God spoke creation in existance, does that make us words of God?

[Pizza]

Could you please be less vague? If you see it going in a wrong direction, can you please state the foreseen error that it might keep anyone in this thread from being misdirected?

DISCUSSIONS OF CHRISTIANITY AND SCIENCE ARE OFF LIMITS, that forum is closed.
Threads that belong there which are posted elsewhere will be deleted - this is from the admins.

Is that clear enough for all?

 

[Sparkey]

Easier to preach 'God is One' than it is to try to teach that 'We are Word'.

Jesus is the Word of God. On that point you will get no (or very little) dispute [here].
Some are called to be part of the five (5) virgins of wedding feast, the Bride of the Bridegroom.
There is a mystery there (too); the two shall be one flesh.
It's a well known mystery that is also well documented since (and especially since) it is *now* declared and revealed, thanks to the Holy Spirit through God-Sent-One, Paul.
Add to that the fact that God is no respecter of persons.

Still with me? It's all true, after a manner of speaking.
But emphasis must be placed on the last phrase; the "manner" of speaking

You've heard it said, "Know ye not that ye are gods?" ​

That was Jesus speaking. He is indeed the Word of God and is with God from the beginning and we shall be (shall become) like Him even if we don't yet know what that means. But the fact remains, we don't know what that means. It's a 1John 3:1;3:2 and 1John 3:3 thing.

Now just toss in the fact that the man known as Jesus, the Christ, is flesh. Born of the flesh (like as we). No bout a doubt it. We are flesh too. Viola!

Further, it's not only us who are to be considered vibration. All things are vibration according to string theory. All stuff, not just things. Every part of the time/space continue-US-ium, and not just us. But that does not mean that we were created out of something other than the common dust of the earth.

And since there is a method of teaching called Aristotle's method there is also a reason to quote James (from James 3:1-2) who speaks about "teaching" even if it is done under the guise and seeming safety of asking questions only. God sees hearts. You know this.

So let's not forget that Adam was made from dust and the 2nd adam (the second red-dust), Jesus, is conceived of the Spirit Holy by the virgin. That's a miracle but it doesn't mean that Jesus did not come in the FLESH. He did. He was tempted like as we. No mystery there. We are all familiar with how we are tempted.

 

[Edward]

Ok, here's a twilight zone idea for you all, lol. I've thought about this creation thing before and how God spoke the universe into existance and so forth, and let's take a closer look at it for a moment shall we?

Genesis 1:1-5
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day./(KJV)

First God created the heavens and the earth. But the earth was without form (!) and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters and then he spoke, and said let there be light...

So could it be, that the various life forms on earth are largely made up of light?. There was a planet and oceans, but no life yet the way I read it. Then God said let there be light, and things began happening fast then.

So while God spoke the universe into existence (I'm not denying that in the least)...it reads and seems to me, that light itself plays a huge part in life and perhaps even the creation of life.

I dunno. Some of Edward's thoughts...don't laugh too hard, lol.

 

[Sparkey]

DISCUSSIONS OF CHRISTIANITY AND SCIENCE ARE OFF LIMITS, that forum is closed.
Threads that belong there which are posted elsewhere will be deleted - this is from the admins.

Is that clear enough for all?

It's not. Not really. You mean that I can't even mention that God created man from dust? Or you mean that I can't say "String Theory"? Or do you mean that I can't say them both in the same post?

I used to be one of the Mods for Christianity and Science and there was a certain liberty that we, as members, had. Maybe it could be posted there, maybe and sometimes, it could be posted here in Gen Talk (or if you'd rather, here in The Lounge) which is NOT a debate forum but rather a place for casual discussion like I thought we were having.

But maybe you'll like to bring out the rule book and slap me with a naughty point for public reply to a Moderator. But you should have thought of that before you gave me permission by asking if it was clear, now shouldn't you, you, who seem extra-willing to yell in red letter. Harrumph! You asked if that was clear to me (you said 'clear enough for all' and I'm part of that group), so... Let me ask in return, "Are you sure you had cause for yelling?"

