Heaven guaranteed !?

[Fish Catcher Jim]

this is exactly what Jn.20:31 says viz that everything that is written is written so that we may[continue] to simply simply believe that Jesus is the saviour and the son of God and simply simply believing we may have life in His name - btw it seems you have not yet heard the really good news which even Bishop John had not really heard or realised until after his death and then he rejoiced and was glad in his saviour Jesus Christ - why not rejoice and be glad and praise now and not later - twinc

Praise Him when we are on top and praise Him when we feel down. Praise God always....How can you ever lose when your are in praise and worship with God.
Amen Brother !!
BLessings
Jim

 

[Jethro Bodine]

.

Dear Brother Fish Catcher Jim, I think the following shows Who it is that is doing the work
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Let's be careful to not quench the work of the Spirit within us. It doesn't happen automatically and without our consent.

"Quench not the Spirit." (1 Thessalonians 5:19 KJV)

 

[WIP]

Believing That Jesus Christ went to the cross for us and excepting Jesus as ourt savour is what makes it so.

I'm assuming this was an unintentional typing error when you wrote the above and suspect you meant to write "Believing that Jesus Christ went to the cross for us and accepting Jesus as our savior is what makes it so.

When we are offered a gift, we have one of two choices to make. We can either accept it or we can reject it. The gift of salvation if free and attainable to anyone willing to accept it by faith. All we have to do is accept it by faith.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:4-10 NKJV

 

[WIP]

Actually Gary that was from your post #3 where you said .Actually this is how it works.

Romans 2
13 (for not the hearers of the laware just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

So I said...........that asking Christ into your heart was doing...........

This was the first question that came to my mind too. I hear that phrase quite a bit and have been unable to find the scripture that says we must "ask Jesus into our heart." Where is it written?

The truth as I understand it is all we have to do is accept the gift that has been offered. That's not as simple as one might think because we are sinful and we love our world too much. In order to accept the gift of salvation one must put aside his/her pride, selfish ambitions, desires of the world, and put his/her faith and trust in the one Lord, the Christ, Jesus. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:21 NKJV

 

[Eugene]

.

Let's be careful to not quench the work of the Spirit within us. It doesn't happen automatically and without our consent.

"Quench not the Spirit." (1 Thessalonians 5:19 KJV)

Good morning Brother Jethro Bodine, I agree completely, but just to make sure we’re on the same page I consider the Holy Spirit God within in us who have received Him.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Can we take credit for what God is doing in us, or just praise Him for it?

Now if we walk not after the flesh due to His leading, but after the Spirit He the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (Not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:4.

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Hm that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The God of peace is the power of the Holy Ghost. It was the power of the Holy Ghost that raised up Jesus from the grave after three days.
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will (Who is doing the work?), working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This was the first question that came to my mind too. I hear that phrase quite a bit and have been unable to find the scripture that says we must "ask Jesus into our heart." Where is it written?

Christ dwells by the Holy Spirit in the heart of the person who has faith:

"16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith." (Ephesians 3:16-17 NIV)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now if we walk not after the flesh due to His leading, but after the Spirit He the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (Not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:4.

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Hm that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The God of peace is the power of the Holy Ghost. It was the power of the Holy Ghost that raised up Jesus from the grave after three days.
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will (Who is doing the work?), working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Thanks for your reply.

The righteousness of the law is always fulfilled in us in regard to our legal standing before God. Our faith in Christ does that for us all by itself apart from our works. But what Paul is talking about is the righteousness of the law only gets literally fulfilled in a person when they are walking according to the Spirit. That is when we are upholding and fulfilling the righteousness of the law--when we yield our members to Christ, not the desires of the flesh.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
(Romans 6:12-13 NASB)

The yielding is what we do. Righteous work wouldn't get done by us without his love and encouragement, and so in that sense we certainly can't take credit for our righteous works, but nonetheless, we have the responsibility to respond to the love and encouragement of God that motivates righteous works in us. And, generally speaking, we are most certainly held accountable for not responding. It's not God's fault when we don't respond.

 

[Eugene]

The yielding is what we do. Righteous work wouldn't get done by us without his love and encouragement, and so in that sense we certainly can't take credit for our righteous works, but nonetheless, we have the responsibility to respond to the love and encouragement of God that motivates righteous works in us. And, generally speaking, we are most certainly held accountable for not responding. It's not God's fault when we don't respond.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. God's only purpose in all this is to be our cheerleader as it were? Of course if we mess up even once we didn't accomplish His will; right? Hey, that means if we confess our sins, it again means it is God doing the work and not us huh?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I'm assuming this was an unintentional typing error when you wrote the above and suspect you meant to write "Believing that Jesus Christ went to the cross for us and accepting Jesus as our savior is what makes it so.

