Gun Control in the USA

[from dust to life]

Hi everyone .I'm not American, and have no particular right to involve myself in this debate,

Greetings friend, ... and sure you have a right, we are all Gods children and should be concerned with each other. Thank the Lord and you for your concern.

so I'll just say, my wife and I grieve for you, and are praying for you. I hope that you can resolve these issues in love and glorify God in the doing of it. Bless you all.

This issue will only be resolved when America bows to the Beast as Europe has. The clay and iron seem to hold together so far, but we know it's not for long because clay and iron don't mix, and with a little pressure it will all crumble.

America still profess Christ pretty loudly and they still hold on to their inalienable rights (guns, freedom of speech etc.), and in a world where the Beast rules by the power of Satan, this is totally unacceptable.

North Korea is the ideal country, and Detroit Michigan is the ideal city for the Beast, take a good look at them because this IS the planned future for the entire world.

Take another good look at the News footage where the SWAT team comes in, you see any fear in them of a potential enemy hiding somewhere ready kill some more? Nope, because they are not there to protect, but to conquer. As if they know there is no danger...

hmm... just like President Bush during 9-11 wasn't alarmed when they whispered in his ear (supposedly) that the country is under attack, he kept on entertaining the children. Then, he got in his Air-force One and took to the skies to enjoy a once-Great Countries first in aviation histories plane-less skies, as a god, the ruler of the skies and who put terror in the hearts of men. Why did he fearlessly take to the skies, ... again because he knew there was no real danger of any outside attack.

Yes, let the whole world wonder for our once great Babylon (America) is on its knees, and now will be made to bow to the ground before the Beast and the Dragon. The Dragon says; "Thank you Christians for sending your kids into our armies, for we could have never achieved this without you!

You want to keep your weapons America, ... well just come and join our armies. We have all the weapons your little hearts desire, we spent your trillions making them, and just like in all them video-games we introduced and hooked you with, you will be given the authority to shoot anyone at anytime for any reason you want. Heck, kill your own family and you will get a big bonus! Yep, ... just turn up that music, and 'let the bodies hit the floor, ... let the bodies hit the floor!"

May God have mercy on our souls!

Odon

 

[Mountainshield]

Living in Norway we have right to carry hunting shotguns and certain saloon rifles (not sure what they are called in english) I have two guns personally, a shotgun and a small caliber rifle. Automatic weapons and handguns are highly illegal. Yet the gangs of Oslo are armed to the teeth.

And as you all know we just had the shooter Anders Breivik who murdered dozens and dozens of teens at a political youth camp.

So let me state it clearly, GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK as empirical evidence clearly suggest. Just ask the parents of all the children murdered in Norway.

The most statistical correct correlation studies on the subject of gun crime-gun control show that gun violence increases with ban on guns. Washington DC have some of the highest gun crime in USA but is also one of the strictest one on gun control.

I hate to sound heartless but these incidents are NORMAL and predictable, it is not isolated to the USA as we have them in Europe and Asia too. The biggest difference is the size of population in conjunction with emergence of mass media, hysteria and sensetionalism makes it seem USA is special because of lack of gun control. Its a logical fallacy and nothing to be ashamed of, it seems most people make it due to lack of education in statistical research. In germany when a shooting occur its generally not in the headlines.

This world will never be free of crime, evil or terror no matter how much you try to regulate it. You can't sign a paper and think it changes society, people will always work around it. The more the regulations, the more corruption (look at India).

 

[BornAgain]

I am married to a multiple gun owner that has a permit to also carry. I do not carry or have an interest in obtaining a permit, however, I do feel much safer with him knowing if we were to be in a situation he would be able to protect others as well as ourselves.

Our governor, the well loved Rick Snyder may be vetoing his bill his past 5 hours prior to the unfortunate accident in Newton that a gun owner could carry in churches and schools today. I feel like we are sitting ducks at times and the criminal has the rights.

