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Here s another verse I am struggling with. HELP

jgredline

jgredline

Member
Hi Guys.
Here s another verse I am struggling with.

Titus 3:4-6
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


For the life of me, Help. This is what I SEE but I just don't know.
please correct me if I am wrong.
3:4 This dismal picture of man’s depravity is interrupted by one of the great buts of Scripture. How thankful we can be for these nick-of-time conjunctions that signal God’s marvelous intervention to save man from destroying himself! Someone has called them God’s roadblocks on man’s way to hell.
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared ... This occurred when the Lord Jesus appeared to the world over nineteen hundred years ago. In another sense, God’s goodness and lovingkindness appeared to us when we were saved. It was a manifestation of these attributes that He would send His beloved Son to die for a world of rebellious sinners. The word used for love ... toward men is the Greek word from which philanthropy comes; it combines the thoughts of love, graciousness, and compassion. The title God our Savior refers to God the Fatherâ€â€our Savior in the sense that He sent His Son into the world as our Sacrifice for sin. The Lord Jesus is also called God our Savior (2:13) because He paid the necessary penalty in order that we might be pardoned and forgiven.
3:5 He saved us from the guilt and penalty of all our sinsâ€â€past, present, and future. They were all future when the Savior died, and His death covered them all. But one of the simplest, clearest truths of the gospel is the most difficult for man to receive. It is that salvation is not based on good works; one doesn’t become a Christian by living a Christian life. It is not good people who go to heaven. The consistent testimony of the Bible is that man cannot earn or merit salvation (Eph. 2:9; Rom. 3:20; 4:4, 5; 9:16; 11:6 Gal. 2:16; 3:11). Man cannot save himself by good works; all his righteous deeds are like polluted rags in God’s sight (Isa. 64:6). He cannot become a Christian by living a Christian life for the simple reason that he has no power in himself to live a Christian life. It is not good people who go to heaven; it is sinners who have been saved by God’s grace!
Good works do not earn salvation; they are the result of salvation. Wherever there is true salvation there will also be good works. So we read that God did not save us because of works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy. Salvation is a work of mercyâ€â€not justice. Justice demands that the deserved punishment be administered; mercy provides a righteous way by which the punishment is averted.
God saved us by the washing of regeneration. Conversion is really a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17), and here that new creation is presented under the figure of a bath. It is the same figure used by the Lord Jesus when He taught the disciples that there is only one bath of regeneration but many necessary cleansings from defilement (John 13:10). That bath of regeneration has nothing to do with baptism. It is not a bodily cleansing by water, but a moral cleansing by the word of God (John 15:3). Baptism is not even a symbol of this bath; it rather depicts burial with Christ into death (Rom. 6:4).
Our new birth is also spoken of as a renewing of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God brings about a mar velous transformationâ€â€not putting new clothes on the old man, but putting a new man in the clothes! The Holy Spirit is the Agent in regeneration and the word of God is the instrument.
3:6 God poured out the Holy Spirit on us abundantly. Every believer is indwelt by the Spirit from the moment he is born again. The Spirit is sufficient to bring about the glorious renewal referred to. The Spirit is given through Jesus Christ our Savior. Just as the abundance of Pharaoh’s court was mediated to Jacob’s sons through Joseph, so the blessings of God, including the inexpressible blessing of His Spirit, are mediated to us through the Lord Jesus. Jesus is our “Joseph.â€Â
All three Persons of the Blessed Trinity are mentioned in connection with our salvation: God the Father, (v. 4); the Holy Spirit, (v. 5); and God the Son (v. 6).

Somebody help me. It could not be that paul made a mistake and stuck the trinity in these verses.. :o Ohm wait, pauls writings don't count.
yea thats it. Since Paul wrote it, it does not count. Help..
Jg
 
Interesting.

Perhaps you could help me with a few that I find confusing:

1 Timothy 2:4, 5, 6

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

My confusion is 'how can Chirst be 'both God' and THE MEDIATOR between God and man? And note HOW it is worded; For there is ONE GOD, and ONE mediator between God and men, THE MAN, Christ Jesus. That is REAL confusing when we are PLAINLY told that Christ IS the mediator between God and men and at the 'same time' this 'trinity' would have us accept that He IS God. For IF Christ IS God then 'of what purpose' is the 'title' of MEDIATOR? And it PLAINLY states; 'the man Christ Jesus'. It does NOT say God the Son, or the God Jesus Christ, it states plalinly; 'the man'. Real confusing when 'trying to understand' Christ IS God.

MEC
 
Christ is a man, God in the flesh but He is also part of the Trinity.

