Heretical Theology? You be the judge.

[JM]

I often hear Finnis Dake called a heretic. Tell me what you think. :D

The following is taken from this book:

THEOLOGICAL SUMMARY OF THE WRITINGS OF "FINIS JENNINGS DAKE" Historical Research Series

by Leon Bible


Finis Jennings Dake is a Twentieth century Pentecostal/Charismatic theologian, who was born in 1902 and died in 1987. All of his work took place in the United States.

At 24 years of age Dake was ordained in the Assemblies of God, in 1927 while living in Amarillo Texas. In the mid 1920’s he attended Central Bible Institute while at the same time, pastoring several churches. From 1928 - 1931 he lived in Oklahoma and spent time evangelizing. Dake accepted the pastorate of Christian Assembly in Zion Illinois in 1932.

While in Zion his church purchased the home place of John Alexander Dowie, and established Shilo Bible Institute which eventually merged with Central Bible Institute. Dake ended his relationship with the Assembly of God in 1937, and joined the Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee).

He stayed with the Church of God over 20 years and then became independent, remaining so until his death in 1987.

Dake’s main accomplishments are two fold, written and visual. He authored the following books: God’s Plan For Man,1 Revelation Expounded,2 Bible Truths Unmasked,3 The Rapture And The Second Coming Of Christ,4 Help For Today,5 Heavenly Host,6 and the study notes to the Dake Annotated Reference Bible.7

Secondly he designed and published The Plan Of The Ages Bible chart:8 which is a dispensational visual unfolding of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Dake was a theologian who had thousands of verses of Scripture in memory. Dake says he received these Scriptures supernaturally at the age of 18, in the month of May, in the year 1920, at two o’clock in the morning while in prayer.

In Dake’s own words he said: “Suddenly, and without warning there came over my being a cool and rushing wind. It seemed I could hear the fluttering of the wings of a dove settling down upon my body.

Then instantly, there came from the very depths of my innermost being the rivers of living water that Jesus promised in John 7:37-39. Torrents of praise and glory began to flow from my lips as I tried to give vent to the unutterable gushings of my soul.

I thus received in a measure what the disciples received on the day of Pentecost. Immediately I was aware of an ability I did not previously possess.

I could now quote Scriptures, hundreds of them and that without any effort to memorize them. I just quoted as the Spirit gave utterance, and also I noticed a quickening of the Spirit in my mind to know and tell what chapters and books, various verses were found in.â€Â

Thus Dake’s ability was a gift from God. The notes in his Bible show that he had a great command of the Scriptures. There are over 500,000 cross references contained therein: more than any other reference Bible in the world.

It is an evidenced fact that during his later pulpit ministry he never carried a Bible.

Dake’s way of doing theology was stated as follows:

"Take the Bible literally wherein it is at all possible; if symbolic, figurative or typical language is used, then look for the literal truth it intends to convey. Statements of fact and historical accounts are accepted as such."

 

[saved]

It is impossible to tell from this. You need to post some of his theological and doctrinal beliefs.

 

[JM]

Sorry, your right. Dake is the father of the Word of Faith movement.

http://www.touchet1611.org/Dake.html

 

[Gary]

The link says it all. False prophets are exposed (often) by their fruits... "By their fruits you will know them"

 

[JM]

God the Father

"He is a person with a personal spirit body, a personal soul, and a personal spirit, like that of angels, and like that of man except His body is out of spirit substance instead of flesh and bones.

"He has a personal spirit body; shape; form; image and likeness of a man. He has bodily parts such as, back parts, heart, hands and fingers, mouth, lips and tongue, feet, eyes, ears, hair, head, face, arms, loins, and other bodily parts.

"He has bodily presence and goes from place to place in a body like all other persons.

"He has a voice; breath; and countenance. He wears clothes; eats; rests; dwells in a mansion and in a city located on a material planet called Heaven; sits on a throne; walks; rides; engages in other activities.

"He has a personal soul with feel-ings of grief, anger; repentance; jealousy; hate; love; pity; fellowship; pleasure and delight; and other soul passions like other beings.

"He has a personal spirit with mind; intelligence; will; power; truth; faith and hope; righteousness; faithfulness; knowledge and wisdom; reason; discernment; immutability; and many other attributes." (Dakes Annotated reference Bible, Finis Jennings Dake, published by Dake Bible Sales, Inc., Lawrenceville, Georgia, New Testament, pp. 96-97)

 

[presbuteros]

No question, Dake's a heretic.