This might be a good question for Vanguard but I am curious to know how many of these mass shootings are responsible gun owners that have a permit to carry?

 

[stovebolts]

I am married to a multiple gun owner that has a permit to also carry. I do not carry or have an interest in obtaining a permit, however, I do feel much safer with him knowing if we were to be in a situation he would be able to protect others as well as ourselves.

Our governor, the well loved Rick Snyder may be vetoing his bill his past 5 hours prior to the unfortunate accident in Newton that a gun owner could carry in churches and schools today. I feel like we are sitting ducks at times and the criminal has the rights.

This might be a good question for Vanguard but I am curious to know how many of these mass shootings are responsible gun owners that have a permit to carry?

Yeah I didn't get that. I mean, I understand the school thing (and I don't agree with it) but church? Where in the world did that pop up from? I don't get it. Doesn't really matter... I know an old vet that he'll carry till he's dead. We had our services outside this summer and later he and i were talking. I wasn't following very well until he poked me in the neck with a rolled up bulletin. "Just as good as a knife" he said as he gave me a wink. I'm actually glad we have people like him looking out for us that don't know any better.

 

[Vanguard]

This might be a good question for Vanguard but I am curious to know how many of these mass shootings are responsible gun owners that have a permit to carry?

For starters, if you do a mass shooting (or any crime with a gun), you're not a responsible gun owner! (sorry, had to throw that in there) ;)

Statistically less than 1% of crimes involving a gun in the USA, are carried out by law abiding citizens with registered guns. Out of the 1% that do commit a crime and have registered guns and/or permits, those permit restrictions/stipulations vary state to state and usually only cover hand guns. Rifles and shotguns are excluded. Furthermore, some states have an "open carry" law, meaning you can have a hand gun strapped to your hip like a cowboy and it is perfectly legal, no permit required. A CCW (carry concealed weapon) permit is only for carrying it concealed beneath clothing, in your car, etc. But...criminals could care less about the law, so permit requirements and/or gun bans won't stop them.

I can't even begin to count the number of times that a crime/criminal was stopped around here because someone was packing some heat legally.

 

[BornAgain]

Yeah I didn't get that. I mean, I understand the school thing (and I don't agree with it) but church? Where in the world did that pop up from? I don't get it. Doesn't really matter... I know an old vet that he'll carry till he's dead. We had our services outside this summer and later he and i were talking. I wasn't following very well until he poked me in the neck with a rolled up bulletin. "Just as good as a knife" he said as he gave me a wink. I'm actually glad we have people like him looking out for us that don't know any better.

Well, the governor vetoed his own bill. I think if he didn't he would be worried about his "popularity." Honestly, I think the some schools and churches would have put no gun carry signs on their buildings anyway.

 

[BornAgain]

For starters, if you do a mass shooting (or any crime with a gun), you're not a responsible gun owner! (sorry, had to throw that in there) ;)

Statistically less than 1% of crimes involving a gun in the USA, are carried out by law abiding citizens with registered guns. Out of the 1% that do commit a crime and have registered guns and/or permits, those permit restrictions/stipulations vary state to state and usually only cover hand guns. Rifles and shotguns are excluded. Furthermore, some states have an "open carry" law, meaning you can have a hand gun strapped to your hip like a cowboy and it is perfectly legal, no permit required. A CCW (carry concealed weapon) permit is only for carrying it concealed beneath clothing, in your car, etc. But...criminals could care less about the law, so permit requirements and/or gun bans won't stop them.

I can't even begin to count the number of times that a crime/criminal was stopped around here because someone was packing some heat legally.

I guess I didn't word that right! Thanks for your response and I wish more people knew those statistics...they get emotional (understandably, as I have after this latest tragedy) but do not look at the facts and think making gun laws stricter it is going to stop this.

You were so correct on your first post when you said the black market is going to sky rocket and hurt the economy in that area. I heard on the news today that Wall Street has already pulled out of backing some gun shops.

