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Heaven - what/where

A

agua.

Guest
In the CI thread Butch presented an idea that Heaven could possibly be another dimension here on Earth ( or close by ) and the idea made me think about what I actually know about what/where Heaven is. Butch presented this idea based on 2Kings 6 where Elisha could see the realm where an army was "hiding" for his support.

2Ki 6:15-17 KJV And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? (16) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. (17) And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

What do we know about the physicality of Heaven and where is it according to the Bible ?
 
Oh this probably belongs in Bible Study sorry about that.
 
agua. said:
In the CI thread Butch presented an idea that Heaven could possibly be another dimension here on Earth ( or close by ) and the idea made me think about what I actually know about what/where Heaven is. Butch presented this idea based on 2Kings 6 where Elisha could see the realm where an army was "hiding" for his support.

2Ki 6:15-17 KJV And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? (16) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. (17) And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

What do we know about the physicality of Heaven and where is it according to the Bible ?
Click to expand...
Is that verse saying theres horses and chariots in heaven? or is this just a vision.
 
I'm guessing it isn't a vision because Elisha asked Yahweh to open the eyes ( let him see ) of his servant to the forces. We also know Elisha previously saw a fiery chariot carry Elijah away so I assume it was a physical/tangible, yet unseen by the natural/nonspiritual eye, force/army.

Whether the force was/is in Heaven or not is part of the OP question.
 
Well I do believe there is a spiritual realm here that we normally don't see. But I don't know if it is part of the third heaven.
 
Horses and chariots can represent power and doctrine respectively. So in effect the worldly forces arrayed against the city are no match for the heavenly power and doctrine that backs Elisha.:twocents
 
When we think of Heaven being "above" we usually think about height.

Deu 4:39 KJV Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.


I wonder if "above" can imply a higher state rather than position. ie, Heaven overlays Earth in the same way our new Spiritual body with overlay our physical one.
 
This is a good topic agua. I was thinking about it earlier and I always assumed heaven is up in space somewhere beyond the second heaven but at the same time cant be reached by a shuttle or anything. So it must also be in a different realm. One thing that came to mind was the Tower of Babel. I need to go back and read it again, but weren't they trying to build a tower to reach heaven?
 
Jesus says simply that heaven is not out there someplace and is not coming as looked for, but right here in our midst. (in the hearts of those who obey Yhwh)...

He told the scribes and pharisees this and they did not understand.
He told His disciples, and gave them understanding.

If and when our eyes are allowed to see, it is most amazing the angels and chariots of fire around us protecting us who are Yhwh's.
There is a battle raging right now, as long ago, and all along, for men's souls everywhere,
and those who are for Yhwh are immensely greater (no contest) than the enemy.
 
jeff77 said:
This is a good topic agua. I was thinking about it earlier and I always assumed heaven is up in space somewhere beyond the second heaven but at the same time cant be reached by a shuttle or anything. So it must also be in a different realm. One thing that came to mind was the Tower of Babel. I need to go back and read it again, but weren't they trying to build a tower to reach heaven?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that the intention was to build a tower to reach Yahweh's dwelling place ( it might have been ) but to build something spectacular. Maybe they thought like we mostly do in that Heaven is above etc. I don't know. The word heaven is used to mean Yahweh's dwelling place and the sky.

Gen 1:7-9 KJV And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. (8) And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. (9) And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Ok now we see in the KJV the firmament is said to be Yahweh's home if the capital H implies that.
 
His_nee (Jeff) said:
Jesus says simply that heaven is not out there someplace and is not coming as looked for, but right here in our midst. (in the hearts of those who obey Yhwh)...

He told the scribes and pharisees this and they did not understand.
He told His disciples, and gave them understanding.

If and when our eyes are allowed to see, it is most amazing the angels and chariots of fire around us protecting us who are Yhwh's.
There is a battle raging right now, as long ago, and all along, for men's souls everywhere,
and those who are for Yhwh are immensely greater (no contest) than the enemy.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that's what Jesus meant there.

Luk 17:20-21 KJV And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Jesus was talking to the unbelieving Pharisees here and so it seems He was telling them that He was amid them ie. standing right in front of them. Believing in Jesus would give them access to the Kingdom of God which is a physical place on Earth as per Rev 21. What do you think ?