You certainly do have my permission to delete my posts, every single Mod here does. And, it's true, as I am fond of saying, that I won't stop there. You may even insert words that I've never said and attribute them to me and what will I do? Pray for me, if that should ever happen, because I plan on standing silent, like a lamb before the slaughter, and that, my friend, isn't like me. Not one bit.

 

[YosefHayim]

DISCUSSIONS OF CHRISTIANITY AND SCIENCE ARE OFF LIMITS, that forum is closed.
Threads that belong there which are posted elsewhere will be deleted - this is from the admins.

Is that clear enough for all?

I think it would have been just as clear without extra large red font. Thank you. I was not sure if you thought it was going in a direction, that perhaps maybe you thought was going in the direction of a particular ideology you don't want discussed here (such as the promotion of other religions, which this is not.)

I'm sorry this site has limited thought provoking even more. Why is the science forum closed? Never really been in it, so I had no idea it was.

This thread had more-so theological questions, which I suppose scientific aspects can't help to enter. But being theological, minus the "vibration" aspect which was a side thought, I still have the same question.

 

[YosefHayim]

You've heard it said, "Know ye not that ye are gods?"

But what was this implying? Was Jesus confirming the psalmist as saying men are gods?

I find this hard to believe, because Jesus said in the Old Testament (I say Jesus because he said the same): "I am the first and the last, beside me there are no gods". He also said "I alone am God, there are none before me, neither are there any after me".

This is enough for me to completely regard the "little gods" doctrine as satan's doctrine of Genesis 3:5.

I've heard the psalm interpreted two ways:

talking to men who exalt themselves as gods, that they would die like men.

talking to the fallen angels which would die like men.

 

[Sparkey]

I'm glad that you don't get and haven't been sucked into the "little gods doctrine" because I was NOT trying to teach that either.

Jesus was confounding the enemies of the gospel and only seemingly took liberties (you can't rightly said to 'take' what you have full possession of and He is given full permission to speak the Word of Truth (even more than Prophets although we don't see them at the moment either).
The tasty sound-byte was designed to infuriate them. I think He knew exactly what He was doing. Upon Him was flowing the Holy Spirit without measure. If we had that we'd likely implode because we are still in sin. But we are being called out of that utterly so that in truth we may be able to say, "Jesus has delivered us from sin."

But for the moment, I get to say, "Your Redeemer is strong!" And we all know that God said, "Be thou holy for I am holy." I might also notice that it's okay for me to try to be your goöl, sometimes also spelled gaal (meaning kinsman). We are kinsmen. We are blood relatives. You get to be like Jesus for me and any time you hear me make a little mistake (or transgression or sin that does not lead to death) and you shoot up a quick prayer for my benefit ---> That's a PRIESTLY thing to do. Ask for covering sin. Love covers a thing. God said, "Ask and I shall give life."

According to 1 John 5:15, and based upon the fact that we have 'The Divine Life' in us, and as we abide in the Lord (John 15:7,16), and we are one with Him in our prayer to God (John 16:23-24), we will have what we ask for!

 

[YosefHayim]

I just had another pondering about "the Word".

If Jesus is the Word, and God is the word, the father is God, and God is one:

Scripture says:
"The flowers fade, but the WORD OF GOD ENDURES FOREVER."

Thus can we view this verse as a verse of security? If we are reconciled to the Father, who is God, and God is the Word, then we are reconciled to the WORD which endures forever.

Scripture also says:

"The outward man (the flesh) fades away, but the inward man (the redeemed spirit of man through the blood of Christ) is renewed day by day.

 

[Sparkey]

You have a very slippery mind. So do I (especially sometimes but I'll take my hat off to you, sir). That means that we get to see metaphor and analogy quite readily. It also means we get stuff packed into us quite well.

You know who The Grabber is (it's a statement, not a question). I love that whole "God-Fighter" name change for Yakov, and I love the "Terror of Yitzhak" too. For those wanting to be clued in to what that was all about here it is: Yitzhak is Yakov's dad. And Yitzhak (Issac) is the most mysterious forefather of them all.