 

[Swazi Spring]

I am posting this to discuss and inform people on the fundamental human right to bear arms. There are quite a few lies and uninformed statements that some unsavory individuals have been throwing around as of late and as a citizen of this great country, it is my duty (as well as your duty) to fight this propaganda. Always remember that "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" and that "all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Lets start by looking at the empirical data, shall we? gun control advocates like to go make bigoted and misinformed statements, alleging that Europeans "have no guns and thus they have no crime." While it is true that some European countries do have lower violent crime rates than the United States, all of the evidence shows that guns have absolutely nothing to do with that. In fact, the data shows that violent crime, including homicide, has been drastically on the rise since the implementation of gun control. For instance, the United Kingdom is known for it's draconian and anti-freedom gun control laws. The first of these laws in recent times was the Gun Control Act of 1968, which introduced strict restrictions on gun ownership and required firearms be registered. This law has been a complete and utter disaster and not only are the people less free, but violent crime rates (including homicide) have skyrocketed and continue to skyrocket. The homicide rate rose 52% since the law was enacted and it continues to rise. In 1997 the British government completely banned handguns, after forcing all owners to register their guns with the 1968 law, this again resulted in violent crime (including homicide) rates skyrocketing and continue to rise. In fact, after the 1997 handgun ban, homicide rates have risen by 15% since the law was enacted. In fact, the countries in Europe that have the lowest crime rates are the ones that have the most gun owners and/or least strict gun laws, such as the Czech Republic, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland.

Gun control isn't just a failure in other countries, it's a failure in America as well. In the United States, every time gun control has been implemented, it has failed miserably, made us less free, and empowered criminals. Take for instance the handgun bans in Chicago and the District of Columbia, which have been struck down as unconstitutional. Handguns were completely banned in the District of Columbia in 1976, this resulted in violent crime (including homicide) rates skyrocketing. In the District of Columbia, homicide rates in the District of Columbia rose by 73% since the law was enacted.. Chicago banned handguns in 1981, this resulted in violent crime (including homicide) rates skyrocketing. In Chicago, homicide rates rose by 40% since the law was enacted.

Now lets look at the fundamental human right to concealed carry, shall we? Currently every state except Illinois and the District of Columbia have concealed carry and both of those states are currently in the process of allowing concealed carry, seeing as how not allowing concealed carry violates the United States Constitution (and Illinois Constitution). Concealed carry has been hailed as a massive success, not only for those who love freedom, but also for lowering violent crime (including homicide) rates. Concealed carry has drastically lowered homicide rates everywhere that it has been implemented. Every study conducted shows that the right to concealed carry has saved many lives and has taken virtually zero. In fact, concealed carry has even begun to spread to other countries, such as Canada, the Czech Republic and Israel.

Lets look at what gun control advocates mean when they talk about "big scary assault weapons;" the first thing that pops into your head is probably that they are talking about fully automatic rifles, however, this is not the case. These so-called "assault weapons" that gun control advocates always talk about banning are nothing more than so-called "assault" modifications to guns, such as bayonets and pistol grips. It doesn't cover fully automatic firearms at all, which were previously banned under the Hughes Amendment. All of the evidence shows that fully automatic weapons are used in virtually no crimes. Statistics show that prior to the Hughes Amendment there was not a single instance of a fully automatic gun being used in the commission of a crime. It wasn't until AFTER fully automatic weapons were banned that a crime was committed with one, and in that incident, nobody was killed (other than the two bank robbers). The Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired in 2004 and absolutely nothing bad happened like gun control advocates claimed.