When we are offered a gift, we have one of two choices to make. We can either accept it or we can reject it. The gift of salvation if free and attainable to anyone willing to accept it by faith. All we have to do is accept it by faith.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:4-10 NKJV

Yep it was.....I have a bad habit of foretting to use accept over except.....

 

[Brother Mike]

The righteousness of the law is always fulfilled in us in regard to our legal standing before God. Our faith in Christ does that for us all by itself apart from our works. But what Paul is talking about is the righteousness of the law only gets literally fulfilled in a person when they are walking according to the Spirit. That is when we are upholding and fulfilling the righteousness of the law--when we yield our members to Christ, not the desires of the flesh.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
(Romans 6:12-13 NASB)

The yielding is what we do. Righteous work wouldn't get done by us without his love and encouragement, and so in that sense we certainly can't take credit for our righteous works, but nonetheless, we have the responsibility to respond to the love and encouragement of God that motivates righteous works in us. And, generally speaking, we are most certainly held accountable for not responding. It's not God's fault when we don't respond.

Seems the Key is walking in the Spirit. Be filled with the Spirit, and praying in tongues is a great way to do this.

So I can do all things through the Anointing (Being filled with the Spirit, walking according to the spirit) who strengthens me. (Christ=His anointing)

Makes sense.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. God's only purpose in all this is to be our cheerleader as it were? Of course if we mess up even once we didn't accomplish His will; right? Hey, that means if we confess our sins, it again means it is God doing the work and not us huh?

Well, there is a great cloud of witnesses watching us. I believe that is our family in Heaven rooting us on. Just a thought.

 

[Eugene]

Well, there is a great cloud of witnesses watching us. I believe that is our family in Heaven rooting us on. Just a thought.

:amen

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. God's only purpose in all this is to be our cheerleader as it were? Of course if we mess up even once we didn't accomplish His will; right? Hey, that means if we confess our sins, it again means it is God doing the work and not us huh?

You seem to be hammering an agenda where you perceive one is being challenged perhaps?

I can't read between the lines. Just come right out and say what's on your mind. Then we'll see if there is any cause for you to mount a defense of your doctrine.

 

[4afaithfulone]

it is written that heaven is guaranteed for all who simply simply believe[Jn.20:31] - so fear not little flock [Lk.12:32] - twinc

Saved to live again and inherit the kingdom of heaven are two different things.
I tell you this out of the love of God so you are not deceived.......
Gal 5:16-23
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
KJV

When we continue in the fleshly works mentioned above, we are still walking carnally in the flesh man that we are supposed to rid our ways of, for those led of their flesh shall not be able to see the kingdom of God for the carnal nature holds us back from the peace of God.
Moses was held back from entering into his promised land due to him not letting go of those who could not and would not hear God and obey. Moses would not separate himself from them. Abraham had to come away from his father's house to follow God, meaning those who are carnal in their ways. Remember Lot wanted to fight all the time, so Abraham had to get away from him for there is no peace in the midst of anger and strife.
If we remain in our carnal nature, we will just fill the earth right back up with lawlessness as the heathen are and we once were. And the earth will be full of all the hurting things we have today, broken homes, lawless children, cheating spouses, fatherless and motherless children, dishonesty, false accusers, greed, idolatry. We must allow the Word and the Spirit to work within us to renew our ways to God's ways for a godly life of abundance and honor among men and God will bless us.
Matt 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
KJV

 

[Eugene]

You seem to be hammering an agenda where you perceive one is being challenged perhaps?

I can't read between the lines. Just come right out and say what's on your mind. Then we'll see if there is any cause for you to mount a defense of your doctrine.

I remain to be OSAS, and as such I contribute all parts of our salvation to God.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Cturtle]

I'm assuming this was an unintentional typing error when you wrote the above and suspect you meant to write "Believing that Jesus Christ went to the cross for us and accepting Jesus as our savior is what makes it so.

When we are offered a gift, we have one of two choices to make. We can either accept it or we can reject it. The gift of salvation if free and attainable to anyone willing to accept it by faith. All we have to do is accept it by faith.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:4-10 NKJV

I believe one passage is Romans 10:8-10 blessings brother wip

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

This was the first question that came to my mind too. I hear that phrase quite a bit and have been unable to find the scripture that says we must "ask Jesus into our heart." Where is it written?