Okay, now I can go back and ponder what our brother just said. It takes a clear mind to think about new stuff. A cleared mind and trust. But take a look at his avatar and then glance at my siggy. We're striving to say the same things.

YosefHayim Did you notice that we both said essentially the same thing to poor Pizza, who has God's Grace and deserves and needs our grace, every bit as much as we do? It's the Col 4:6 Conversational Grace that I should have ready, especially for a person who chose the name of Pizza, right?

 

[Brother Mike]

In Genesis God spoke things into existence. Then we see him form man from dust. Now, does that make us created through a different medium, than that of God's first medium of speaking?

But if he spoke dust into existence, he crafted his words into something else, and words would be an ingredient of the composition of man.

Hebrews says that all things are sustained by the word of his power. Speaking is sound, and all things are vibration.

So are we words (but not God), being made image of the Word (God, Jesus Christ)?

Nothing is created without the Word. We shall go to the other side was more than enough to get them to the other side and not fear the storm, and Let us make man in our image was the word spoken, and blueprint of man.

Everything made that was not seen came from the the substance of God's faith, and faith speaks.

And NO, Jesus is not the Word of God, His name means the Word, and was sent in the last days to speak the Word. He is the Son of God, not some word of God.

What God spoke, in Psalm a son is born, came to pass, and the Word was made flesh, as promised, but something coming to pass, does not mean a tree is the word, or a mountain is the Word.

Mike.

 

[YosefHayim]

And NO, Jesus is not the Word of God, His name means the Word, and was sent in the last days to speak the Word. He is the Son of God, not some word of God.

Jesus is the eternal Word of God, which is God (John 1:1,14). His name means "Iehouah is Salvation".

 

[YosefHayim]

Did you notice that we both said essentially the same thing to poor Pizza,

No I didn't. I didn't really read the whole reply to him you wrote the first time I read it. I saw the beginning and figured I got the gist of it at "I was once a moderator there" and scrolled down.

I hope I didn't come off harsh to him. Not my intentions. Just speaking my mind.

I'll buy him some pizza.

 

[Pizza]

I think it would have been just as clear without extra large red font.

Several of us here use the RED FONT to indicate that we are speaking as a mod or admin, therefore the content of the post is instructional or of a warning nature.
No red font, we are posting as just your average member.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jesus is the eternal Word of God, which is God (John 1:1,14). His name means "Iehouah is Salvation".

Right, but your misunderstanding that verse. Jesus is not a word of something. In Fact, He said he did not even speak of his own, but what he heard of the Father.

See, this Word spoke here.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
(Psa 2:7)

Came to pass here.
Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh_1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

We see what God declared come to pass here.
Act_13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

God declares the Son, I have begotten thee, that word become flesh that God spoke and came to pass, the Son coming from the bosom of His Father, the Word that He spoke happened.

Now if your reading this with some type of Oneness doctrine, then I can see how it might be confusing, but if you just read scriptures, see what God spoke, what came to pass, what God declared, then you will see it does not make Jesus a word part of a god, but Actually the Son of God who came in the last days to speak His Fathers Word.

Heb_1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

See, He sent his Son to speak the Word, and the name of Jesus means the Word, but He is not the Word of God itself, He is a person, who sits on the Right hand of His Father.

That should clear things up. It takes a Apostolic doctrine to get this messed up.

Mike.

 

[YosefHayim]

Jesus is not a word of something. In Fact, He said he did not even speak of his own, but what he heard of the Father.

He's the eternal word of God, which was with God, and was God. He did not speak of himself because he was the word of God in the flesh.

some type of Oneness doctrine

I believe in the trinity. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one"

"I and the father are one. I am in the father, and the father is in me" - Jesus

"Hear, O Israel, Yehouah thy God is Achad (One, a Unity)"

 

[Douglas Summers]

In Genesis God spoke things into existence. Then we see him form man from dust. Now, does that make us created through a different medium, than that of God's first medium of speaking?