Gun control advocates try to mistakenly say that Barack Obama "supports gun rights" and/or that he "isn't anti-gun rights," even though all of the evidence shows that he is perhaps our most anti-gun rights president in American history. gun control advocates only claim that he is "pro-gun rights," because they want to trick ignorant people into thinking he isn't a horrible person who hates guns and freedom. Throughout Obama's political career, he has made various anti-gun rights statements and support anti-gun rights bills. Barack Obama said that he supports banning semi-automatic guns and increase firearm restrictions. He also said that he supported banning handguns and concealed carry. Obama voted in favor of holding firearm manufacturers responsible for murders. Obama also said he would renew the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and immediately upon being re-elected, he had his congressional Democrat friends introduce a bill to renew it. Obama also said he believes people living in "inner cities" shouldn't be allowed to own guns. Obama cosponsored a bill that only allowed citizens to buy one gun a month. Obama also said he supports requiring guns be registered and licensed. Obama said that he believes that local gun bans do not violate the Second Amendment. Obama also said that he would consider supporting a ban on buying ammunition online. This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all of the anti-gun rights statements Obama has made and the anti-gun rights bills he has supported.

Gun control advocates try to claim that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution does not refer to an individual right, but instead refers to the right of individual states to form militias (such as National Guards). This claim is completely false and has been disproved many times. First off the rights of the states to form militias is already protected under Article I of the United States Constitution. The Second Amendment is as follows: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." As you can see, the Second Amendment does allow for the creation of a military force, which makes sense, since you need a national military to defend your country. However, the Founding Fathers separated the right to form a militia from the right of the people to bear arms. Note the grammatical separation and note how it says the right of the people, as opposed to the "right of the militia."

Every legal reference in history to the right to keep and bear arms has referred to it as an individual right. The first recorded use of the 'right to keep and bear arms' comes from the English Bill of Rights of 1689, which referred explicitly to an individual right. Fourty-four of the fifty states protect the right to keep in their state constitutions and this right refers to an individual right in all fourty-four of them. The right to keep and bear arms has always referred to an individual right in other countries constitutions as well. Islamic law also calls for governments to respect for the individual right of the people to bear arms, though this right is not generally respected by Muslim countries in practice. The Second Amendment does not create any new rights, it only protects a pre-existing natural right that all sapient beings have. This has been proven time and time again by the Founding Fathers, the United States Supreme Court, John Locke and countless classical liberal philosophers.

Now lets look at United States case law and legal precedent for the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms in general. As previously mentioned, the first recorded legal usage of the right to keep and bear arms comes from the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Prior to the formation of the United States, the Thirteen Colonies also had a long-standing history of having a right to bear arms, which included the right to self-defense. Prior to the United States Constitution being formed, states that had declared their independence from Great Britain had protected the right to bear arms in their state constitutions and it included the right to self-defense. For instance, the 1776 Constitution of Pennsylvania states that "the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state." When the United States Constitution was being drafted and ratified, the Founding Fathers stated explicitly that the right to bear arms was a right of the people, not a "right of the militia" as some gun control advocates claim. In fact, many of the Founding Fathers wanted to require every free citizen to own a gun, viewing it as a civic duty. I will provide a list of these quotes from the Founding Fathers towards the end of this post.

Interpretation of the Second Amendment has always been that of recognizing it as an individual right. In fact, it was most commonly interpreted as a right that cannot under any circumstances be restricted or limited. Even foreigners held this view, including William Blackstone, who wrote about it in his Commentaries on the Laws of England. The Second Amendment uses the term "shall not be infringed," which not only states that the right to keep and bear arms is a pre-existing natural right, but also that it shall not be infringed upon. In fact, the only real criticism levied against the Second Amendment, was by those who thought it didn't provide enough protection to the right to bear arms. St. George Tucker and William Rawle, two lawyers and abolitionists (and in the case of Tucker, a Virginia Supreme Court justice) were among those who criticized the Second Amendment for not protecting the rights of gun owners enough. Tucker and Rawle argued that the Second Amendment needed to have provisions in order to help the poor be able to exercise their right to bear arms; they viewed this as difficult under the current laws, seeing as how many poor people couldn't afford firearms. Joseph Story, an early federal Supreme Court justice wrote in his work, Commentaries on the Constitution, that: "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." Story also wrote that the right to bear arms is a natural right. The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution states that all restrictions placed on the federal government also apply to state and local governments. One of the main reasons this amendment was added to the Constitution was because former slave states would often times refuse to allow freed slaves to bear arms, which violated their rights as protected under the Second Amendment.