Christ, the person, reconciles and is a mediator between the essence of the Trinity and mankind- particularly of reuniting man with the person of the Father.
 
For example, if I reach out and hold someone with my hand- then it is my hand that holds onto the unity between I and the other person. The hand is the link between the other person and myself- yet the hand is still mine.

It doesn't matter that the hand is a hand- that doesn't mean it is a separate entity- the hand is still part of me.

In the same way, Jesus is what bonds man to God, just as a hand would bond me to another person. Yes, my hand is a hand and Jesus ia a man, yet the hand is still part of me and Jesus is still part of God. The hand links the enire body to the other person and Christ links the whole Trinity to man.
 
stray bullet said:
For example, if I reach out and hold someone with my hand- then it is my hand that holds onto the unity between I and the other person. The hand is the link between the other person and myself- yet the hand is still mine.

It doesn't matter that the hand is a hand- that doesn't mean it is a separate entity- the hand is still part of me.

In the same way, Jesus is what bonds man to God, just as a hand would bond me to another person. Yes, my hand is a hand and Jesus ia a man, yet the hand is still part of me and Jesus is still part of God. The hand links the enire body to the other person and Christ links the whole Trinity to man.
Click to expand...

Jesus is part of God? Who is the person in the first part of the verse, the "one God"? That person is not "part" of God, that person is all of God, the ONE God. Who was Jesus mediating for?
 
There are things in life that are triune in nature but one. For example: An egg is one but with three distinctions. You have the yoke, the white, and the shell, but all three composite the one egg. Another example: A piece of fruit such as the peach has three components. A peach has the outer layer (the skin), the inner layer (the juicy stuff known as the meat), and the core. All three components composite the one peach.

Other things that we have in our everyday lives that are triune is water. Water is one substance that can be liquid, gas, and solid distinctly or all at the same. The following quote is from the late Dr. Walter Martin: "It is a well-known fact of chemistry that plain water, when placed in a vacuum under 230 millimeters of gas pressure and at a temperature of 0 degrees Centigrade, solidifies into ice at the bottom of the container, remains liquid in the center and vaporizes at the top! At a given instant the same water is both solid, liquid and gas, yet all three are manifestations of the same basic substance or nature: H2O - hydrogen: two parts; oxygen: one. If one of the simplest of all created substances can be three in manifested form and yet remain one in nature, then the Creator of that substance can surely be Father, Son and Holy Spirit - three Persons and one Nature - without any violation of logic or reason whatever if He so wills."

If an egg, a peach, and water can have three distinct things and all be one at the same time, than the Almighty should have no problem. The word Trinity is way of explaining the belief in one God revealed through three distinct persons. Some people get all hung up on the issue of the Bible teaching there is only one God. No where does the Bible state God is only one person, but it does say God is one in Deuteronomy 6:4. The word for one there is the Hebrew word Echad, which means a composite unity. For examples of this consider Genesis 1:5, Genesis 2:24, Ezra 2:64, Ezekiel 37:17 where the same Hebrew word Echad is used and means one in unity, not in number! The Bible teaches there is one Church but many members and there is no problems with understanding this, yet when it comes to God some seem to have problems.
Click to expand...
http://www.afcministry.com/Trinity_Doctrine.htm
 
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 11:7
Go to, let us go down, ..."

Genesis 1:26
"And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: .."

How many do you see here with an image? (two)

Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost? God is a Spirit. John 4:24 Now you have three. Two with an image if they want & one that is not seen, but surely felt by ones conscience.! Romans 8:14.

Another 'very simple' thought! (as a little child)
Exodus 33:20-23 God has a Face, my hand, and thou shalt see my hind parts, yet a face is mentioned twice. The 'us' both have an Immortal eternal IMAGE! 1 Timothy 6:14-16, 1 Timothy 1:16-17,

And the Holy Spirit once again? Genesis 1:2, Genesis 6:3 'My Spirit shall not always Strive with man'.

Notice 1 Samuel 11:6
"And the Spirit of God came upon Saul ..."

And then again 1 Samuel 16:14,
"But the Spirit of the Lord [departed from] Saul, and an evil spirit troubled him." (see on Genesis 4:7 in the K.J.)

One who is sincere always needs the time/frame of any verse, such as, is it before the birth of Christ, or is it speaking of the time/frame of when Christ became the Son of God? Such as Psalm 2:7 & Hebrews 1:1-5.
It does say in the Last Days! Yet, Christ was active in all of the O.T. as well! See Acts 7:38. (This was the God/Christ!) See 1 Corinthians 10:1-4.

Just something to think on. :wink:

--John
 
When God said, let us make man in our image, the 'us' of course is Himself and Jesus, but it is the 'image' that is the key.

