Heresy

[elijah23]

I doubt if any of us fully understands the truth, yet (1 Cor 13:12), so for the most part, I don’t think any of us is in a position to call another a heretic. It is true that some people do seem to create a self-serving theology and try to promote it, and perhaps such people deserve to be called heretics, but when heresy simply means, “I disagree with what you say,†then heresy no longer is an issue.

 

[jasoncran]

I doubt if any of us fully understands the truth, yet (1 Cor 13:12), so for the most part, I don’t think any of us is in a position to call another a heretic. It is true that some people do seem to create a self-serving theology and try to promote it, and perhaps such people deserve to be called heretics, but when heresy simply means, “I disagree with what you say,†then heresy no longer is an issue.

so how does even know if one is saved? or a church is anethemia?

 

[elijah23]

so how does even know if one is saved? or a church is anethemia?

Answer to question 1:

If you need Scripture:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 RSV

But you have to reason things out sometimes. You don’t just go from Scripture to Scripture, because the Bible is a very long book, and you can find Scriptures that lead you in different directions.

It’s all about faith. Do the best you can to do the Lord’s will, and have faith in him.

Faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Answer to question 2:

Each of us does our own thinking. We mustn’t let the church do our thinking for us. Don’t follow the pastor. Follow Jesus. If you are uncomfortable with your church, find another. No church is pefect.

 

[jasoncran]

Answer to question 1:

If you need Scripture:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 RSV

But you have to reason things out sometimes. You don’t just go from Scripture to Scripture, because the Bible is a very long book, and you can find Scriptures that lead you in different directions.

It’s all about faith. Do the best you can to do the Lord’s will, and have faith in him.

Faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Answer to question 2:

Each of us does our own thinking. We mustn’t let the church do our thinking for us. Don’t follow the pastor. Follow Jesus. If you are uncomfortable with your church, find another. No church is pefect.

so i should church hop to find the perfect church?

i dont let the church do the thinking and wow, you are ingorant of what was taught then in the protestant side and what solo fide and solo scriptura is.

its solo scriptura and solo fide and also the spirit in the believer, the spirit led bible reading amongst a spirit filled church.

that leads to a well understanding of the word.

god doesnt reveal all that he is in the bible, he does use people to show the gospel.

im sorry, i try not to church hop.we are called to be a member of a body.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

so how does even know if one is saved? or a church is anethemia?

'By their fruit you will know them'

I am hoping the thread I started about how 'Our differences tell alot about us' will end up in a discussion about how we disagree with one another is how we know on whom God's approval rests.

Jesus goes so far as to tell us to regard someone who will not listen to correction when they have wronged us as an unbeliever.

It's all about the fruit of the Spirit...not doctrines alone.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

god doesnt reveal all that he is in the bible

I think that he has.

We see his perfect character in the fruit of the Spirit.

We may not know all the facts about God, but he has surely revealed everything about who He is.

Where you find the character of Christ, that is where you know you have found the people of Christ.

 

[jasoncran]

I think that he has.

We see his perfect character in the fruit of the Spirit.

We may not know all the facts about God, but he has surely revealed everything about who He is.

Where you find the character of Christ, that is where you know you have found the people of Christ.

my testimony and your isnt in the bible?

that is what i mean. and how he uses people and their nature to do things is what i mean.

i can go into a long rabbit trail on the things i learned from what is recorded about king david that no pastor would have ever known. as god should me things on david that just seem to help me.

i was socially awkward and king davids nature was the key in that healing.

theres no recordings of any of the lbgt and how they got converted in the bible with a story of the beginning to the end. just a blurb such were some of you.

when men and women like me(though i wasnt that deep as some) do change their light gives glory to god and hope.

god does use the visible church to do his work.

he didnt die for the bible , now did he.

