, or method, do you account Eve to "not" have a separate body according to scripture before the time of Jesus,the Christ ?

Do you mean, merely, that she shared Adam's flesh and bone -- although her body and somataform -- was distinct, eg: I mean, that I assume what she felt in her body was traced to distinct causes from what Adam felt in his body and that Adam's nerves did not somehow send messages to Eve's brain... as opposed, to a new creation where Jesus may be able, somehow, to hear, touch,taste and feel everything we feel.... (for he says, What you did to the least of my brothers, you did unto me. etc.)

 

[Adriel]

I apologize for the mistake,it was not 1:7 , I was referring to Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

 

[About the Son of God]

I apologize for the mistake,it was not 1:7 , I was referring to Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

That's OK. It happens... !!!recalculating!!!.... ;)
And bracketing the change:

God created Man in His own image,....,male and female he created them.Gen 1:27

He made Man or the Adam later [ Gen 2:7 ], but in His creation the two existed together, Eve was the female who was created by God but was not an individual body.

God took a rib out of Man and made Eve.Gen 2:21

Eve answer's the serpent in Gen 3:3 the instruction given by God to them.

There is a way what you say makes sense to me, and a way in which it doesn't ; and I'm still uncertain how to begin.
Eve is definitely Adam's Flesh; so there was a covenant even before there was a sexual marriage between the two.

But, I'm still a little bit lost;
There are two creation accounts, the first one from Genesis 1:1 to 2:4, with a transition verse 2:5, and then a second account from 2:6 to 2:25.

The two accounts are focused on slightly different topics. The first one focuses on the creation of the universe as a whole, and in the wild state; whereas the second focuses on the creation of a place with domestication (a garden), and worship, and marriage. The second creation account, Eden, is also the place where we eventually find the cherubim -- eg: the temple chariot of God which is the mobile vehicle of the temple's holy of holies ; And I know that wherever the chariot/cherubim is after the sin of Adam with Eve, (eg: it moved from Eden to the temple in Jerusalem for a while) it became a place where only priest men could enter; women who tried to enter the holy of holies were under a death sentence, as is witnessed by a stone found at the temple of Jerusalem's excavation site.

But back to Genesis....
I don't get a clear sense of 'time' between these two creation stories, and I don't know what you mean by 'he made man later'
I can't say all events in Genesis 1 occurred before all those in Genesis 2; or vice versa. So -- I don't know what you mean -- other than perhaps the story of Adams individual creation by God as a person comes later in the bible's verses... ? But that doesn't seem to fit the context...

What I do notice, is that in the first creation account, God gives a Law to both the male and Female AKA 'man', and this Law is that they may eat of all trees, period. no exceptions. Genesis 1:29. There is no rule forbidding Eve, in the first account, from eating of any tree whatsoever while her body is not yet distinguished from man's; and it is as the image of God that they eat.

It is only in the second account, where man is created with individual bodies, Genesis 2:7, Genesis 2:21-22, but bodies which come from a single source of flesh, Adam's Earthy flesh, that God gives a Law forbidding eating -- and that rule is given only to Adam. Eve was not yet created when the Law was given:

Genesis 2:16 , 1Timothy 2:12-13.

So, I still don't understand what you mean by man created later.... Because it seems when they are spoken of together in Genesis 1, there is no law forbidding Eve from eating the food from the tree but a law giving her free reign to eat without exception; But when they are spoken of apart, there is only a Law given to Adam saying he must not eat. In either event, Eve was not forbidden from Eating the fruit of the tree as far as I can see -- and I still notice strongly that when she (alone) ate the fruit, her eyes were not opened.

It is only when Eve gave the food to Adam, that the law, itself, was truly broken; And I notice, that's exactly what Adam accuses her of: Genesis 3:12.
So I'm not sure, other than a common Christian tradition / assumption (which if that's what you are citing, that's fine) where the law was ever given to Eve at all... or that she had to obey the actual law.

I'm also thinking -- that the specific punishment God places upon the woman is inflicted by her husband getting her pregnant. She would never have the pangs of child birth, if Adam had not had sexual relations with her.
That goes right back to Eve disobeying Adam, by Eve receiving a curse through Adam, does it not?

cf: Genesis 3:16 "for your desire shall be toward your husband, but he shall rule over you."

I know it might smack a bit of man lording it over woman in 'revenge'? ... perhaps in a baal/pagan type of lust and domination ritual? But -- I don't see anything inconsistent in it; She broke what Adam told her, is inferred, so Adam is forced to be the one to instigate her punishment and salvation. God bound the punishment to the very man she hurt.

Also, just a thought -- perhaps it's easier for you (as a woman) to enjoy the somewhat romantic idea of being married to Christ, Jesus in the wedding supper of the lamb; cf: Revelation, but as a man, I am a bit nervous about the expression 'marriage' for it's like. :neutral ... a man marry's a man ! [God] !? I know it's scripture -- but I wonder about the translation, sometimes... it seems like we should say 'covenant' or something.... dunno...

Most of the rest of what you are saying makes sense to me, and is quite beautiful.
Blessed be God forever.

 

[About the Son of God]

Just some notes to clarify bible translations, and be a bit sensitive about gender issues....

Genesis 2:16 -- is translated 'to Man' in the KJV, but the original Hebrew explicitly says "Ha Hadam" (To Adam).
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-16.htm

So, the translation of the KJV is not wrong, but it's missing a more literal reference to Adam.
Additionally, to the Hebrew, you can also check the Greek to verify it is not just 'man' but to Adam (τῷ Aδαμ) as well.
Genesis 2:16. καὶ ἐνετείλατο κύριος ὁ θεὸς τῷ Aδαμ λέγων ἀπὸ παντὸς ξύλου τοῦ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ βρώσει φάγῃ

That's why Paul says "Adam" and not just Man.
1Timothy 2:14. Ἀδὰμ γὰρ πρῶτος ἐπλάσθη, εἶτα Εὕα: καὶ Ἀδὰμ οὐκ ἠπατήθη, ἡ δὲ γυνὴ ἐξαπατηθεῖσα ἐν παραβάσει γέγονεν. σωθήσεται δὲ διὰ τῆς τεκνογονίας,

Final note, I don't wish to be anti-woman here on the forums by quoting 1Timothy 2:14; That passage is not a prohibition against women discussing religion; for Even in the temple of Jerusalem where Paul worshipped, there was a porch for women -- then men - and finally priests and Paul commends women as well; Roman 16:1-3, but he is very defensive when it comes to being in a holy place and having women over-rule their 'husband' during a worship ritual/liturgy/public work. eg: He would not allow a woman to lead a re-enactment (anamnesis) of Jesus' last supper, or acts which relate to re-enacting the events of undoing the damage done by Eve in the garden of Eden through the tempting of her husband.

Blessings to you, and I've enjoyed your posts so far.

 

[About the Son of God]

Well it's been several days, so I suppose the thread may be ending now.
I just wanted to say, Thank you, Adriel for posting this thread and taking the time to share with us your thoughts.
:nod I enjoyed reading them as far as I understood them.