Godly love: from man or from God

[Anthony02]

Hoping this is the correct section. If not, my apologies.

I wanted to get a few random opinions with regard to what a friend of mine and I were talking about earlier today. Not here to argue, just interested to hear (read?) everyone's thoughts / comments / opinions.

Now before I get to my question, let me say this. It's my belief that there is a worldly love - a selfish, watered-down love that most of us experience. It's also my belief that there is a Godly love that can flow --through-- us. The former is tainted by self - by jealously, insecurities and selfishness - among many other things. The latter is not.

Isaiah 55:8: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD."

We can see that, according to scripture, our thoughts are not His thoughts. But if I am able to "see" his thoughts by the power of the Holy Spirit, can I then say that those thoughts are mine? I personally don't think so. I am but a mere vessel of which truth is being transferred through, and out to whomever, wherever. Any wisdom (whether small or great) is not of me / us (neither my mind, my body nor my spirit), but rather of God. I am not God, so I can't take credit for these thoughts. Agree?

Alright, so using that same logic, I'll move on to my question. The fruit of the Spirit are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. If we bear the fruit (true love and true joy and true peace, etc) of the Holy Spirit (which is God), is that love, joy and peace FROM us? Whoever or whatever "us" is - our bodies, our spirits, our souls? Would I be wrong in saying that it (true love, peace, joy, etc) flows through us, but that it is not OF us? Is it not true that it (true love, peace, joy, etc) is OF God but that WE reap the benefits of such fruit when the Holy Spirit indwells us? Or is it your belief that true Godly love is manufactured by our own mind, or body, or soul, or spirit?

Thanks.

 

[Tina]

Some Christians claim to show "Godly love" on one hand and on the other, they turn around and engage in all kinds of selfish arguments or display signs of arrogance, superiority, self-righteousness or bitterness and unreasonable anger.

This isn't from God but hypocritically working in the flesh. The person who is able to love unconditionally in all and any situation including enemies must truly be the one demonstrating Godly love produced by the Holy Spirit.

 

[childeye]

=Anthony02;615306]

Would I be wrong in saying that it (true love, peace, joy, etc) flows through us, but that it is not OF us?

You would not be wrong.

Is it not true that it (true love, peace, joy, etc) is OF God but that WE reap the benefits of such fruit when the Holy Spirit indwells us?

It is true, even as The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truith.

Or is it your belief that true Godly love is manufactured by our own mind, or body, or soul, or spirit?

Your entire post is addressing the inherent semantics involved when one is talking from two perspectives, one subjective and the other objective. Using the term Godly Love is the acknowledgment that such a Love is the attributes of the maker not the thing made.

 

[Anthony02]

Some Christians claim to show "Godly love" on one hand and on the other, they turn around and engage in all kinds of selfish arguments or display signs of arrogance, superiority, self-righteousness or bitterness and unreasonable anger.

This isn't from God but hypocritically working in the flesh. The person who is able to love unconditionally in all and any situation including enemies must truly be the one demonstrating Godly love produced by the Holy Spirit.

Thanks, Tina. Yes, I agree.

When some do showcase unconditional love, though, who should take credit for that non-worldly love? Should we say, "we are so kind?" Or should we shine our light towards God, give Him all the credit and say, "we are so kind because of Him?"

When that true, Godly love seeps through us somehow, is it created by a source other than God (i.e.: our mind, body, soul or spirit), or is it a result of having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? If true love is being transmitted through our bodies and out into the world, was that true love manufactured, from scratch, by our bodies? Or are we (our bodies) simply reaping the benefits of such glorious traits, and that we can't take credit for them because they are not really ours?

In other words, when we become all the things God is (loving, and joyful, and truly peaceful, and kind, and truly good, faithful, and gentle), is it us (mind, body, soul, spirit) that are the creators of all of these traits? Or is it God those qualities belong to and once He indwells us, we also become those things - things, we on our own, are not capable of producing in their purest form?

I'm not sure if this is a good example, but imagine a child of a wealthy man saying, "I'm rich!" In reality, yea', the kid -is- rich, but that wealth, even though the child is reaping the benefits, is not really his. If it was his, then his father couldn't not give him any of the money. But that isn't the case. He could say, "you're getting nothing from here on in" at any point in time.

Basically, the kid can enjoy and do whatever it is his heart desires with the money his father gives him, but the credit goes to his father because the father is the one manufacturing this steady income, not the child.

 

[Anthony02]

=Anthony02;615306]
Your entire post is addressing the inherent semantics involved when one is talking from two perspectives, one subjective and the other objective. Using the term Godly Love is the acknowledgment that such a Love is the attributes of the maker not the thing made.

Thanks for the thoughts, childeye. Goes without saying, but I totally agree.