 

[elijah23]

so i should church hop to find the perfect church?

i dont let the church do the thinking and wow, you are ingorant of what was taught then in the protestant side and what solo fide and solo scriptura is.

its solo scriptura and solo fide and also the spirit in the believer, the spirit led bible reading amongst a spirit filled church.

that leads to a well understanding of the word.

god doesnt reveal all that he is in the bible, he does use people to show the gospel.

im sorry, i try not to church hop.we are called to be a member of a body.

As for church-hopping to find the perfect church, I already stated there is no perfect church. Find yourself a church you like and be loyal to it. Set a good example for the others. If a situation in the church becomes intolerable, find another church. I think it's better to stand and fight, though, than be driven out.

 

[jasoncran]

As for church-hopping to find the perfect church, I already stated there is no perfect church. Find yourself a church you like and be loyal to it. Set a good example for the others. If a situation in the church becomes intolerable, find another church. I think it's better to stand and fight, though, than be driven out.

ok, but i want to addressing something
we shouldnt study the bible and defend that fightworthy position if its all faith?

 

[elijah23]

so i should church hop to find the perfect church?

i dont let the church do the thinking and wow, you are ingorant of what was taught then in the protestant side and what solo fide and solo scriptura is.

its solo scriptura and solo fide and also the spirit in the believer, the spirit led bible reading amongst a spirit filled church.

that leads to a well understanding of the word.

god doesnt reveal all that he is in the bible, he does use people to show the gospel.

im sorry, i try not to church hop.we are called to be a member of a body.

If you are saying “Scripture Only,†then you are wrong. We need to develop personal relationships with our Lord. The Lord taught me not to use tobacco. That didn’t come from Scripture. It was something the Lord taught me while I walked with him.

 

[elijah23]

so i should church hop to find the perfect church?

i dont let the church do the thinking and wow, you are ingorant of what was taught then in the protestant side and what solo fide and solo scriptura is.

its solo scriptura and solo fide and also the spirit in the believer, the spirit led bible reading amongst a spirit filled church.

that leads to a well understanding of the word.

god doesnt reveal all that he is in the bible, he does use people to show the gospel.

im sorry, i try not to church hop.we are called to be a member of a body.

The goal is not to have an understanding of the Word. The goal is to have an understanding of the living Lord. The Word, if you understand what the Word is, helps you attain that understanding.

 

[elijah23]

so i should church hop to find the perfect church?

i dont let the church do the thinking and wow, you are ingorant of what was taught then in the protestant side and what solo fide and solo scriptura is.

its solo scriptura and solo fide and also the spirit in the believer, the spirit led bible reading amongst a spirit filled church.

that leads to a well understanding of the word.

god doesnt reveal all that he is in the bible, he does use people to show the gospel.

im sorry, i try not to church hop.we are called to be a member of a body.

The Lord can use people to reveal the Gospel. He also can reveal it simply by imparting the knowledge directly to us, if we are paying attention to him.

 

[jasoncran]

The Lord can use people to reveal the Gospel. He also can reveal it simply by imparting the knowledge directly to us, if we are paying attention to him.

seldom does that occur.

we in america and the west have the freedom to read the bible. and neglect isnt an excuse.

sorry esoteric revalation via whacky charismatism isnt wise.

sorry we do have the time to read something of the bible and to ask the pertinent questions.

time to watch golf, and tv and have the internet you can find a good commentary easily. pray and letting god lead does wonders. can we be wrong sure but we must check ourselves.

with humility we should read the word.

 

[elijah23]

ok, but i want to addressing something
we shouldnt study the bible and defend that fightworthy position if its all faith?

I’m not sure I understand the question, but remember that it is the Lord we are defending. None of us completely understands the Lord’s will, so we should be careful what we say, but when we see obvious injustice, we should stand our ground. And keep open minds.

 

[elijah23]

seldom does that occur.

we in america and the west have the freedom to read the bible. and neglect isnt an excuse.

sorry esoteric revalation via whacky charismatism isnt wise.

sorry we do have the time to read something of the bible and to ask the pertinent questions.

time to watch golf, and tv and have the internet you can find a good commentary easily. pray and letting god lead does wonders. can we be wrong sure but we must check ourselves.

with humility we should read the word.