 

[Swazi Spring]

It wasn't until the late 20th and early 19th century that socialists and so-called "progressives" tried to re-interpret the Second Amendment to mean a collective right to form state militias. Dred Scott v. Sandford ruled that the Second Amendment is an individual right, however it also ruled that the Second Amendment did not apply to slaves. United States v. Cruikshank, Presser v. Illinois and Miller v. Texas ruled that the Second Amendment is an individual right, however, it also ruled that the First and Second Amendments only limit the federal government. United States v. Miller ruled that that: "These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense," which is to say that the people consist of the militia. United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez ruled that the Second Amendment (and the Bill of Rights in general) was an individual right that also applied to non-citizen aliens. United States v. Lopez ruled that the so-called "Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990" violated the Second Amendment and was unconstitutional. United States v. Emerson, District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago reaffirmed that the Second Amendment refers to an individual right that applies to state and local governments, as well as the federal government. Moore v. Madigan ruled that the ban on concealed carry in Illinois violated the Second Amendment and was thus unconstitutional, requiring Illinois to adopt concealed carry.

Lets also take a look at what the Founding Fathers had to say about the Second Amendment and right to bear arms:
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson

"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." -Thomas Jefferson

"We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;" -Thomas Jefferson

"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"To model our political system upon speculations of lasting tranquility, is to calculate on the weaker springs of the human character." -Alexander Hamilton

"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison

"To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws." -John Adams

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. " -Noah Webster

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." -Tenche Coxe

"[The new government] shall be too firmly fixed in the saddle to be overthrown by anything but a general insurrection." -William Symmes

"[A standing army] if raised, whether they could subdue a nation of freemen, who know how to prize liberty, and who have arms in their hands?" -Theodore Sedwick

"[W]hereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it." -Richard Henry Lee

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -Patrick Henry

"O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone...Did you ever read of any revolution in a nation...inflicted by those who had no power at all?" -Patrick Henry

"[W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor..." -George Mason

"[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." -Zacharia Johnson

"That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power." -Virginia delegation to the constitutional convention

"The whole of that Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals...t establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." -Albert Gallatin

"[C]onceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made. The particular states, like private citizens, have a right to be armed, and to defend, by force of arms, their rights, when invaded." -Roger Sherman

As you can clearly see, gun control is not only a failure, but it also takes away our freedom and is unconstitutional. What can we do to lower violent crime rates then? That is a good question and the answer to the question doesn't include gun control. I believe we should primarily focus on the causes of violent crime, as opposed to focusing on the symptoms. We need to overhaul our public education system and work to eliminate poverty. As for guns, we should protect the right of the people to bear arms, including the right to concealed carry. We should also bring back firearms classes in public schools, these classes would teach our young people about gun safety and responsibility.


Sources
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm
https://supreme.justia.com/us/92/542/case.html
https://supreme.justia.com/us/116/252/case.html
https://supreme.justia.com/us/307/174/case.html
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf
https://supreme.justia.com/us/60/393/case.html
http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/153/535/case.html
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
http://www.americanbar.org/content/..._PetitionerAmCuHeartlandInst.authcheckdam.pdf
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stor...ow-concealed-carry-saves-many-lives-takes-few
http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf
http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/research-concealed-carry-and-guns-save-lives-95307939.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/concealed-weapons-save-lives-article-1.1121161
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndfqu.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/12/20121218132050819.html
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689

 

[Vanguard]

Cliff Notes:

1. Your right to own a gun is protected by the 2nd Amendment. That won't change.
2. The founding fathers wanted the citizens to have guns so that the government could not take over and turn the country into an empire.
3. Individuals are responsible for their guns, to include proper storage and safety.
4. Gun control advocates use interpreted data to support their claims. To be fair, so does the NRA.
5. Other countries will tell you that gun bans don't really work.

