Bible Study Here is one for you bible students

[jgredline]

There are many folks who call themselves ''Apostles''
My question is simply this....

Are there still Apostles today? If so can you give an example?

 

[golfjack]

reply

Jg. Of course there are Apostles today. Why? We serve a god of yesterday, today and future. I believe when someone calls himself an Apostle, he probably isn't. An Apostle normally is a messenger, one who establishes churches and ministries. I believe Oral Roberts is an Apostle, but never said so. He is probably one of the most recognized figure in the World today. The late Kenneth Hagin is an Apostle, but has never called himself one. He has established about 151 Bible Institutes around the world, and sent out about 29,000 Ministers around the world. Also, he is a very humble man of God. There are many Apostles in the world, but I don''t know many because they never call themselves Apostles. Oh, I believe Jerry Saville is one too.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[cyberjosh]

Hmmm..... honestly I haven't thought to much on this one before. My first inclination was to say no, but hey what do I know?

How would you know if you held this office? As far as I know there are three lists of gifts/offices given to believers and only one speaks of the 9 gifts of the Spirit while the other two are more exertive occupational offices in which to excercise the gifts. Which one would Apostleship be if it still exists?

 

[Georges]

According to Peter in the Pseudo-Clementines, there are only 12 Apostles. He claimed if anyone other than the 12 disciples under Christ (or, Matthias because he was there from the beginning), to be a apostle sent by Christ, that they were false Apostles. Unless they had the approval of James.

Apostles meaning "sent ones" are representatives of the sender. They according to the Jewish Law of Agency have the authority to act up to but not above the authority given to them by the one they represent...

It is possible that the original 12 did commision sub apostles....

Having said that they would never...never....never preach anything more than what was given to them. Anyone expounding past his authority was considered false.

The Pseudo-Clementines give the rules......

 

[Atonement]

the word "apostle" is used of those twelve disciples whom Jesus sent out, two by two, during His ministry in Galilee to expand His own ministry of preaching and healing. It was on that occasion, evidently, that they were first called "apostles" (Mark 3:14; 6:30). These same disciples, with the exception of Judas Iscariot, were recommissioned by Jesus after His resurrection to be His witnesses throughout the world (Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:8). After Jesus' Ascension, the apostles brought their number to twelve by choosing Matthias (Acts 1:23-26).
The word "apostle" has a wider meaning in the letters of the apostle Paul. it includes people, like himself, were not included in the twelve, but who saw the risen Christ and were specially commissioned by Him. Paul's claim to be an apostle was questioned by others. he based his apostleship, however on the direct call of the exalted Lord who appeared to him on the Damascus Road on the Lord's blessing of his ministry in winning converts and establishing churches (1 Cor. 15:10).
Apparently, Paul also counted James, the Lord's brother, as an apostle (Gal. 1:19). This James was not one of the twelve; in fact, he was not a believer in Jesus before the Crucifixion (John 7:5).It was the resurrected Lord who "appeared to James" (1 Cor. 15:7), he seems to be descirbing a wider group than "the twelve" to whom Jesus appeared earlier (1 Cor. 15:5).

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Apostleship appears to be a gift of the Spirit. At least, a calling of God.


1Cr 12:28-29 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

I once heard that the job definition for an apostle was to plant churches. I suppose that we would call them missionaries today.

Someone that I used to know was telling me once about how a minister that he supported was being criticized all of the time because he was always starting things, then he would not finish. He would leave it all for someone else while he went off to start something else. Then he asked me "Isn't that the work of an apostle? Has the church grown so cold that we no longer recognize the gifts of the Spirit, and even criticize the people who operate in them?"

 

[Oscar3]

Actually Atonement is correct and Georges is almost correct :wink:
As I understand it an apostle is someone who actually new and was taught by Jesus or one of the original 12 apostles.

 

[Georges]

Actually Atonement is correct and Georges is almost correct :wink:
As I understand it an apostle is someone who actually new and was taught by Jesus or one of the original 12 apostles.