The image is that of the Spirit, the seed of our spiritual birth - which was the birth Jesus was speaking about when he told Nicodemus, “You must be born again.â€Â

Right throughout Jesus ministry He makes reference to the man of the flesh and the man of the Spirit, and defines them as being two distinctive birthrights.

In Genesis we read of two foundations for the birth of man but the concept of being born again was not revealed until Jesus came. Thus fulfilling the words of the psalmist when speaking of Jesus ministry, “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.â€Â

Now let us look at the creation of man as recorded in Genesis when God made the heavens and the earth.
Regarding the spiritual: God said, “Let us make man in our image, . . . . . . . . So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.â€Â

Regarding the natural: The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Paul writes comprehensively on this issue when addressing the Corinthians and states, “The first man Adam became a living being and the last Adam a life giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.

And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from Heaven.â€Â

Now let us look at what the scripture records as to the natural man, the man of the earth. ‘The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.’

Then after eating the forbidden fruit, God said to Adam, “By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.â€Â

Because Adam took of the forbidden fruit, sin entered the world and in this way, death came to all mankind - thus condemning the man of the flesh to perish and return to the dust from which he had been taken.

And God said, “Man must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take from the tree of life and eat and live forever.†So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out He placed on the east side of the garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

And accordingly the man of the flesh is blinded to truth and knowledge of the things of the spirit.

However, Paul writes, ‘For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man, for as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.’

It is important to note that Paul is not saying, “all will be made alive,†but rather, “all iChrist will be made alive.†And as Jesus said, “No-one can come to the Father except through me.â€Â
 
The Holy Ghost is God the Holy Spirit, which has no image. Think about what you have posted? Make man in our image, and that is the Holy Ghost & Holy Spirit???? ( I cannot be "LED" to see it that way! Romans 8:14)
--John
 
John - God is Spirit and Christ is the image of the invisible God. Those who are born of God (His children) are made in His likeness. God sent His Spirit so that we may be conformed into his likeness. We are born of the Spirit and as such we are made in the image of the God.
 
Mutz,

So simple yet SO complex to those whose eyes are sealed shut.

Amen, my brother.

MEC
 
Imagican said:
Mutz,

So simple yet SO complex to those whose eyes are sealed shut.

Amen, my brother.

MEC
Click to expand...

*******
Well friend, that is me then. (Matthew 10:25??) I am like Peter and his three time vision from God. When the Word has spoken the first time, Peter and I believe it! :wink: (but 'i' realize that I am spinning 'spiritual' wheels with this post, huh? :fadein:) Acts 10:13-20

Oh' Complex you say? A SPIRIT HAS AN IMAGE! I do not think so! :fadein:

---John
 
mutzrein said:
So John, since God is Spirit what do you think it means when God said, "let us make man in our image"?
Click to expand...

---John here:

I think that I answered that in the above posts? I believe that the verses that I gave show that both Christ/God & what we call our Father/God (before Christ became Son/God/man) had an image as does God/Father. And, as Christ has stated about the Holy Spirit that He does not speak of Himself, but will 'Testify of Me'. (+ much else!)

So, I see three that are God/Head. Two that have an Image, and God the Holy Spirit as Spirit, with no image.


---John
 
This kind of explains how I view things! ---John
*****

John the Baptist said:
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 11:7
Go to, let us go down, ..."

Genesis 1:26
"And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: .."

How many do you see here with an image? (two)

Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost? God is a Spirit. John 4:24 Now you have three. Two with an image if they want & one that is not seen, but surely felt by ones conscience.! Romans 8:14.

Another 'very simple' thought! (as a little child)
Exodus 33:20-23 God has a Face, my hand, and thou shalt see my hind parts, yet a face is mentioned twice. The 'us' both have an Immortal eternal IMAGE! 1 Timothy 6:14-16, 1 Timothy 1:16-17,

And the Holy Spirit once again? Genesis 1:2, Genesis 6:3 'My Spirit shall not always Strive with man'.

Notice 1 Samuel 11:6
"And the Spirit of God came upon Saul ..."

And then again 1 Samuel 16:14,
"But the Spirit of the Lord [departed from] Saul, and an evil spirit troubled him." (see on Genesis 4:7 in the K.J.)

One who is sincere always needs the time/frame of any verse, such as, is it before the birth of Christ, or is it speaking of the time/frame of when Christ became the Son of God? Such as Psalm 2:7 & Hebrews 1:1-5.
It does say in the Last Days! Yet, Christ was active in all of the O.T. as well! See Acts 7:38. (This was the God/Christ!) See 1 Corinthians 10:1-4.

Just something to think on. :wink:

--John
Click to expand...
 
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