Do you have any scriptures that might imply this unseen world where the spirits live is Heaven ?
 
thankfully to Yhwh Almighty! His Kingdom IS SEEN. His children Live and Abide in Him. (by His doing, not by any goodness in themselves) He also said that ONLY the pure in heart will see His Kingdom, so the unbelieving never see it. (pharisees and others)
 
agua. said:
In the CI thread Butch presented an idea that Heaven could possibly be another dimension here on Earth ( or close by ) and the idea made me think about what I actually know about what/where Heaven is. Butch presented this idea based on 2Kings 6 where Elisha could see the realm where an army was "hiding" for his support.

2Ki 6:15-17 KJV And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? (16) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. (17) And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

What do we know about the physicality of Heaven and where is it according to the Bible ?
Click to expand...
Curious what others think on this, I believe it is another dimension, but it could be around Earth, just in another dimension.

Hmmm.. have to think on it.
 
I think the spiritual realm is another dimension, within us, all around us. Not 'out there' but...at hand.

agua. said:
When we think of Heaven being "above" we usually think about height.

Deu 4:39 KJV Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.


I wonder if "above" can imply a higher state rather than position. ie, Heaven overlays Earth in the same way our new Spiritual body with overlay our physical one.
Click to expand...

I think this is pounding down the home stretch. A higher state being...pure in heart, loving and obeying God. Only the pure in heart will "see" this realm.

Matthew 5:8
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God./

I think the pure in heart are prime candidates for a visitation from Jesus Himself. There are lots of videos on you tube where people give testimony of being visited by Jesus, or being allowed to see spirits. Some are not even believers when it takes place, and in context, I think that speaks of many are called but few are chosen. Some are taken by God for His purposes, while most are not. I think we should all be trying to develop our spiritual senses in our walk with God, and I think this is what the Hebrews scripture speaks of.

Hebrews 5:14
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil./
 
IMO, heaven is a place outside of time where ONLY God and angels exist. If that is considered another dimension, then so be it.
 
agua. said:
In the CI thread Butch presented an idea that Heaven could possibly be another dimension here on Earth ( or close by ) and the idea made me think about what I actually know about what/where Heaven is. Butch presented this idea based on 2Kings 6 where Elisha could see the realm where an army was "hiding" for his support.

2Ki 6:15-17 KJV And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? (16) And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. (17) And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

What do we know about the physicality of Heaven and where is it according to the Bible ?
Click to expand...
I don't know.I do think it is in another dimension.I guess I will have to wait and see :)
 
Stan1953 said:
IMO, heaven is a place outside of time where ONLY God and angels exist. If that is considered another dimension, then so be it.
Click to expand...

The concept of being outside of time has always fascinated me and you might be right. It could also suggest distance can be covered instantaneously sorta like when an electron changes orbitals. I like the idea.
 
agua. said:
The concept of being outside of time has always fascinated me and you might be right. It could also suggest distance can be covered instantaneously sorta like when an electron changes orbitals. I like the idea.
Click to expand...
Yes,the concept of the different dimesions interests me.The fact that an angel could be standing right next to you and you do not know.
 
agua. said:
The concept of being outside of time has always fascinated me and you might be right. It could also suggest distance can be covered instantaneously sorta like when an electron changes orbitals. I like the idea.
Click to expand...

A good illustration of it could be a goldfish bowl. Inside the Goldfish bowl is our natural realm, and time. Outside the bowl is the vastness of the eternal heavens so to speak. Right there, and yet beyond the reach of the goldfish (us).

Or you could hold up a bottle of pop in the air and get the same perspective. We are inside, God is outside (and inside). This would also explain how God was able to take john outside and forward to see things, and then return him. Time travel, you bet. Step outside of time.

Kathi said:
Yes,the concept of the different dimesions interests me.The fact that an angel could be standing right next to you and you do not know.
Click to expand...

Me too sister. Have you ever gotten the feeling that you sensed a presence that you could not see? I have. This could be our spiritual senses working for us and we might not even realize it. Many times we may say, oh that's just my imagination...and dismiss it. but is it really just our imagination?
 
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