 

[JM]

I'm trying to make an honest study of Dake, I have many friends that are in Dake style churches and it would be nice to know what they believe.

 

[ELI]

Please, don't take this wrong but -- I think anyone going around calling other Christian groups heretic is a heretic.

But -- I will tell you candidly, I used to post on a Dake message board till they barred me for no appearant reason?

I guess one has got to follow their sect's teaching to belong. Being Christian just wasn't good enough for them -- they called me a heretic!

That being said

let's look at the Gospel of John with chapter 8 vs. 31.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

The Greek word for "continue" is meno and is better translated -- "ABIDE".

So the "flip side" of what Jesus just said is if you don't abide in His Word, you are not one of His disciples.

[32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

AND, THEREFORE, IF you abide in His Word, THEN you shall know the truth! :D :D

Jesus Christ, the Word of God, is the truth that shall make you free. Not only will you be free from sin, but you will be free from worry, anxieties, etc., not to mention free from the traditions of men. And this verse does not say that abiding in church will make you free.

Today -- some Churches are actually bondage for many : :roll:

[33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

The word "seed" in Greek is sperma and means by implication offspring. And by the way, actually Abraham's seed was in bondage in Egypt for 400 years.

They just told on themselves -- yes, they were a bunch of imposters ! :D :wink:

God bless

Peace

 

[JM]

Please, don't take this wrong but -- I think anyone going around calling other Christian groups heretic is a heretic.

Your logic is heretical. :

Mt 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Mt 7:20
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Who is Jesus talking about? True believers.

Ro 15:14
And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

We are to admonish one another.

Ro 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Avoid those causing division with 'contrary' doctrine.

I could go on but I think you see my point. The Church must guard against false teaching.

Your peach,

Scofield

 

[ELI]

"I could go on but I think you see my point. The Church must guard against false teaching.

Your peach,

Scofield"


BY ELI

Thank you

I agree -- but how we suppose to know what is true or false? :D

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue=(abide) in my word, then are ye my disciples=(students) indeed;

[32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

God bless

Peace

 

[Vic C.]

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[ELI]

whose interpretation aligns?

It’s fun an Easy -- simply read it :D :D

If someone says or teaches something that doesn’t align with the inspired word of God -- then its bunk.

The question then arises, whose interpretation aligns? : :roll:

Taking the trouble to break words back to the original Greek and Hebrew definitions usually clears things up quite a bit -- for sensible folks away

Also, usually, there is a second witness found somewheres else in God’s word. Figures of speech and percepts used in the Old Testament often match-up quite nicely to something written in the New Testament.

Though some would be surprised – Jesus and the other Apostles quoted often from the Old Testament.

That’s my whole thing
and what I would like to do. That is -- I like to feel I make my stand on the written word but unfortunately, I frequently face internet folks steeped in traditions who seemly reject the written truths even when posted clearly.

Unfortunately, many have lost the ability to read and understand even the simplest precepts -- as a result of life-long conditioning.

Most have only heard the spoken word in Church or on TV – without actually checking things out. And sometimes, most-times, even reading doesn’t help them because they’re wearing rose-colored glasses, and only see and hear what they want to see and hear.

Many christian? posters even refusing to utilize chapter and verse to back-up their theology in posted replies and rebuttals – which are often quite snotty.

I just deleted another Christian bookmark, where I had over 180 full posts (which in my opinion) were well documented and sometimes detailed explanations of Biblical text. Not just one or two words in “drive-by†lines.

The Moderator, who was some sort of Reverend -- absolutely refused to unitize God’s written word to document his stances or anywhere for that matter?

What does his flock pasture (feed) on -- fast food from Ronald McDonald’s?

Strange days indeed

God bless

Peace






.


Internet ELI

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

Sorry, your right. Dake is the father of the Word of Faith movement.

http://www.touchet1611.org/Dake.html

Quote from the link:

Like the name "Jesus" it has no reference to deity, but to the humanity of the Son of God, who became the Christ or the "Anointed One" 30 years after He was born of Mary. God "made" Him both Lord and Christ. The Heb. Is 'Messiah'." (Dake's Annotated Reference Bible, Finis Jennings Dake, published by Dake Bible Sales, Inc, Lawrenceville, Georgia, New Testament, p.1.)