 

[Tina]

When some do showcase unconditional love, though, who should take credit for that non-worldly love? Should we say, "we are so kind?" Or should we shine our light towards God, give Him all the credit and say, "we are so kind because of Him?"

Self-praising boastful people hardly give glory to God and whatever love they pretend to show falls suspicious.


Proverbs 27:2
Let another man praise you, and not your own mouth; A stranger, and not your own lips.

When that true, Godly love seeps through us somehow, is it created by a source other than God (i.e.: our mind, body, soul or spirit), or is it a result of having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? If true love is being transmitted through our bodies and out into the world, was that true love manufactured, from scratch, by our bodies? Or are we (our bodies) simply reaping the benefits of such glorious traits, and that we can't take credit for them because they are not really ours?

I believe that everyone is created to love to a certain extent, even the meanest people we know like Hitler or Osama. No love is manufactured "from scratch" by our bodies. Some people just grow out of love and turn cold, bitter and resentful due to awful circumstances.

Some people, in fact many who are not even Christians, seem to have the special gift of love much more than others.

For those who are already blessed with this natural trait, they should still give glory to God for the conspicuous love that exudes from them. Humility is a much desired virtue in this instance especially for Christians. For people (like me) who were not blessed with the natural ability to love, whatever amazing love that we able to demonstrate must surely come from God and be a working of the Holy Spirit, in which case, we are also reminded to give due glory to God.

I'm not sure if this is a good example, but imagine a child of a wealthy man saying, "I'm rich!" In reality, yea', the kid -is- rich, but that wealth, even though the child is reaping the benefits, is not really his. If it was his, then his father couldn't not give him any of the money. But that isn't the case. He could say, "you're getting nothing from here on in" at any point in time.

Basically, the kid can enjoy and do whatever it is his heart desires with the money his father gives him, but the credit goes to his father because the father is the one manufacturing this steady income, not the child.

Sure, but if the child takes and squanders away the inheritance, it also brings shame and regret to the father.

Likewise, the supernatural gift of love that God imparts must be shared the right way and humble way lest we bring disgrace to the Father by not giving Him the glory He deserves.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I feel like I'm taking an easy way out here. I don't think the answer to this is "God" or "Self." The "self" for the Christian is undergoing constant improvements. Self is handed over to God to be smashed and recreated into something imperfect, but useful, and sometimes even beautiful. Speaking only for myself, spiritual growth hasn't been easy. I don't think God really cuts us a whole lot of slack when it comes to developing spiritual maturity. I'd love to take credit for "me," but the "me" is constantly changing (and shrinking, thank God). If you bear fruit, I think it means both that God has worked with you and that you've been "working out your salvation with fear and trembling." Sinful as we are, there's a degree of cooperation there. I think you can reach a point at which you consciously hand yourself over for destruction/death and recreation/resurrection, and your actions will show that.

 

[childeye]

I feel like I'm taking an easy way out here. I don't think the answer to this is "God" or "Self." The "self" for the Christian is undergoing constant improvements. Self is handed over to God to be smashed and recreated into something imperfect, but useful, and sometimes even beautiful. Speaking only for myself, spiritual growth hasn't been easy. I don't think God really cuts us a whole lot of slack when it comes to developing spiritual maturity. I'd love to take credit for "me," but the "me" is constantly changing (and shrinking, thank God). If you bear fruit, I think it means both that God has worked with you and that you've been "working out your salvation with fear and trembling." Sinful as we are, there's a degree of cooperation there. I think you can reach a point at which you consciously hand yourself over for destruction/death and recreation/resurrection, and your actions will show that.

I can appreciate your sentiments and your main point being cooperation between man and God. However it is clear to me that becasue there is a God, we exist overall only to manifest His Spirit. For this reason many lies can live in one man but only One Truth can live in all men.

 

[Anthony02]

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply, Tina. Glad to know that there's at least a few like-minded people that feel the same way I do.

If you bear fruit, I think it means both that God has worked with you and that you've been "working out your salvation with fear and trembling."

I agree, definitely. I wasn't at all saying that you don't have to work for your salvation - you do, what I was trying to point to is that when you do reap that oh-so-glorious fruit, after you've worked for it, is it yours? I mean, yea', it is within you, but is it created by any part of your own temple? When Godly love flows through you, is the human spirit responsible for continuously creating that love? Is it not the Holy Spirit that's communing with our spirit and somehow (perhaps this is the wrong word, but...) causing our spirit to imitate God? And it's not that our spirit is actually capable of being God.

Like childeye said, it's "Godly love." It's from God. I'm pretty convicted that that's the case. I don't believe we (whoever "we" is) are capable of producing such a heightened state of any of the above-mentioned "fruit" in their purest, purest form. We reap the benefits, sure, by dwelling in genuine peace, but this peace not only surpasses all human understanding, but it's my belief that it also surpasses any form of human creativity.