The truth as I understand it is all we have to do is accept the gift that has been offered. That's not as simple as one might think because we are sinful and we love our world too much. In order to accept the gift of salvation one must put aside his/her pride, selfish ambitions, desires of the world, and put his/her faith and trust in the one Lord, the Christ, Jesus. "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:21 NKJV

Yes Romans 10:9-10

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I remain to be OSAS, and as such I contribute all parts of our salvation to God.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I figured you were propping up the OSAS arguement somewhere in all of that . There's really no reason to go down that bunny trail.

In regard to the OP, right from the passage you quoted (John 5:24) we can see that heaven is guaranteed to the person who 'believeth on him', not guaranteed to the person who 'doesn't believeth on him', or guaranteed to the person who 'worketh to earn it'.

The Bible does tell us how we can know if we do indeed 'believeth on him' and, as a result, have that guarantee by whether or not our believing in God's forgiveness has changed us into a new creation who is walking according to the Spirit in an ever-increasing display of 'doing' the things of the Spirit. Peter talks about that in 2 Peter 1:5-9 NASB...

8 For if these qualities (of the Spirit--see context) are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten * his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never * * stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

He says that you make certain that you have been called and chosen (not just called--many are called) by being diligent to express your faith in the things of the Spirit that he lists just prior to this. And 'be all the more diligent' in vs.10 shows me this is something WE purposely do--which we all know we do by the power of the Holy Spirit within us. The problem seems to be getting us Christians to use it.

So anyway, for this thread I don't see any reason to visit the matter of whether or not someone can stop believing, and as a result not be walking in the qualities of the Spirit Peter describes, and still have the guarantee of the kingdom (or if it's really possible for someone to stop believing). It doesn't change the fact that it is believing, not 'working to earn', or 'unbelief' that secures the guarantee of the heavenly kingdom to come. Agreed?

 

[Eugene]

I figured you were propping up the OSAS arguement somewhere in all of that . There's really no reason to go down that bunny trail.

In regard to the OP, right from the passage you quoted (John 5:24) we can see that heaven is guaranteed to the person who 'believeth on him', not guaranteed to the person who 'doesn't believeth on him', or guaranteed to the person who 'worketh to earn it'.

The Bible does tell us how we can know if we do indeed 'believeth on him' and, as a result, have that guarantee by whether or not our believing in God's forgiveness has changed us into a new creation who is walking according to the Spirit in an ever-increasing display of 'doing' the things of the Spirit. Peter talks about that in 2 Peter 1:5-9 NASB...

8 For if these qualities (of the Spirit--see context) are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten * his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never * * stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

He says that you make certain that you have been called and chosen (not just called--many are called) by being diligent to express your faith in the things of the Spirit that he lists just prior to this. And 'be all the more diligent' in vs.10 shows me this is something WE purposely do--which we all know we do by the power of the Holy Spirit within us. The problem seems to be getting us Christians to use it.

So anyway, for this thread I don't see any reason to visit the matter of whether or not someone can stop believing, and as a result not be walking in the qualities of the Spirit Peter describes, and still have the guarantee of the kingdom (or if it's really possible for someone to stop believing). It doesn't change the fact that it is believing, not 'working to earn', or 'unbelief' that secures the guarantee of the heavenly kingdom to come. Agreed?

I’m not sure how going down the trail of eternal security differs from the OP. The scripture you quoted, 2 Pet 1:5,6,7,8,9 has the context of taking on God’s divine nature through knowledge of God, and of our Lord Jesus Christ. v2.

Having understanding of God’s word we will take on qualities, or fruit of the Holy Spirit having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. v4.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

 

[WIP]

I believe one passage is Romans 10:8-10 blessings brother wip

Thank you for the reference. That verse says "Confess with thy mouth and believe in thine heart." I don't see where it says that I must ask the Lord to come into my heart. I have believed that the Holy Spirit will indwell the believer who trusts in the Lord. I don't see where it requires me to verbally ask for it. God has already extended the invitation. It's a gift and all we have to do is accept it by faith. I will gladly accept the truth if I am in error if someone can show me where the scriptures say we must ask for Jesus to come into our heart.

 

[JLB]

We ask Him into our hearts. We are born again into His kingdom.....

That is beautiful.

Do you have a scripture for this statement "ask Him into our hearts"... we are born again into his kingdom?


Thanks JLB