No Biblically solid minister or Bible student would accept the quote above. It is rank heresy and must be totally rejected or our view of Jesus Christ as the eternal Son of God is compromised. To suggest that Jesus became the Christ or the "Anointed One" thirty years after Hs birth is to commit heresy. This is an ancient heresy that is called "adoptionism." Kenneth Scott Latourette stated in his book, History of Christianity, Volume 1, the following:

[/quote]

Apparently this commentator forgot to read Acts 2:36. He also seems to have forgotten to read Luke 4:18.

JMW

 

[JM]

No question, Dake's a heretic.

Yes, he is. He is an open theist.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

That thing about God the Father was idiocy. Sure he's a heretic but then again I am also considered a heretic. :-D

 

[Georges]

This may come as a shock :-D to those who know me on the forum but here is my opinion on the below...I've never heard of this fellow or his belief, or I don't know what the group he is affiliated believes...

God the Father

"He is a person with a personal spirit body, a personal soul, and a personal spirit, like that of angels, and like that of man except His body is out of spirit substance instead of flesh and bones.

I believe that may be correct...

"He has a personal spirit body; shape; form; image and likeness of a man. He has bodily parts such as, back parts, heart, hands and fingers, mouth, lips and tongue, feet, eyes, ears, hair, head, face, arms, loins, and other bodily parts.

I believe that is correct...

"He has bodily presence and goes from place to place in a body like all other persons.

I believe that is correct....

"He has a voice; breath; and countenance. He wears clothes; eats; rests; dwells in a mansion and in a city located on a material planet called Heaven; sits on a throne; walks; rides; engages in other activities.

He has voice and breath and countenance....don't know about the others...except the throne...I assume he walks and moves as Christ in his glorified body moves and interacted.

"He has a personal soul with feel-ings of grief, anger; repentance; jealousy; hate; love; pity; fellowship; pleasure and delight; and other soul passions like other beings.

I think that is evident from many of the OT passages...

"He has a personal spirit with mind; intelligence; will; power; truth; faith and hope; righteousness; faithfulness; knowledge and wisdom; reason; discernment; immutability; and many other attributes."

I personally agree with this statement....I am not a trinitarian and this falls right in line with the God and Christ...both both are different as given the above statements...IMO

(Dakes Annotated reference Bible, Finis Jennings Dake, published by Dake Bible Sales, Inc., Lawrenceville, Georgia, New Testament, pp. 96-97)

As I had said....don't know much about what Dake represents but I do believe in the possibility of how he received his gift....The Jews did believe that the HS did at times manifest itself in the form of a dove....

 

[Heidi]

I often hear Finnis Dake called a heretic. Tell me what you think. :D

The following is taken from this book:

THEOLOGICAL SUMMARY OF THE WRITINGS OF "FINIS JENNINGS DAKE" Historical Research Series

by Leon Bible


Finis Jennings Dake is a Twentieth century Pentecostal/Charismatic theologian, who was born in 1902 and died in 1987. All of his work took place in the United States.

At 24 years of age Dake was ordained in the Assemblies of God, in 1927 while living in Amarillo Texas. In the mid 1920’s he attended Central Bible Institute while at the same time, pastoring several churches. From 1928 - 1931 he lived in Oklahoma and spent time evangelizing. Dake accepted the pastorate of Christian Assembly in Zion Illinois in 1932.

While in Zion his church purchased the home place of John Alexander Dowie, and established Shilo Bible Institute which eventually merged with Central Bible Institute. Dake ended his relationship with the Assembly of God in 1937, and joined the Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee).

He stayed with the Church of God over 20 years and then became independent, remaining so until his death in 1987.

Dake’s main accomplishments are two fold, written and visual. He authored the following books: God’s Plan For Man,1 Revelation Expounded,2 Bible Truths Unmasked,3 The Rapture And The Second Coming Of Christ,4 Help For Today,5 Heavenly Host,6 and the study notes to the Dake Annotated Reference Bible.7

Secondly he designed and published The Plan Of The Ages Bible chart:8 which is a dispensational visual unfolding of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Dake was a theologian who had thousands of verses of Scripture in memory. Dake says he received these Scriptures supernaturally at the age of 18, in the month of May, in the year 1920, at two o’clock in the morning while in prayer.