Seldom does that occur? You are absolutely wrong.

 

[jasoncran]

Seldom does that occur? You are absolutely wrong.

ah, i have expericienced that

several times

on slavery,. years ago i ask the lord why he allowed it and heres what he told me.it would be too much to ask the children of isreal to stop so i allowed it and added rules.

that was 15 years ago then a few weeks ago i find this.

that slavery as the jews did wasnt really slavery at all. indentured servitude and by the time of christ it was done

 

[elijah23]

seldom does that occur.

we in america and the west have the freedom to read the bible. and neglect isnt an excuse.

sorry esoteric revalation via whacky charismatism isnt wise.

sorry we do have the time to read something of the bible and to ask the pertinent questions.

time to watch golf, and tv and have the internet you can find a good commentary easily. pray and letting god lead does wonders. can we be wrong sure but we must check ourselves.

with humility we should read the word.

I didn’t understand your point here, but we must all develop personal relationships with the Lord. Paul says, “Pray constantly.†(1 Thess 5:17).

And we must not let other people, including “whacky charismatics,†do our thinking for us.

 

[elijah23]

ah, i have expericienced that

several times

on slavery,. years ago i ask the lord why he allowed it and heres what he told me.it would be too much to ask the children of isreal to stop so i allowed it and added rules.

that was 15 years ago then a few weeks ago i find this.

that slavery as the jews did wasnt really slavery at all. indentured servitude and by the time of christ it was done

My point was that the Lord always wishes to communicate directly to us. He wants us walking with him all the time, listening for him all the time. That is why Paul tells us to pray constantly (1 Thess 5:17).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Faith"

This, I think is the MORE important definition to "nail down". The VAST MAJORITY of what's CALLED "Faith" in the religious community is really nothing more than HOPE. And Hope isn't "Faith" and carries NO guarantees like Faith does.

Folks talk about the BAPTIST (or Catholic, or Orthodox) FAITH - when Being "Baptist" etc. isn't a "Faith" at all. it's a denominational franchise.

Folks say they have "Faith" in one another, which really only meant that the HOPE the "other" won't let 'em down too badly.

The Church of Christ (Campbellite) demonstrates NO theological concept of "Faith" at all, and sees it as meaning nothing beyond "Mental ascent", which if "Walked out" equals "Faith".

 

[Davies]

I doubt if any of us fully understands the truth, yet (1 Cor 13:12), so for the most part, I don’t think any of us is in a position to call another a heretic. It is true that some people do seem to create a self-serving theology and try to promote it, and perhaps such people deserve to be called heretics, but when heresy simply means, “I disagree with what you say,†then heresy no longer is an issue.

elijah23,

I think the failure to point out the heretics has led to whole denominations screwing from the narrow way. Why do we have large denominations like Episcopalians supporting the gay lifestyle? There are others like T.D. Jakes who believes in modalism instead of God in three Persons. What about those 'ministries' that preach if you just have enough faith, then you'll get healed, as people with serious diseases leave with not only the disappointment of not being healed, but feel some how their faith is not valid. The minister afterwards gets to fly home in his jet where he enjoys a ten thousand + foot home. When people claim truths that contradict what the Bible says when it comes to the fundamentals, then we can call them heretics, not out of judgment but discernment. The debate has been going on for some time just what are the fundamentals. What must we agree on as Christians? I can't remember them all, but here are a few: Jesus is God; God is a Trinity; salvation comes by faith alone, not works; salvation comes through Jesus alone in His death and resurrection; God wrote the Bible through men. It's possible to be ignorant of some of these distinctions and still be a Christian, but with the revelation God has given us in the Bible, those same ignorant Christians will adopt the basic fundamentals of the faith that are not negotiable. The fruit will reveal the nature of the tree. The person who teaches that all souls go to Heaven is a heretical teaching. If I believe that Jesus was the brother of Satan, that's heresy. He who does not have the Son, does not have the Father. One of the most unloving things we can do is keep silent when the heretic speaks!

- Davies