 

[BornAgain]

Great information and I think everybody should be educated on this for greater understanding.

 

[reba]

Abortion kills more people then guns

 

[Nick]

Abortion kills more people then guns

If os, then that's a LOT of babies.

 

[Vanguard]

Abortion kills more people then guns

US statistics for the year 2011:

Number of abortions = over 1 million.
Number of gun related deaths = 8,583 reported.

Other facts:

Number of vehicle related deaths in 2011 = 32,367
Number of tobacco related deaths per year = +/- 443,000 (49,400 by second hand smoke...smokers kill almost 50k innocent people each year)

We should ban cars and tobacco before we ban guns.

 

[reba]

Van do you happen to have the numbers at hand as to the number of murders via guns? Maybe it is not much different

Number of gun related deaths = 8,583 reported.

 

[Vanguard]

Van do you happen to have the numbers at hand as to the number of murders via guns? Maybe it is not much different

Number of gun related deaths = 8,583 reported.

Not at this time. I am at work, but our system is down so I can't access FBI stats right now. I do need to say this: that 8,583 is a reported number. That means someone called the police, the police did an investigation, and then submitted their crime stats to the FBI. That does not always happen. The actual numbers will be higher. The reason stats go unreported is because towns/cities want their crime stats to be "lower" than what they really are. The same thing goes for burglaries, robberies, assaults, rapes, etc. and is especially true on university campuses. The illusion that things are safe and sound.

 

[WIP]

Abortion kills more people then guns

Thank you, Reba, for bringing this up. As I have been reading and involved in the latest gun control forums that have been cropping up as they usually do following an incident like this I can't help but wonder why we don't hear the cry for knife control!!!

Here are the latest statistics regarding abortions in the United States alone as of July 26, 2012. And one guy takes out 26 people in one crazy incident and we want to ban guns. Sheesh! Talk about speaking with a forked tongue.
Abortions per year: 1.2 million
Abortions per day: 3,288
Abortions per hour: 137
9 abortions every 4 minutes
1 abortion every 26 seconds

Note, my comments were not meant to belittle the tragedy in CT or any other but I still can't help but wonder.

 

[Mike S]

Strict gun control laws - or even an outright ban - will not work any better to control gun related violence and deaths than strict drug or alcohol laws - even outright bans - has controlled drug and alcohol violence and deaths. Real solutions lie in controlling the desire for, and cultural acceptability of, violence, not in trying to limit availability of the objects used to commit violence. Black markets are an easy and natural human response to such attempts.

Now that we know the abolition of alcohol and making drugs illegal has failed spectacularly, what is plan B for government, more repressive police state tactics? If guns are banned and the policy fails, as it inevitably will, what will be government's plan B, yet more trashing of the Constitution and even more repressive police state tactics?

 

[Mountainshield]

I have to agree with Swazi Spring on this. Thank for those posts.

My experience in my own country shows clearly that gun control does not work. We have highly strict gun control laws and yet a mass murderer managed to procure many different type of guns illegal to everyone, same with criminals.

 

[Sparkey]

The day of the mall shooting there was a man, named Nick Meli age 22, who has a concealed carry permit. When he heard the shots being fired he ran into danger and pointed his glock 22 at the shooter. "As I was going down to pull (the trigger), I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," Meli said. Meli never took that shot, but the masked man still saw Meli with his glock. The next shot fired was the masked man killing himself.

Three died that day, the shooter and two others, Steve Forsyth, 45, of West Linn, and Cindy Yuille, 54, of Northeast Portland. (Source: Article in The Oregonian by Lynne Terry)

In the school shooting, there was a report that an unarmed teacher tried to go towards the shooter; I still wonder what would have been the result if instead of moving to the gunman with no weapon, the teacher had ducked, pulled out a weapon and fired. But of course, under our current laws and policies that can not happen.