In Dake’s own words he said: “Suddenly, and without warning there came over my being a cool and rushing wind. It seemed I could hear the fluttering of the wings of a dove settling down upon my body.

Then instantly, there came from the very depths of my innermost being the rivers of living water that Jesus promised in John 7:37-39. Torrents of praise and glory began to flow from my lips as I tried to give vent to the unutterable gushings of my soul.

I thus received in a measure what the disciples received on the day of Pentecost. Immediately I was aware of an ability I did not previously possess.

I could now quote Scriptures, hundreds of them and that without any effort to memorize them. I just quoted as the Spirit gave utterance, and also I noticed a quickening of the Spirit in my mind to know and tell what chapters and books, various verses were found in.â€Â

Thus Dake’s ability was a gift from God. The notes in his Bible show that he had a great command of the Scriptures. There are over 500,000 cross references contained therein: more than any other reference Bible in the world.

It is an evidenced fact that during his later pulpit ministry he never carried a Bible.

Dake’s way of doing theology was stated as follows:

"Take the Bible literally wherein it is at all possible; if symbolic, figurative or typical language is used, then look for the literal truth it intends to convey. Statements of fact and historical accounts are accepted as such."

Your point? :o Jesus said we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Paul told us not to follow mere men who are only servants of God just like any born again Christian. So who cares what Dake thinks about anything? It isn't him who we're supposed to worship.

 

[Georges]

Sorry, your right. Dake is the father of the Word of Faith movement.

http://www.touchet1611.org/Dake.html

Quote from the link:

Like the name "Jesus" it has no reference to deity, but to the humanity of the Son of God, who became the Christ or the "Anointed One" 30 years after He was born of Mary. God "made" Him both Lord and Christ. The Heb. Is 'Messiah'." (Dake's Annotated Reference Bible, Finis Jennings Dake, published by Dake Bible Sales, Inc, Lawrenceville, Georgia, New Testament, p.1.)

That is very true....that is exactly what happened.....

No Biblically solid minister or Bible student would accept the quote above. It is rank heresy and must be totally rejected or our view of Jesus Christ as the eternal Son of God is compromised.

That is not true.....I consider myself, very solid as I study daily and have for many years....I may be rejected in your circles view, but that doesn't make your groups theology right....what if you are wrong?

To suggest that Jesus became the Christ or the "Anointed One" thirty years after Hs birth is to commit heresy. This is an ancient heresy that is called "adoptionism." Kenneth Scott Latourette stated in his book, History of Christianity, Volume 1, the following:

That is not true....that is exactly what happened....Jesus did not come into his own until God gave him the HS upon his baptism....otherwise we would have heard from him long before that event occured....

Apparently this commentator forgot to read Acts 2:36.

That is exactly what the commentator reads into Acts 2:36 "God madeJesus Lord and Christ".



He also seems to have forgotten to read Luke 4:18.

No different....God's spirit came upon Jesus....that is the Spirit as seen in Isa 11:2....God's HS.

JMW[/quote]

Heretic....Bah....hardly! :-D

 

[Drew]

No question, Dake's a heretic.

Yes, he is. He is an open theist.

Perhaps you or someone can point us to material that actually makes a credible case against open theism. What I have seen thus far does not impress me. I am interested in actual arguments, not simple declarations.

 

[Imagican]

If one were to 'completely' disregard the teachings that they have learned from the churches and simply accept the teachings of the Bible much of the 'blindness' that exists in Christianity today would be eliminated.

As stated previous, what has been offered concerning Christ's ministry is exactly that stated in the Bible. The churches have chosen to follow other beliefs to their own demise. Not surprising in the least. Most would rather think themselves 'creators' than follow the one 'true' Creator. And many would love to be worshiped as Christ instead of worshipping The Christ Himself.

Much indication that Jesus Christ WAS a MAN. Regardless of what else He may or may not have been, He was most certainly a MAN. Many would try and pretend that this is NOT true.

If Jesus was a man, then the scriptures tell us that upon His baptism He received the Holy Spirit. What's so hard to understand about this? Unless of course one insists upon the belief that Jesus was/is God Himself. I would choose to follow and believe what Christ told us Himself. That being that God was/is His Father and that He is God's Son.