I'm more correct than you realize.... :wink:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... ch=apostle

 

[Solo]

The city of New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ, has twelve foundations, and these twelve foundations are named after the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ.


And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:14

 

[Georges]

The city of New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ, has twelve foundations, and these twelve foundations are named after the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ.


And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:14

That's what I'm talkin about Solo....

 

[Solo]

That's what I'm talkin about Solo....

With the exception of Paul being one of the twelve having been called of God, and Matthias having been chosen by casting lots because the Apostles could not wait on the Lord.

 

[Georges]

With the exception of Paul being one of the twelve having been called of God, and Matthias having been chosen by casting lots because the Apostles could not wait on the Lord.

:-D was wonderin if that was gonna come up

So......every other man on earth needs at least 2 witnesses to confirm a truth. 11 apostles who were given all authority under Christ gave witness to the election of Matthias/Barnabas doesn't count? but, Paul having no credible witnesses, who wasn't with the Lord from the begining, and by his own account is counted as one of the 12?

Are you sure you don't want to rethink that Mr. S?

 

[Solo]

:-D was wonderin if that was gonna come up

So......every other man on earth needs at least 2 witnesses to confirm a truth. 11 apostles who were given all authority under Christ gave witness to the election of Matthias/Barnabas doesn't count? but, Paul having no credible witnesses, who wasn't with the Lord from the begining, and by his own account is counted as one of the 12?

Are you sure you don't want to rethink that Mr. S?

I need not to rethink whether Paul was an Apostle or not. His writings are clearly interpreted to me by the Holy Spirit who dwells within me. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit have witnessed to me that Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Thanks anyway.

The Apostle Peter recognized the truth in Paul's writings, and in those writings Paul defines his apostleship being from God. Peter is in agreement. Those that wrestle with the writings of Paul have a deeper seated problem than the Apostle Paul.

2 Peter 3:11-16
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting F10 unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as * * * I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1 Corinthians 9:1
Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

1 Corinthians 9:2
If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

2 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

2 Corinthians 12:12
Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, * (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

1 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

1 Timothy 2:7
Whereunto * * I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 Timothy 1:11
Whereunto * * I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

1 Peter 1:1
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

 

[Georges]

I need not to rethink whether Paul was an Apostle or not. His writings are clearly interpreted to me by the Holy Spirit who dwells within me. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit have witnessed to me that Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ. Thanks anyway.



The Apostle Peter recognized the truth in Paul's writings, and in those writings Paul defines his apostleship being from God. Peter is in agreement. Those that wrestle with the writings of Paul have a deeper seated problem than the Apostle Paul.

2 Peter 3:11-16
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting F10 unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Solo, do you not recognize that the balance of 2 Peter (which echoes Jude) is written contra Paul? and Peter is not in agreement that Paul is an apostle...the text merely states that Paul had written something. 2 Peter has been tampered with in an attempt to say that Paul is not the one whom Peter is refering to earlier in the Chapter. He (or whoever wrote 2 Peter) clearly adds this when it has nothing to do with the rest of the epistle. Just about every bit of Jude (and most of 2 Peter) can a case be made that it is Paul to whom they are refering. I'll break the chapters down for you if you like.

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Self proclaimed....not verified....and certainly rejected by the Ephesians in Rev 2:2.

Romans 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as * * * I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

All the Apostle were sent to the Gentiles...ever read the martydom of the apostles....don't think Thomas was in India to convert the Jews...Peter was the first apostle to the Gentiles as far as I know...

1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

Self proclaimed....by no other....easy to make the claim when abroad, until put to the test....why did those in Asia turn their back on him? Asia, means Asia....a pretty big area, no?

1 Corinthians 9:1
Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Again, self proclaimed....Solo should I believe you if you say Jesus Christ appeared to you in a vision and sent you to the Eskimos without testing...Do I accept you at your word, yet you do Paul.....when you test Paul (really, subjectively without bias) he doesn't hold up...

1 Corinthians 9:2
If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

Here he admits that he's not?

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Clever politicing.....the art of war....

2 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Self proclaimed, no verifiable witnesses...no one, even Paul, got he Damascus road incident right....how many versions are there?