But if he spoke dust into existence, he crafted his words into something else, and words would be an ingredient of the composition of man.

Hebrews says that all things are sustained by the word of his power. Speaking is sound, and all things are vibration.

So are we words (but not God), being made image of the Word (God, Jesus Christ)?

Hi Joseph, I believe God answers everything we need to know in Scripture. Are we to say to God, why hast thou made me like this........(Rom. 9: 20-21). For the secret things belong to God, but those things that are revealed belong to us.................(Deut. 29: 29) (1 Cor. 1: 18-21). God gave us everything we need to know, and we have trouble even with that.

In Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[Brother Mike]

He's the eternal word of God, which was with God, and was God. He did not speak of himself because he was the word of God in the flesh.


I believe in the trinity. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one"

"I and the father are one. I am in the father, and the father is in me" - Jesus

"Hear, O Israel, Yehouah thy God is Achad (One, a Unity)"

I thought I saw something, could be wrong. Trinity does not make Jesus the Word of God, wake up, that is Oneness, you don't even know what you believe. Trinity never even used scriptures, not one single scripture but Oneness did, and your Oneness, not Trinity, or just confused.
Jesus is the 2nd person in the God head, The Son of God. Not some word part of god, or God manifest as the Word, that's Oneness.
One thing I do know, I have wasted my time.

Mike.

 

[YosefHayim]

I thought I saw something, could be wrong. Trinity does not make Jesus the Word of God, wake up, that is Oneness, you don't even know what you believe. Trinity never even used scriptures, not one single scripture but Oneness did, and your Oneness, not Trinity, or just confused.
Jesus is the 2nd person in the God head, The Son of God. Not some word part of god, or God manifest as the Word, that's Oneness.
One thing I do know, I have wasted my time.

Mike.

Trinity Scripture (The oft denied inspired Johannine Comma)
1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

Jesus is the only begotten son of God, God of God, the eternal Word of God. (John 1:1; 1:14; 3:16).

Scripture says there are three distinct persons, which are all of the same essence.

I know you think unless its in scripture it's unscriptural (Whether it be a synonym or concept), so I'm simply posting verses.

I don't have a problem with these bible verses.


But you keep using the word "oneness" as a muslim uses "polytheist" against the trinity.

 

[Brother Mike]

Trinity Scripture (The oft denied inspired Johannine Comma)
1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

Jesus is the only begotten son of God, God of God, the eternal Word of God. (John 1:1; 1:14; 3:16).

Scripture says there are three distinct persons, which are all of the same essence.

I know you think unless its in scripture it's unscriptural (Whether it be a synonym or concept), so I'm simply posting verses.

I don't have a problem with these bible verses.


But you keep using the word "oneness" as a muslim uses "polytheist" against the trinity.

Well, Trinity does not see Jesus as some word part of a god, Oneness uses that. Trinity does not use John saying the Word was God, the same as the Word to refer to Jesus being a word. That is Oneness.

However, Polytheist believe there is a Father and Son as mentioned in 52 scriptures and the Modern version of Trinity says there are 3, but the mystery of Christian faith is that they are ONE. Oneness says there is 1 that shows up in 3 different persons.

It's a discussion for another thread, so not to derail your thread, let's get back to the Spoken Word, and what was created by it.

Blessings

Mike.

 

[YosefHayim]

Well, Trinity does not see Jesus as some word part of a god, Oneness uses that. Trinity does not use John saying the Word was God, the same as the Word to refer to Jesus being a word. That is Oneness.

However, Polytheist believe there is a Father and Son as mentioned in 52 scriptures and the Modern version of Trinity says there are 3, but the mystery of Christian faith is that they are ONE. Oneness says there is 1 that shows up in 3 different persons.

It's a discussion for another thread, so not to derail your thread, let's get back to the Spoken Word, and what was created by it.

Blessings

Mike.

Ok. I got it. 1 John 5:7 is a 4th person.