2 Corinthians 12:12
Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Simon the Magician also did the same...and boasted of them.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, * (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Again, self proclaimed and uncoroborated by credible witnesses.

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Again, self proclaimed and uncoroborated...

Colossians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

Again, self proclaimed and uncoroborated...

1 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

Ditto....

1 Timothy 2:7
Whereunto * * I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Ditto...

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Ditto....

2 Timothy 1:11
Whereunto * * I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Ditto...

Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

1 Peter 1:1
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The other apostles have coroborating witnesses to that effect. Paul does not.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

 

[Solo]

The other apostles have coroborating witnesses to that effect. Paul does not.

Unfortunatly, Georges, you are one of those that Peter speaks of as being unlearned and unstable as you wrestle with those things that Paul writes unto your own destruction. It is a shame that you ignore the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when determining what writings consist the Word of God.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16

 

[mutzrein]

There are many folks who call themselves ''Apostles''
My question is simply this....

Are there still Apostles today? If so can you give an example?

Yes - there are apostles today. Why wouldn't there be?

Charles Stanley is an example.

 

[Georges]

Unfortunatly, Georges, you are one of those that Peter speaks of as being unlearned and unstable as you wrestle with those things that Paul writes unto your own destruction. It is a shame that you ignore the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when determining what writings consist the Word of God.

Yeh...I wish I had your special insight :silly: :-D .....Anyone who say's "the Spirit revealed", or "the Lord told me" is suspect anyway....that also is included in the Pseudo Clementines....you should read them.

And, I most ceratinly do not ignore the "legitimate" Holy Spirit inspired books.



15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16

Common Solo....you know 2 Peter is contested as being written by another.

 

[Solo]

Common Solo....you know 2 Peter is contested as being written by another.

But I do not believe that ridiculous attempt to thwart the Word of God.

• Assuredly II Peter is not anonymous and the biographical touches that it contains accord with Peter's known life. He spoke with feeling of being cleansed from old sins (1:9). There is a clear allusion to approaching death (1:13) which was predicted by Christ Himself (1:14; cf. John 21:18-19). The transfiguration was cited as a landmark in the life of the author and of his colleagues (II Peter 1:16-18). A previous epistle sent to the same destination is mentioned (3:1). The recipients had also received letters from Paul, which Peter had found puzzling, but which he acknowledged to be "scriptures" (3:15-16). This last allusion might require a late date for the epistle, since it presupposes the writing and the circulation of the Pauline letters, were it not for the intimate phrase, "Our beloved brother, Paul" (3:15). The writer treats Paul as a respected equal and contemporary, not as a canonized saint of a bygone day.
  
  There is a decided difference of vocabulary and style between I and II Peter. The second epistle is written in a more labored and awkward Greek. Perhaps a different amanuensis was employed, or possibly Peter transcribed it himself.
  
  While the external evidence for the genuineness of II Peter is not so clear and convincing as it is for other books of the New Testament, the internal evidence creates at least a presumption of authenticity. The epistle bears no traces of heresy; there is nothing in it which Peter could not have written; and it is not embellished with biographical details which are obviously imaginative, as so many apocryphal works are. Since conclusive proof of spuriousness is lacking, it will be treated here as genuine.
  (Tenney, Merrill C., New Testament Survey, pg. 367, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.:Grand Rapids, Michigan)

 

[cyberjosh]

Yes - there are apostles today. Why wouldn't there be?

Charles Stanley is an example.

I can't speak with certainty that there are or aren't Apostles today, or if Charles Stanley is one. Although I must say I do like Charles Stanley from what I have read of him. And I know my Dad highly recommends reading his works.

But perhaps you could explain this to me. How would you know who an apostle was? The book of Titus deals more with church heiarchy than any other book as far as I know and it talks about qualifications for deacon's elders and overseers, but never do you see qualifications for apostles. Why wouldn't the church seek to point out who could become apostles or by what signs you could tell them by? I just want to understand how much the NT really says about apostleship and how much we can really assume.

Regards,

~Josh